Ask MotoringFile: Performance Tire Recommendations
Every winter we get questions about winter tires. But we never hear from you about summer or performance tires? Luckily this year Brent finally posed the question to us. Thus we have this week’s Ask MF:
>I’ve got a 2006 MCS JCW with 20,000 miles and am finally ready to get some new summer tires. I’m looking for something that I can drive on the street and (now that my warranty is over) put at least one track day one. I’m looking to keep my R99 17″ wheels but I’m interested in moving to a 215/45/17 rather than a 205 width. Any suggestions? I’m willing to spend a little money for something if I have to. And btw they won’t be driven in the Northeast winter.
Great questions Brent. There are numerous answers out there with various price points. If money is no object, in the “Extreme Performance” category we’re partial to Bridgestone RE series (the RE070s being the latest and greatest in this size) or Dunlop’s Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec. As good as the Bridgestones are (and yes they are good), the Dunlops are great tires for $70 less a corner than the Bridgestones. Bridgestone also sells the RE11 in this size but at $175 they’re more than $50 higher than the Dunlop Direzza. However if you want value than look no further Kumho Ecsta Series ($109 and $116 respectively). Or if you want to go down to the “Max Performance” category (yes it’s not really max if “Extreme” is a higher category) then the Sumitomo HTR Z III tires at $91 look like a great value.
However with all that said we want to hear what you run and or suggest. Summer tires, one track day and great on-road performance. Let’s hear some ideas.
And for those of you who might have heard any of the recent podcast, no, Todd doesn’t get a vote since he bought a set of BF Goodrich with white lettering for his GP.
<p>Kumho all the way. I have never had a problem with them and they handle great. Not to mention, they are cheaper and have a really nice aggressive side-wall design.</p>
<p>The route I went last fall when i dumped my runflats was Michelin Pilot Plus all seasons. I did not notice any performance drop over my OEM performance runflats and they are quieter and smoother ride. They are pricey. But they have a 45,000 expected tread life and I do not need a winter set of tires as these are not justified in my area since our snowfall is not that bad.</p>
<p>I just picked up a set of 205/45 17 Hancook Vetus V12 Evo:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the_michelin_ps2-comparison_tests/hankook_ventus_v12_evo_page_10" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the_michelin_ps2-comparison_tests/hankook_ventus_v12_evo_page_10</a></p>
<p>I’m a huge fan of the Toyo T1R. They’re a little more pricey than the Yokohama ES100s, but I’ve been really happy with them.</p>
<p>Another big question is how many miles do you want to get out of a set… or how many cents per mile you’re willing to spend on tires.</p>
<p>The very low treadwear tires (Star Specs, RE11, etc.) are fantastic for performance… but they last about as long as a pack of Hubba Bubba.</p>
<p>I’m on RE11’s for this summer – I love them so far, but wish I had bought Yoko AD08’s instead – similar performance and significantly lighter… the RE11’s are HEAVY.</p>
<p>I ran Nitto Neo Gen’s last summer – and LOVED those tires. Cheap, very predictable… not in the same class as the RE11’s… but still quite grippy – and will probably last twice as long and cost half as much – so cost per mile is a quarter that of the RE11’s.</p>
<p>I ran Kuhmo SPT’s the year before – good tires, cheap, but I preferred the Neo Gen’s.</p>
<p>I really liked the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 (16″), which I had mounted on my 2003 JCW. Great tire for the money and good for a daily driver, fantastic in the wet, maybe a little less grippy in the dry than some other tires.</p>
<p>I ran 215/45/17 Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1s on my 2006 JCW (I now have a JCW Clubman) and they stuck like glue, but were pretty harsh in the ride dept. Good value for the money, however.</p>
<p>BEWARE of “cupping” in the rear as despite easy driving and a fresh alignment from the dealer, the back tires became very noisy and wore out quick.</p>
<p>General UHP Exclaim 215/40ZR/17 ($82), I will be ordering my second set today from Tire Rack, the first set lasted over 40,000 miles of some hard driving. You can’t beat the price and preformance,quite too! They also come in 205/45ZR/17 ($92)</p>
<p>Blimey makes a good point. You want a track day, but how many other days?! I started writing about the Goodyear GS-D3, but they don’t make them as narrow as 215! The smallest 17″ model is 225/45. My latest purchases have been down in the “ultra high performance” category, so I’m even farther from something you’d take on a track.</p>
<p>I would recommend the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric in 215×45-17, it was the OE tyre on the VW Golf GTI in 07.</p>
<p>If you want stickier, the Kumho V70a or Toyo R888 are great but don’t last very long.</p>
<p>Once my run flats wore out at about 18,000 miles, I switched to BFGoodrich G-Force T/A KDW2s. Nice tire and good handling.</p>
<p>I tired to go cheaper the next time (the KDW 2s lasted about 25,000 miles) and went with the General UHP Exclaims (though I could not find them anywhere near $80 as posted above) and while they have been good, I have noticed a little less grip with them than the KDW2s. Nothign major, but it is noticeable.</p>
<p>Like many, we shed a tear when Goodyear discontinued the 205/50-16 GSD3. We got 3 seasons on the last set for the ’03 MCS, including a few auto-x days. They are finally down to the wear bars, but it is even wear.</p>
<p>On the ’07 MCc, I bought Star Specs. Only have one season on them, but so far they seem to be wearing well.</p>
<p>One of the advantages of running a winter tire/wheel set-up is you go with a pure Summer-only tires and not sacrifice too much in the way of longevity.</p>
<p>What about all season performance tire? Has anyone had experiance with them?</p>
<p>If you don’t mind runflats (and I find these are better than others I’ve tried), the ContiSportContact 3 are a great tire!! I loved them on my 06 Cooper S and can’t wait til the weather warms up to try them on my new 09 JCW Clubman.</p>
<p>I suggest reading the reviews on TireRack as well, especially from MINI owners.</p>
<p>My local MINI mechanic talked me out of going with “extreme” summer tires for the sake of longevity. I ended up getting the Bridgestone Potenza RE760s, which I love. They were reasonably priced (just a tad over $120/tire if I remember right) and they ride great, hug the road, and are pretty quiet as well.</p>
<p>For those who truly drive “hard” on the street and hit the canyons etc., and may hit the track occasionally (sounds like the OP), I have always advocated the Hankook Ventus R-S2 (Z212)… affordable and very sticky, walking the line between a performance street tire and an ALMOST (not quite) track tire. For all that dry stick, they also have great grip in the rain, predictable feel and breakaway characteristics, and they last quite decently too (especially on the 2300lb miata). I have run them past few years exclusively on my MINI and my modded miata with no regrets. Only drawback is they do get noisy as they wear about halfway, typical for this kind of tire.</p>
<p>The Ventus V12 is a good tire in its own right, but nowhere as “serious” as the R-S2 or the Dunlop Z1 Star Spec Gabe mentioned – just look at the highly siped and separated tread blocks on the V12 – bit of a squishfest going on there, relatively speaking… :)</p>
<p>Of course, Hankook discontinued them last year and replaced them with the R-S3, which is no longer available in 215-45-17 so you would need to go to 225-45-17, getting kind of tall for the wheelwell clearance (though I think a number of people successfully run that size even with coilovers?). So I would suggest looking at the Dunlop Start Spec (my first choice) or possibly an equivalent Kumho (MX, XS).</p>
<p>I’m really happy with my Pirelli PZeros. Bonus – for those of us who actually like them, they are available in RunFlats too. :)</p>
<p>I had the Pirelli PZeros on my car as well; non run-flats. 215/45/17</p>
<p>I switch from my stock Pirellis (which stuck like glue considering they were 175s) but only lasted 26K miles to Yokohama S Drives – Great looking tire with high tread wear rating and decent traction. I’m running 15s though can’t remember if they have them in your size.</p>
<p>My last three tires purchases for my 05 JCW have been in order and all in the 215-45-17 size: Kumho SPT which were too soft in the side walls but were quiet and had a reasonable tread life. Yokahama S Drives which wore out too fast and got really loud. Currently running Bridgestone RE 760 which are wearing well and exhibit very good grip in both the wet and the dry. I guess it all depends on what you want from your tire in a prioritized way of performance vs comfort vs longevity.</p>
<p>SUMITOMO HTZ-III
Best in class tire, reviewed by Tire Rack.</p>
<p>Anything on tirerack that is on sale. I am am on my 8th set of tires. Current Hankook V12 Evo’s.</p>
<p>Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110</p>
<p>Good tires, inexpensive, and I have 3 track days on them so far and they have held up great. They stick in the twisties too…</p>
<p>Be careful moving away from OEM size tyres. These were chosen by the designers/factory for best case scenario.</p>
<p>Comparison of 205 vs 215 45 profile results in a change to circumference and revs per mile;
205 = 76.21 inch and 857.3 rev p mile = 60 mph
215 = 77.31 inch and 845.1 rev p mile = 59.1 mph
A 1.43% difference. Not much I know.</p>
<p>Rim width suitability;
205 = 6.5 to 7.5 inch
215 = 7 to 8 inch</p>
<p>Whether the extra width provides any advantage or disadvantage is arguable.</p>
<p>I guess if the factory thought 215 were a better fit then they would have been OEM spec’ed.</p>
<p>Comfort, handling, and noise all have to be factored into choice between sizes and makes.</p>
<p>If you’re looking for 205/45 R17 size, Kumho Ecsta AST are pretty sweet as far as I’m concerned for $70 a corner. I couldn’t tell you about the 215 size though.</p>
<p>Just one point to follow up GregW above:
The factory drew a compromise they were pleased with at 205-45-17 on the stock rim width – it is not the best compromise for all drivers, just for most. As an interesting exercise, compare the overall diameter / speedo error for all 3 OEM rims and corresponding tire sizes (15″, 16″, 17″ wheels)… You might be surprised the range of variation BMW already allowed from one “official size” to another.</p>
<p>I have Falken ZE 912 215/45-17. Good grip and quiet. I do not like the 215 because they rub in hard corners, my R53 has Eibach Pro-Kit Springs and Koni struts. They only lasted 21k miles, guarantee is 40k. Tire store told Minis are hard on tires. I don’t know about that I plan on calling Falken.</p>
<p>I have to say I have been in favor of Kumho’s having both the escta spt and asc on my last 2 mini’s. This time around I tried the Hancook ventus v12 evo’s and WOW. I recommend them over the Kumho’s. They seem to have a slight edge all around and add better ride / noise quality to it. I have them in the 205/45 17 size and they are absolutely wonderful.</p>
<p>I didn’t love the Kumho’s when I had them on my A4, but they were overall pretty decent. Their wet weather performance really went away after they were 50% worn…I know wet grip goes down as tires wear, but what I experienced was pretty abrupt.</p>
<p>On my MINI S, I had Sumitomo HTR ZII’s and I really liked them…good grip, excellent wet weather grip, decent wear, fairly low noise (compared to the stock Goodyears)…would have bought them again.</p>
<p>On my TSX, my summer tires are Sumitomo HTR ZIII’s and I can’t say enough about them…great tires. A little quicker wearing than the II’s, but this car IS a bit heavier. Better all around grip than the II’s also. They are definitely getting louder as they wear, but still not tragic. Their wet weather performance has also declined at a steady rate.</p>
<p>To be honest, I really changed my mind on the pricier tires…I had Dunlop SP9000’s on my first A4 and they were pretty amazing tires. Their ultimate grip was the best I ever experienced (short of the Yoko A008’s I had on my Vette…essentially racing tires, really), but they were not forgiving AT ALL. Sure they would stick past most other tires’ limits, but when they let go, they LET GO. The breakaway with the Kumhos and Sumitomos is a lot more progressive, which is a lot more fun to me, at least on the public roads on which we all are forced to drive 95% of the time. With the Kumhos and Sumitomos, the transition from gripping to sliding was smooth, not abrupt, which gives a much better opportunity to collect the car back up…and also lets you factor the bits of slippage into your cornering….fun! The difference between the Kumho and Sumitomos is that the Sumi’s have better overall grip, wear better and are a trifle quieter.
I</p>
<p>215/40/17 Dunlop Star Specs or Yokohoma AD08’s. 40 series will net you a shorter gearing affect, seems like a plus plus- wider patch + peppier acceleration. star specs are the bang for the buck tires and the ad08’s give a bit more refined ride. if you want to keep with 45 series (will be taller than 205/45) then Kumho XS (bang for the buck tire) or Bridgestone Potenza’s (sport + refinement) are good choices too. can’t really go wrong with either.</p>
<p>I have P Zero run flats and despite conservative driving, at 13000 miles, i can tell they arent going to last long.</p>
<p>LOVE the Sumitomo HTRZ-III and for that price you can’t beat them. On the track they are very grippy, although I think they get grainy but then come back a lap or 2 later. On the rain they are phenomenal, very quick, very predictive. They wear ok. Have had then for 2 events and a few thousand miles, still going strong. I will likely go track only tires soon but will get these in the future for the street.</p>
<p>I have an 02 MCS that I bought when the new MINI came out. The car has seen a track day or three a year along with a few autocrosses in addtions to it’s normal duties. I bought the KDW’s when the run flats wore out. That tire was good and handled several track days. In 2008 I went with the Dunlop Star Spec as it was the “hot” street tire for autox and was very competitively priced. Especially when factoring in the low cost it is a great tire for combo street/track/autox.</p>
<p>Jim</p>
<p>I have been very happy with the Falken Azenis RT-615. Very sticky considering that it has a treadwear of 200. Does a great job wet or dry, even does a creditable job in the lower temperatures (low 40s or high 30s).
If you are looking for a high performance tire then tread life will always be an after thought. You have to give up grip to increase tread life.
The RT-615 is made as a road legal race tire with full D.O.T. certification. It qualifies, under SCCA rules, as a road legal competition tire.
The tread life that I got out of mine was about 4,300 miles that included 6 track days, 18 days of auto-x, plus 2,800+ miles on public streets. I was very happy that they lasted as long as they did and had good grip right to the end.
They have introduced a new tire, the RT-615K, that is supposed to be even better. Will definitely be getting a set of these for this year.
<a href="http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615k_t.htm#sizes_and_prices" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615k_t.htm#sizes_and_prices</a></p>
<p>I have 25,000 kms on my Kumho tires 205 16’s. Expect to get another 15,000 kms from them. Couple of track days every year. Don’t let them see ice and snow. Rain and slush is OK though. Great bang for the buck but a little noisy.</p>