MINI Clubman Cooper S Diesel Spotted Testing
Yes the names keep getting longer. But the engines are also getting both more power and more efficient. Behold our first look a the Clubman version of the upcoming Cooper S Diesel. We first told you about the new hot diesel last year about a curious MINI prototype with went down the Oxford production line with BMW’s highly acclaimed 2.0L diesel. Now Autocar is showing us picture of an R55 Clubman with the engine and some new front air intake meant to cool the new mill. According to Autocar output will be around 150bhp and torque could be as high as 250 ft lbs based on the output with the same engine in the BMW 118d.
Also mentioned in the article is further rumor of a JCW version using the engine. As we’ve reported previously the same 2.0L BMW diesel is also at the heart of the 123d which has an output of over 200 bhp and close to 300 ft lbs of torque. However we can imagine BMW would consider retarding some of that torque either across the entire range or at lower RPMs to help alleviate what could be biblical torque steer.
And now for the bad news for our US readers. Due to engineering costs to cleanse diesel powerplants in a few states (i.e. California) Munich has nixed the chance of these engines of coming to MINI’s largest market. Despite MINIUSA’s interest in bringing them over, it appears the ship has sailed when it comes to R55 or R56 diesels in the US.
One note about the impending refresh of the 2011 models. What you see above is no indication of how those cars will look. Autocar unfortunately jumped to some incorrect conclusions with it comes to that part of the story.
<p>Thanks for the update, Gabe, although I have to admit that I’d be a lot more excited by this type of news if there was hope of BMW bringing diesel to the US. Funny…Audi has a TDI ad during the superbowl while BMW just cedes that market to their competitors. Any chance they’ll change their tune on the R60? By the way, does this also apply to MINI of Canada? Just curious.</p>
<p>Yea, disappointing US news. Market is clearly all Audi’s and VW’s. Only viable US alternative toa mini diesel would be the VW golf TDI.</p>
<p>I really think MINI has underestimated the demand for a diesel MINI in the U.S.</p>
<p>VW Golf TDI would come in much cheaper than a MINI D, and would be MINIs only competition on the category. Because VW has pretty much the only market with a diesel in the states, it would be nice to see how many of the hardcore VW TDI owners would consider switching to a MINI D.</p>
<p>I will say I love my 1.9 TDI. 45-50 MPG is always nice, but I would trade it in for a MINI D :)</p>
<p>Having had the chance to drive a TDI think MINI is still rather out of place putting it in the states. Personally I feel BMW hesitates to do this due to the minimal impact the BMW diesels have had in the US so far. I believe the prime market for diesels are small cars personally and very large vehicles. I would never consider a BMW diesel but would honestly consider a MINI D.</p>
<p>Nothing surprising with MINI ignoring its largest market since they have done it for many years regarding the MINI D. Then again personally I still feel they should have brought the MINI One to the states. I feel MINIUSA would do great having a more entry level car here but I am sure they are afraid of loosing some of the brand image as being a prime product.</p>
<p>Call me crazy but I just think the idea of offering competing diesel and petrol engines at similar performance levels a flawed idea. I have no bias against modern diesels. Whether it is a more efficient engine or a higher performance engine if it is better why do I went the petrol at all?</p>
<p>Based on what I have read here about diesels. It would seem to me that MINI shouldn’t even be offering a petrol engine….If you get better mpg from an economy engine, and better torque and hp from a turbodiesel in S/JCW trim then why bother with petrol</p>
<p>Gabe, do you know the classification the R60 will be? Will it be an SUV? Because, in theory, wouldn’t that allow them to have a diesel R60 since SUV emissions are less regulated.</p>
<p>I think the R60 would be the best place for an efficient diesel because of the extra weight and drivetrain losses of awd, but them still be able to keep the great MINI mpg.</p>
<p>If BMW has managed to circumvent the Draconian CARB hurdles with its diesels and the same engine is being used in the MINI D then please explain the basis for excluding it from the U.S. market.</p>
<p>Audi, BMW and VW all offer diesels in the U.S. It is ridiculous for MINI to exclude itself particularly in light of the success of its recently introduced U.S. diesels. The MINI D would likely be snapped up by many consumers, including those that do not necessarily fit the typical MINI buyer demographic. We need it! We want it! We will buy it! Now it’s time for BMW to deliver the goods!</p>
<blockquote>
<p>If BMW has managed to circumvent the Draconian CARB hurdles with its diesels and the same engine is being used in the MINI D then please explain the basis for excluding it from the U.S. market.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>BMW spent many millions of dollars on one engine they could use in two vehicles as a test to see if the US was ready for premium efficient diesels. Remember in automotive terms BMW is a small company. They can’t afford to many many risks. As it stands the X5 diesel is selling well. The 3 Series Diesel? Not so much. As you can imagine Munich is weary of making a mistake on a car that already has razor thing profit margins.</p>
<p>VW on the other hand uses one diesel engine across multiple brand and models. Sure it cost a great deal to federalize but as a much larger company and with the engine spread across many products, it makes much more sense.</p>
<p>Well said and very eloquently put, Harry!.</p>
<p>Hybrid technology is a top gap technology, at best, and the real alternative has been posed by high tech diesel powerplants.</p>
<p>It all comes down to Dollars and cents. And no matter how much spin BMW and MINIUSA want to put in the subject, it is a very poor decision not to bring their diesel offerings here and it will haunt them for years to come. Mark my words.</p>
<p>Also honda will begin to offer diesels in the US. The carbon footprint left by the manufacture of a Hybrid vehicle is nothing to sneeze at…</p>
<p>I meant to say, “Stop Gap technology”.</p>
<p>I guess BMW has to perceive the US market, including emission requirements, as different. Therefore we get a different market strategy. Arguably highly restrained. From the peanut gallery all we can do is continue to make noise and dream on. In the mean time I look forward to any news MF can dredge up about all the good stuff Europe is getting.</p>
<p>I am driving a MINI Cooper Deisel at the moment with stop/start technology and 4.0l per 100 kms is easily achievable. As well the car has more torque than an R53 Cooper S. I am impressed with the car.
However, whats the point of continuing with the Clubman? Now that the Countryman is on the way, it is only a stop gap measure and my bet is that Clubman will be discontinued.</p>
<p>That is a shame… Canucks love diesels and have been buying VW products in diesel-powered form for years and years. I have read that close to half the VW Golf/Jettas sold are TDI models! A lot of people buying a MINI as a quirky but efficient small car would choose a diesel over the admittedly-very-efficient current gasoline 1.6L motor… the 1000 – 1200km range of a diesel veedub is something that holds a lot of appeal to long-distance commuters once it is experienced.</p>
<p>A shame Canada is such a small a market next to the USA that it often misses out even though demographics would strongly argue for a Canadian-only model (demographics more similar to northern EU than the USA in some respects). We do get some lower-cost models in Canada (Cooper Classic) and these sell very well so I had hoped MINI would release the diesel to Canada on that basis. Perhaps not this time around, it seems.</p>
<p>I doubt the Clubman will be affected by the Countryman. Aside from an extra door, it doesn’t really offer anything extraordinary in terms of passenger/cargo space over the Clubman. I think the Countryman will be a flop.</p>
<blockquote> Gabe wrote:
They can’t afford to many many risks. As it stands the X5 diesel is selling well. The 3 Series Diesel? Not so much. As you can imagine Munich is weary of making a mistake on a car that already has razor thing profit margins.</blockquote>
<p>I understand that it is a big investment to bring diesel here in the U.S. However, I would argue, that the Mini E is even more of a big investment, considering the widely known fact that BMW is not making any money from it. It seems contradictory to argue that taking a big risk in investing in some unproven technology is ok, but making a significant investment in bringing a proven, well understood, well established technology to the U.S. that can potentially be used across several models (in both Mini and BMW) is some how too big of a risk to take.</p>
<p>Given the higher cost of getting emissions to acceptable levels, BMW have positioned diesel models as premium. However, the diesel image in the U.S. is unfamiliar at best and very bad at worst. Given the bad image, people are not be willing to pay for diesel models at a premium (and those who are, are few and far in between). If anything, diesel models need to be positioned as a base model (as VW and Audi has done) to gain widespread acceptance — which is the “big risk” because they would need to sell a higher cost product at a lower price point.</p>
<p>For those who are advocating for a diesel Mini in the U.S. are you willing to pay a <b><i>STARTING</i></b> price of US$34K and up for a Cooper S diesel? I, for one, am willing… ;-)</p>
<p>Bummer that BMW won’t splurge to certify the 2.0 diesel, as I would be the first in line for a MINI 2.0D. I have an MB E320 CDI and have been looking at the Golf/Jetta TDI to add to the household. While great cars, I would immediately be putting money into suspension/wheels/tires to liven the VW up. The Audi is not available with a manual transmission, so I am not interested. The MINI 2.0D would have been perfect.</p>
<p>However, it appears that BMW/MINI is skipping diesel power as an alternative fuel for their small cars in the US, instead considering electric power as the future (MINI E; 1-series E). You can thank our goverment for that; with incentives for ZEVs, along with cheap gasoline, it doesn’t make sense to invest in diesels.</p>
<p>Hey guys aint this the same 2 liter engine on the 123d so whats the fuss BMW is talking about, this same engine will be available on the X1 anyway, Aint this some crock!!!</p>
<blockquote><p>Hey guys aint this the same 2 liter engine on the 123d so whats the fuss BMW is talking about, this same engine will be available on the X1 anyway, Aint this some crock!!!</p></blockquote>
<p>Not in the US at this time.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, Audi has made the mistake of not selling the A3 TDI with Manual transmission in the U.S. So they’re not so bright either…</p>
<p>Good point on the MINI E, Lukas.</p>
<p>VW USA is only bringing 3,000 TDI Golfs into the country this model year. Here, in the Pacific Northwest the waiting time is eight months. It’s seems that VW has missed the mark.</p>
<p>I actually don’t agree with comparing the cost of bringing the MINI E to the market vs. bringing diesels over.</p>
<p>The MINI E is basically a project to test the viability of electric cars in the US and get real world data on what works, what people like/don’t like, etc. BMW has no plans to profit from this car, in fact they are probably paying much, much more for the program than what they can get from the monthly lease price. But, it is a cost for R&D and gathering engineering info so that at some point in the future they will be able to profitably sell electric vehicles. This is a limited time exercise to help them better understand an all-new technology and they won’t introduce a mass-market version of an electric car until the economics make sense.</p>
<p>The MINI diesel is already an established product and it is simply a matter of BMW not being able to make the numbers work. There is no reason to “subsidize” that car like they are doing with the E. The cost of certifying and offering a diesel on this car would mean that it would cost more than a JCW. At that price, who is going to buy the car? At somewhere in the range of a Cooper/Cooper S I think it could sell, but that is just not something that is realistic given the extra costs. The profit margin is so small on a MINI that they can not possibly find a way to sell it cheaper.</p>
<p>The only way that we will see a diesel in the MINI is if BMW is able to make a business case for certifying that engine for the next 1-series, 3-series, and/or X1. If, and only if, they can spread the cost over several models could I see BMW being able to make the numbers work for a MINI D. And by then, the next generation MINI will likely be on the market.</p>
<p>Ok So here’s my thinking and BMW pay attention. I am personally in love now and I think a MC D is just sweet. The Golf tdi is a great car but if you want a tdi it’s either 2,4 door Golf/Jett or Wagen Tdi. So here’s where the Clubman could make a huge impact because I love wagens but I also love coupes. If I had a job and was in the market for a diesel and I looked over all the VW offerings and then went to my new Mini dealer ( finally started on the building last week) and I laid eyes on a newly refreshed interior MC D Clubman, oh my ! Throw in an IPad and were married for 60 months. If you could figure out a cheap Awd system to put in the Clubman at that point you wouldn’t be able to pump them out of the factory fast enough.</p>
<p>What’s the point to black-out that Mini badge? Low-profile?</p>
<p>Someone should buy an extremely high mileage R53 with a blown transmission (shouldn’t be hard to find) and drop a VW 1.9 TDI in it. I might start searching Craigs List now.
4,000 for a beat up old R53 + 3,000 for a mileage VW Golf = the only MINI D in the states.</p>
<p>Lame, lame lame on BMW/Mini’s part. They should stuff that 2.0 diesel into an MCS and stand back and watch sales take a nice spike. O and make sure they offer it in thge Countryman too, a natural fit.</p>
<p>Diesels are way cool, I never knew until I drove a diesel Passat in Italy a few years ago- even with two adults and two teenagers plus luggage, the thing had amazing balls and still sipped the juice. I think they shoud reconsider the US.</p>