MINI May Offer Torque Steer Elimination Retrofit

<p>If it’s just software, I’d consider it to have been bad programming to start with… Meaning they should consider this a “bug fix”, not a “retrofit” or “new feature” and it should be part of the standard software upgrade, and performed on any car that’s brought in for service at no additional charge.</p>

<p>Although I wouldn’t expect it to be free (it still takes time from the dealership and a tech to install the new software), I do recall when I bought my first gen MINI, how one of the benefits of the car was it’s easily upgradeable software which would allow MINI/BMW to update your car with new features.</p>

<p>I did have the dealership turn off the running lights, activate the auto-lock, and set the time that my headlights were on after the car turned of longer than standard, so the sales pitch was not all hyperbole. I’m just not sure that changing the way the car drove would be in the scope of the original bullet point.</p>

<p>Very cool of MINI to be considering this seriously enough that they are publicly canvassing owners. Possibly precedent-setting for car industry… as more car systems can be “tuned” via software would be a strong sign of goodwill for OEMs to adopt such an “Operating System support” model as in personal computer / smartphone industry. Would also allow OEMs to make more such e-upgrades as “running change” software upgrades to keep customers enthused between new car purchases.</p>

<p>how about they give us that and the software upgrade the 2011 gets with more power. the extra power is just software isn’t it? i think most people would pay 200-300 for power and the steering fix.</p>

<p>Cheers Chad – I couldn’t agree more.</p>

<blockquote><b>Gabe</b>: So that begs the question; if you have a 2007-2010 MCS, what would you pay for a software update to eliminate torque steer?</blockquote>

<p>It does not “beg the question,” it raises the question.    <i>/peeve</i></p>

<p>If the torque steer is a safety issue fixed without any parts costs, then it should be provided free at the dealer (scheduled at the mutual convenience of dealer and owner). If this isn’t a safety fix, then MINI should charge.</p>

<p>BMW have ruined the MINI – I test drove one for a couple of days recently – Just horrible – The “no feel” steering is just one of the problems on a’10 MCS. The car is no longer a MINI, but a mini BMW, with the price to match.</p>

<p>If a software update fixes it, then I doubt it was torque steer in the first place.</p>

<p>Love it! Can I sign up now?! 😉 Far too much torque steer in my ’10 JCW Clubman — not just on corners but from a stand still. Kind of embarrassing sometimes when ‘taking off.’ As a JCW customer I expect the upgrade and as an S owner I would pay a $100+/- fee to eliminate.</p>

<p>So, the software reduces the torque the engine produces? After reading this with teh mentions of steering software, I almost wonder if they somehow were using teh electric steering rack to bias the steering in the opposite direction to compensate for it.</p>

<p>Gabe, I’m with you on theses comments.</p>

<p>You knew you were buying a FWD vehicle, unless, I dunno, you didn’t test drive it first FWD + some punch = torque steer. My old 02 Honda Civic Si (EP3) has torque steer and produces nowhere near as much torque as the MINI in the driveway.</p>

<p>Some of these responses have been reasonable, but others…claiming bad design and the like. If it’s bad design it’s been bad design across the industry for the past 50 years or so. I think it’s great that MINI is even floating this idea to the public before doing it, if they do it at all. I’d hate to see what people would say about torque steer after driving a Ford Focus RS.</p>

<p>@Versus – Probably because the burble is also controlled by the software.</p>

<p>I would pay for it, if they also included other SW updates as well. I would assume its all one SW image, so would I also get auto-up windows? I’m in a 2007 R56 with JCW pkg.</p>

<p>Would you have to have DSC for the retrofit? And would they need a different version if you have LSD?</p>

<p>So I guess this will share the same platform as the DSC which reads the position of the steering wheel and gradually let off the throttle when max throttle/ power range is hit. Included with the software.</p>

<p>This is not a fix for something that is broken. This is akin to any other improvement that a future model may have. Should owners of 2010 MCS’s get Valvetronic for free? Or, more specific to software, should people who bought Windows XP get Vista or 7 for free?</p>

<p>When people bought their current MINI’s, they either knew there was torque steer or they should have driven it more. In the same sense, they knew that the got 118hp/172hp/208hp and that future years would get more. You got what you paid for, and if you want something different, you shouldn’t be surprised that you have to pay for it.</p>

<p>To be clear, this is different than something that is broken or not as advertised. If your timing chain rattles, your sunroof sticks, or your fuel pump doesn’t work, those need to be fixed because they’re not working as sold/advertised.</p>

<p>The XP/Vista/Windows7 software analogy doesn’t hold water to me. Microsoft released a number of free patches and service packs for XP. New functionality and performance improvements were often included in these updates.</p>

<p>Say you bought a hot dog off a street vendor and as you’re walking away he puts out a new flavor of mustard. You turn around and ask for some of this mustard and he says “sorry, you’ll need to buy another hot dog if you want this mustard”. Is he “entitled” to say that? Sure. Is it good for business? I don’t think so.</p>

<p>This analogy is flawed as well since, a) the mustard is a finite, consumable resource, and b) the time from initial purchase to “update” is extremely short.</p>

<p>In MINI’s defense the dealers may need to be compensated for the time it takes to install the update (not to mention the engineering effort to develop the update).</p>

<p>For me what it comes down to is this: is MINI attempting to charge whatever the market will bear? For an already pricey car with a lot of pricey options this strikes me as a practice that will not engender any goodwill amongst the enthusiasts out there. And I would imagine it’s the enthusiasts who would be most interested in this update.</p>

<p>Pissing off the people most enthusiastic about your product just seems dumb. If the update can be done in a minimal amount of time just charge a minimal fee.</p>

<p>I have grown used to the torque steer and drive accordingly, the existence is one personality trait of my ’08 MCS.</p>

<p>The only time I regret having to account for the presence is under full throttle and a partition exists in the road on a bank/curve (i.e. on an elevated on/off ramp).</p>

<p>If I know the partition is there from past experience, I back off the throttle a bit to compensate and that keeps the MCS on target.</p>

<p>However, if the partition is unexpected, it does jerk the wheel – a potentially dangerous situation if you are not dialed in.</p>

<p>To answer Gabe’s question, I may be interested in paying for an hour of labor to tame the torque steer. Personally, I would like to get someone’s first hand experience/comparison on how the (’10 or earlier) MCS drives/handles pre/post operation before making the change.</p>

<p>I would rather live with the torque steer if the solution neuters the MCS to the point of where it no longer drives like a MINI. I think Gabe’s review of the 2011 MCS is compelling, but does that experience translate over to the 2010, etc.?</p>

<p>@ James Irmiger: “playing nice” =/= “playing dumb” i.e., I never implied anyone’s OPINIONS are “stupid” (opinions are all equally valid, they are entirely subjective after all), but I do call out some of the EXPECTATIONS (which are not the same as opinions) as betraying a sense of entitlement.</p>

<p>Look… threads on “buyer’s remorse” and “demands” that manufacturers offer retrofit / upgrade options at free / low cost are actually quite common in the world of computers / electronics. This is partly due to the ever-shortening product cycles working to make whatever you buy obsolete… coupled with bombardment of advertising and enthusiast forums we all love to frequent which make us aware of all the changes/upgrades manufacturers release. As a result, the line between “functionality defect correction” and “functionality upgrade” has become quite blurred… and perhaps was grey in the first place since we are not as used to having this discourse in the automotive domain (because as I said, MINI is pioneering here with this potential functionality upgrade).</p>

<p>My point (and I believe Blainstang’s and others’ above) is that we need a working definition of what constitutes a “functionality defect correction” (e.g., any item typically covered by warranty) and “functionality upgrade” (e.g., retrofitting the OEM AUX-IN to your stereo; dealer-installed JCW Suspension).</p>

<p>What Lee said +1</p>

<p>Some people will always say the same thing: “Torque steer is inherent in any powerful front wheel drive car.” However, the first generation MINI MCS had virtually no torque steer. Even the 300+ hp modified MINIs I drove did not exhibit any torque steer. I could let got of the steering wheel, floor it and the car drove straight as an arrow, even when changing gears, nothing. I was amazed and saddened to find out what torque steer actual was first hand. That didn’t happen until I purchased a 2007 MCS. What a difference between the 03 and 07! This car became a beast to handle when pushed hard. I can’t believe we’re going backwards in technology with newer versions of the MINI (don’t get me started on the stereo!) Seeing as how BMW/MINI knew how to make a FWD car without torque steer way back in 02, then “add” it back in in the 2nd gen, I’m really at a loss. Call the “add” a “defect” or “an option” or “get used to it, all powerful FWD will have this” to make yourself happy, but I will call it a “defect” that should be repaired by MINI.</p>