i dont understand how They can say it is better then Mini in city. I have had 2 JCW cars, a 05 and now a 09. they both never even got close to 20mpg in city. always 26 plus. my 09 and never been below 30mpg. A cooper must get so much better then a jcw. the 1st 5000 miles on my 09 JCW AVERAGE is 33.4mpg. This is only a weekend toy car and most of the Miles are with our mini group so you can imagine the roads we travel.
What a joke that ad is, to get 19mpg in cab S you would have to be driving about like a nutter!
Im so glad we dont get the ‘Escalard’ in the UK… although I wouldnt be at all surprised to see some clogging up the roads near Manchester United’s ground!
It’s a fairly harmless commercial to the MINI brand, nobody in the market for a MINI is getting an Escalade Hybrid instead for a multitude of reasons, the least of which is the price difference.
The 2008 MINI Copper S Auto has an EPA city rating of 23 MPG, and driven VERY aggressively I can easily see it dropping to 19. This is marketing, not a review, and nobody expects commercials to be factual as long as there is no outright lie or misdirection.
If anything, it is a compliment to the brand that the car Cadillac uses as a model of good gas mileage is the MINI.
I thought the same exact thing when I saw the ad. How on earth does a MINI get milage that poor?
I used to work in a job (construction management) where I had a 5 mile commute and would need to drive various places in an office park that amounted to a mile or less multiple times a week all the time. My particular MINI Cooper S is a horrible gas hog compared to many out there going by posts on the web. Even then, I would still get 21-22.
Even if the ad is true, they are taking the worst possible mileage MINI and comparing it to the best possible Escalade, in fact, to a model that is not even available right now. What would the Caddy get highway compared to the MINI?
This is kind of like comparing the M3 to the Prius on the Top Gear track. Interesting, but not much validity in the real world.
I also think its very misleading to start the commercial with a reference to mileage for the hybrid version and then sell the deal on the non-hybrid version. It is these sales tactics that will make me never buy from a company like this. Once again another American car manufacturer must twist and manipulate their marketing or product rather than just engineering a better product that stands on its own merits.
@Lee L: You completely missed the point of the ad. They are taking a car that the public perceives as getting very good gas mileage and illustrating that their car, which the public perceives as getting the worst gas mileage, is actually better. It isn’t aimed at MINI drivers, it’s aimed directly at people who aren’t buying that shiny new Escalade because it doesn’t get good gas mileage.
And I just went and looked up the EPA for the 2008 Copper S Convertible Automatic and it has an official city rating of 19 MPG city.
The Top Gear test with the M3 vs Prius was valid, if you think about it.
It shows that spirited driving negates most of the technologies hybrid vehicles use to push up their mpg, and that in fact the underpowered engine plus additional weight for the batteries, etc., results in worse economy than a sports car.
They should also have shown that on a continuous long journey, a hybrid will also be less-than-fantastic, as you won’t be getting the benefit of the regenerative braking. You’ll just be lugging more weight with a slightly underpowered engine.
I like the idea of a more fuel efficient car, but you really can’t beat careful driving. I’ve had well over 55pmg (proper UK gallons) from my ’03 MCS on a long run. Having fun does push this down (considerably) but then I’m sure a 3 ton hybrid wouldn’t fare so well as a Mini if taken onto the track.
It’s probably annoying to see this ad because you know it’s all smoke and mirrors. Admit it, they’re desperate at the moment to shift anything…
Wow. Thanks for setting me straight, GM. What was I thinking? I’m definitely buying one of those giant hybrid Cadillac trucks. What an innovative and practical vehicle!
Cadillac is doing some false advertising. When you go to MINIUSA’s website, the convertible S is rated at 21 & 29. When you go to Cadillac’s website, they rate the Esclade Hybrid at 20 & 21 and that’s just the RWD. Cadillac does not give EPA for the Hybrid on their AWD.
My 2008 Cooper S consistently gets 32-34 during my daily commute which is combined city/highway. I’ve done one 700 road trip and got 40.6 with my “S”.
Granted there’s a difference in engines between the hardtop and the convertible for 2008. Regardless, Cadillac isn’t correctly stating the numbers as their posted.
paul, when you twist and manipulate to sell, you have nothing to sell. Pretty much sums up all US auto makers. Always a day late and several thousands too much.
Typical of car sales, it’s not false advertising at all. It’s misleading advertising. They don’t actually say the Cadillac gets better mpg’s than a MINI. They say a Cadillac Hybrid gets better mileage than “this” MINI Cooper. They err on the side of ommission, and don’t mention that the MINI is actually a R53 MCSCa,loaded to the hilt with options and driven aggressively.
OH, to the 09 JCW owner, I’ve never seen 33mpg in my 09 JCW MINI. Its always been 26 or less average. But I do drive it a lot and my driving IS spirited. 🙂
Oh, (lots of Ohs today) as far as a car company stating MPG and people getting BETTER then advertised?! That’s unreal. UNREAL! Mini’s are incredible cars!
I’m ashamed at all of you. You know, hybrids ARE the future, and this beautiful piece of engineering allows us to get our solo-commuting butts right back into seat of a nice large SUV without all the icky guilt from the environmentalists. I am so awed by their indisputable facts and figures that I am going right down to the Cadillac dealer right now to trade in my Cooper S!
The mileage on the Escalade is directly comparable to the mileage on the 2008 MSC convertible. The mileage on both is based upon the same standards. However, the comparison would not look as good if they were comparing the 2009 Escalade Hybrid with the 2009 MSC Convertible. The new engine gets better gas mileage. Also, if you are a highway driver the city mileage comparison is irrelevant.
I just want to say that I got excited when this commercial came on my tv. I said…”Oooh look a MINI comercial”, and then was very much irritated when they rolled the cadillac on screen. I rolled my eyes, said “that was lame”, and reiterated to my wife that If I am buying a 60k vehichle, mpg is a completely irrelavant statistic to my decision, Where is the person that this ridiculous marketing would possibly sway?…..
Memo to cadillac….please stick with the hot woman, in heels planting her foot to the pedal to attract buyers.
(I would comment here on it but I pretty much exhausted myself on the topic in that thread, along with some other regular MF commenters, such as Dr. Obnxs/Matt)
1) They picked the right timing for this spot – the only time the hybrid Escalade and the MCSc overlap. As has been stated earlier, this point will be mute in a matter of weeks.
2) They used a comparison that no one would have ever imagined that sparked discussion – the unexpected is one of the best ways to get attention.
I’ve gotten as low as 17 MPG in my 2002 MCS where all I did was drive on the city streets of San Francisco, averaging just over 15 MPH for the tank of gas. I get over 30 MPG when doing highway driving.
When I was in Boston, I did mostly city driving and got about 21 mpg in my ’06 MCS (not convertible). Now that I live out in CA and do a ton of freeway driving, I’ve seen the average mileage go up to where I’m getting about 26 mpg. While it is sad to see Cadillac compare themselves to a car that you can no longer buy (new) from the dealer, I imagine most viewers don’t know that. However, it would not match with the MINI ads that state “37 MPG” I hear on KQED every day. We don’t like to admit it but the old tritec was not super efficient and the most embarrassing question R50 and R53 owners ever had to answer was the inevitable “what kind of gas mileage do you get in that?”
Seems like someone else is now posting with the name Aaron…I might have to switch to some other tag name to distinguish us after all these years on MF…hmmm…
<em>WHAT EXACTLY CONSTITUTES “CITY†MPG’s MEASUREMENTS?</em>
It’s surprising how wound up people are getting about something that’s easy to understand – these figures are EPA CITY estimates.
The R50/R52/R53 engine is much worse economy than the new engine. And the automatic is worse than a manual. And the heavier convertible is worse than the hardtop. And the EPA changed their maths last year to supposedly “better reflect real world”.
Meanwhile, hybrids are biased to do better in the city since they can use their benefits in stop/start driving.
So comparing 19 with 20 is accurate. It’s just not very relevant to us MINI owners …
Who cares about silly comparisons made with gas guzzling, body on frame trucks? I have a lot of respect for GM in “general” and they have done a terrific job in turning around Cadillac from being a dying/irrelevant division in just 7 short years.
But this last desperate attempt by their ad agency to jump start sales of these nearly extinct and overpriced dinosaurs is comical at best.
How many people in the good old days of full SUVs actually cross shopped a MINI and a GM full size SUV whatever?
It seems to me these people are trying hard to throw anything at the wall and see what sticks (or doesn’t). I repeat, full size SUVs are a virtually dead breed of vehicles and some of these dealerships are buried into the likes of 120-150 days worth of inventory supply.
The cheap gas prices we are seeing now will be gone before we can count the days to April. Even if gas is $1.50 a gallon few people have the means and/or desire to own these behemoths. There are always the hard headed types that will cling to their bling bling SUVs no matter what (Even if that means stop putting food on the table and paying medical bills) but other than that, GM is ready to dump the GMT900 full size platform truck into the oblivion of history.
GM here is an idea for you….. collect all these unsold Escalades, Tahoes, Yukons and Suburbans and take them to Russia, India, China or Dubai where they are more likely to get sold for top Dollar. We don’t want your stinking full size SUVs anymore!!!
Also GM, why not compare a very competitive product of yours, like the Pontiac G8 GT sedan (A Co-worker just bought a new one for peanuts) and pair it up against the factory JCW MCS R56. I am very impressed with the Pontiac G8. Fit/finish, handling, power (361HP V8), RWD setup, brakes, interior materials all rival the best Lexus and BMW has to offer. The G8 puts the current 5 series sedan to utter shame!
He paid $27K for his G8 roughtly about the same I paid for my Clubman. It is no MINI, it weighs 4000 pounds but if you want a nice big and extremely competitive car for cheap, the G8 right now, is the best kept secret in the market. What a car!
<blockquote>He paid $27K for his G8 roughtly about the same I paid for my Clubman. It is no MINI, it weighs 4000 pounds but if you want a nice big and extremely competitive car for cheap, the G8 right now, is the best kept secret in the market. What a car!</blockquote>
Except for one little issue… that the biggest cost of ownership is depreciation and in 5 years there will be 5 G8’s on every car lot in town, and the resale will be thousands less than it’s forgein competition.
i dont understand how They can say it is better then Mini in city. I have had 2 JCW cars, a 05 and now a 09. they both never even got close to 20mpg in city. always 26 plus. my 09 and never been below 30mpg. A cooper must get so much better then a jcw. the 1st 5000 miles on my 09 JCW AVERAGE is 33.4mpg. This is only a weekend toy car and most of the Miles are with our mini group so you can imagine the roads we travel.
ed
I want the 30 seconds of my life I wasted watching this video back.
where do they get the 19MPG city for the MCSC? I’ve never seen below 23 (granted I have a ’02 MCS but the ’08 MCSC has to do better)
What a joke that ad is, to get 19mpg in cab S you would have to be driving about like a nutter!
Im so glad we dont get the ‘Escalard’ in the UK… although I wouldnt be at all surprised to see some clogging up the roads near Manchester United’s ground!
Also they will have to scrap that ad when the R57(40MPG) is released! lol
It’s a fairly harmless commercial to the MINI brand, nobody in the market for a MINI is getting an Escalade Hybrid instead for a multitude of reasons, the least of which is the price difference.
The 2008 MINI Copper S Auto has an EPA city rating of 23 MPG, and driven VERY aggressively I can easily see it dropping to 19. This is marketing, not a review, and nobody expects commercials to be factual as long as there is no outright lie or misdirection.
If anything, it is a compliment to the brand that the car Cadillac uses as a model of good gas mileage is the MINI.
I thought the same exact thing when I saw the ad. How on earth does a MINI get milage that poor?
I used to work in a job (construction management) where I had a 5 mile commute and would need to drive various places in an office park that amounted to a mile or less multiple times a week all the time. My particular MINI Cooper S is a horrible gas hog compared to many out there going by posts on the web. Even then, I would still get 21-22.
Even if the ad is true, they are taking the worst possible mileage MINI and comparing it to the best possible Escalade, in fact, to a model that is not even available right now. What would the Caddy get highway compared to the MINI?
This is kind of like comparing the M3 to the Prius on the Top Gear track. Interesting, but not much validity in the real world.
I also think its very misleading to start the commercial with a reference to mileage for the hybrid version and then sell the deal on the non-hybrid version. It is these sales tactics that will make me never buy from a company like this. Once again another American car manufacturer must twist and manipulate their marketing or product rather than just engineering a better product that stands on its own merits.
@Lee L: You completely missed the point of the ad. They are taking a car that the public perceives as getting very good gas mileage and illustrating that their car, which the public perceives as getting the worst gas mileage, is actually better. It isn’t aimed at MINI drivers, it’s aimed directly at people who aren’t buying that shiny new Escalade because it doesn’t get good gas mileage.
And I just went and looked up the EPA for the 2008 Copper S Convertible Automatic and it has an official city rating of 19 MPG city.
The commercial shows where all of the Cadillac customers have gone. You could get a pretty pimp MINI for 54,000. 😀
The Top Gear test with the M3 vs Prius was valid, if you think about it.
It shows that spirited driving negates most of the technologies hybrid vehicles use to push up their mpg, and that in fact the underpowered engine plus additional weight for the batteries, etc., results in worse economy than a sports car.
They should also have shown that on a continuous long journey, a hybrid will also be less-than-fantastic, as you won’t be getting the benefit of the regenerative braking. You’ll just be lugging more weight with a slightly underpowered engine.
I like the idea of a more fuel efficient car, but you really can’t beat careful driving. I’ve had well over 55pmg (proper UK gallons) from my ’03 MCS on a long run. Having fun does push this down (considerably) but then I’m sure a 3 ton hybrid wouldn’t fare so well as a Mini if taken onto the track.
It’s probably annoying to see this ad because you know it’s all smoke and mirrors. Admit it, they’re desperate at the moment to shift anything…
Wow. Thanks for setting me straight, GM. What was I thinking? I’m definitely buying one of those giant hybrid Cadillac trucks. What an innovative and practical vehicle!
Cadillac is doing some false advertising. When you go to MINIUSA’s website, the convertible S is rated at 21 & 29. When you go to Cadillac’s website, they rate the Esclade Hybrid at 20 & 21 and that’s just the RWD. Cadillac does not give EPA for the Hybrid on their AWD.
My 2008 Cooper S consistently gets 32-34 during my daily commute which is combined city/highway. I’ve done one 700 road trip and got 40.6 with my “S”.
Granted there’s a difference in engines between the hardtop and the convertible for 2008. Regardless, Cadillac isn’t correctly stating the numbers as their posted.
paul, when you twist and manipulate to sell, you have nothing to sell. Pretty much sums up all US auto makers. Always a day late and several thousands too much.
Typical of car sales, it’s not false advertising at all. It’s misleading advertising. They don’t actually say the Cadillac gets better mpg’s than a MINI. They say a Cadillac Hybrid gets better mileage than “this” MINI Cooper. They err on the side of ommission, and don’t mention that the MINI is actually a R53 MCSCa,loaded to the hilt with options and driven aggressively.
OH, to the 09 JCW owner, I’ve never seen 33mpg in my 09 JCW MINI. Its always been 26 or less average. But I do drive it a lot and my driving IS spirited. 🙂
Oh, (lots of Ohs today) as far as a car company stating MPG and people getting BETTER then advertised?! That’s unreal. UNREAL! Mini’s are incredible cars!
Here is the NAM discussion on the video.
<a href="http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/general-mini-talk/160430-what-would-you-rather-own.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/general-mini-talk/160430-what-would-you-rather-own.html</a>
I’m ashamed at all of you. You know, hybrids ARE the future, and this beautiful piece of engineering allows us to get our solo-commuting butts right back into seat of a nice large SUV without all the icky guilt from the environmentalists. I am so awed by their indisputable facts and figures that I am going right down to the Cadillac dealer right now to trade in my Cooper S!
The mileage on the Escalade is directly comparable to the mileage on the 2008 MSC convertible. The mileage on both is based upon the same standards. However, the comparison would not look as good if they were comparing the 2009 Escalade Hybrid with the 2009 MSC Convertible. The new engine gets better gas mileage. Also, if you are a highway driver the city mileage comparison is irrelevant.
I just want to say that I got excited when this commercial came on my tv. I said…”Oooh look a MINI comercial”, and then was very much irritated when they rolled the cadillac on screen. I rolled my eyes, said “that was lame”, and reiterated to my wife that If I am buying a 60k vehichle, mpg is a completely irrelavant statistic to my decision, Where is the person that this ridiculous marketing would possibly sway?…..
Memo to cadillac….please stick with the hot woman, in heels planting her foot to the pedal to attract buyers.
For anyone who really wants to read lots of comments on this, here’s 5 pages worth:
<a href="http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/general-mini-talk/160430-what-would-you-rather-own.html" rel="nofollow">NAM – What would you rather own?</a>
🙂
(I would comment here on it but I pretty much exhausted myself on the topic in that thread, along with some other regular MF commenters, such as Dr. Obnxs/Matt)
Cadillac=FAIL!
I don’t know where people are driving, but my ’04 Cooper gets around 23-24mpg mixed driving in Boston (that’s driving conservatively).
All city for me would be 20mpg or lower.
2 smart things that Cadillac (or GM) did:
1) They picked the right timing for this spot – the only time the hybrid Escalade and the MCSc overlap. As has been stated earlier, this point will be mute in a matter of weeks.
2) They used a comparison that no one would have ever imagined that sparked discussion – the unexpected is one of the best ways to get attention.
I’ve gotten as low as 17 MPG in my 2002 MCS where all I did was drive on the city streets of San Francisco, averaging just over 15 MPH for the tank of gas. I get over 30 MPG when doing highway driving.
thank you MINIAC … I have gotten as low as 19-20mpg’s on my old 03 bare bones MC … not even an S … driving in NYC.
again, I beg to ask the question that noody wants to answer in the automotive world:
WHAT EXACTLY CONSTITUTES “CITY” MPG’s MEASUREMENTS?
Driving in suburban, strip mall environments with stop signs or traffic lights at 1 mile intervals is NOT city driving in the real world!
When I was in Boston, I did mostly city driving and got about 21 mpg in my ’06 MCS (not convertible). Now that I live out in CA and do a ton of freeway driving, I’ve seen the average mileage go up to where I’m getting about 26 mpg. While it is sad to see Cadillac compare themselves to a car that you can no longer buy (new) from the dealer, I imagine most viewers don’t know that. However, it would not match with the MINI ads that state “37 MPG” I hear on KQED every day. We don’t like to admit it but the old tritec was not super efficient and the most embarrassing question R50 and R53 owners ever had to answer was the inevitable “what kind of gas mileage do you get in that?”
Seems like someone else is now posting with the name Aaron…I might have to switch to some other tag name to distinguish us after all these years on MF…hmmm…
<em>WHAT EXACTLY CONSTITUTES “CITY†MPG’s MEASUREMENTS?</em>
It’s surprising how wound up people are getting about something that’s easy to understand – these figures are EPA CITY estimates.
The R50/R52/R53 engine is much worse economy than the new engine. And the automatic is worse than a manual. And the heavier convertible is worse than the hardtop. And the EPA changed their maths last year to supposedly “better reflect real world”.
Meanwhile, hybrids are biased to do better in the city since they can use their benefits in stop/start driving.
So comparing 19 with 20 is accurate. It’s just not very relevant to us MINI owners …
Who cares about silly comparisons made with gas guzzling, body on frame trucks? I have a lot of respect for GM in “general” and they have done a terrific job in turning around Cadillac from being a dying/irrelevant division in just 7 short years.
But this last desperate attempt by their ad agency to jump start sales of these nearly extinct and overpriced dinosaurs is comical at best.
How many people in the good old days of full SUVs actually cross shopped a MINI and a GM full size SUV whatever?
It seems to me these people are trying hard to throw anything at the wall and see what sticks (or doesn’t). I repeat, full size SUVs are a virtually dead breed of vehicles and some of these dealerships are buried into the likes of 120-150 days worth of inventory supply.
The cheap gas prices we are seeing now will be gone before we can count the days to April. Even if gas is $1.50 a gallon few people have the means and/or desire to own these behemoths. There are always the hard headed types that will cling to their bling bling SUVs no matter what (Even if that means stop putting food on the table and paying medical bills) but other than that, GM is ready to dump the GMT900 full size platform truck into the oblivion of history.
GM here is an idea for you….. collect all these unsold Escalades, Tahoes, Yukons and Suburbans and take them to Russia, India, China or Dubai where they are more likely to get sold for top Dollar. We don’t want your stinking full size SUVs anymore!!!
Also GM, why not compare a very competitive product of yours, like the Pontiac G8 GT sedan (A Co-worker just bought a new one for peanuts) and pair it up against the factory JCW MCS R56. I am very impressed with the Pontiac G8. Fit/finish, handling, power (361HP V8), RWD setup, brakes, interior materials all rival the best Lexus and BMW has to offer. The G8 puts the current 5 series sedan to utter shame!
He paid $27K for his G8 roughtly about the same I paid for my Clubman. It is no MINI, it weighs 4000 pounds but if you want a nice big and extremely competitive car for cheap, the G8 right now, is the best kept secret in the market. What a car!
From fueleconomy.gov:
Cooper S Automatic: 23/32 (combined 29)
Cooper S Manual: 26/34 (combined 26)
Cadillac Escalade Hybrid: 20/21 (combined 20)
It’s a fabrication, plain & simple. There’s NOWHERE they could have gone to come up with the 19mpg figure.
I’m impressed that they can come up with a 20mpg combined, but who’s want to be seen in one, much less drive one?
<blockquote>He paid $27K for his G8 roughtly about the same I paid for my Clubman. It is no MINI, it weighs 4000 pounds but if you want a nice big and extremely competitive car for cheap, the G8 right now, is the best kept secret in the market. What a car!</blockquote>
Except for one little issue… that the biggest cost of ownership is depreciation and in 5 years there will be 5 G8’s on every car lot in town, and the resale will be thousands less than it’s forgein competition.