Today we’re introducing a new feature at MotoringFile. As a result of the many enthusiastic responses we received to our call for a full-time writer, we decided to add a few part-time contributor positions for people willing to help us expand our message (and hopefully reach new followers). Below is the first of what we hope will be many in a series of new opinion pieces, news and reviews. Our first example is brought to you by Paul Mindemann, a web company vice president, former auto magazine editor and self-proclaimed car nut out of Lancaster, PA.
The topic is DSG vs the manual transmission. For those who don’t know DSG is Volkswagen’s revolutionary dual clutch transmission that quickly become the gold standard in terms of transmissions for sporty cars ranging from the Golf GTI to the Bugatti Veryon to (within a couple of years) every Ferrari made. However it’s worth noting that most of the automotive world knows it as the DCT (dual clutch transmission). For further background check out wikipedia’s page on DSG (and BMW’s equivalent DCT)
A Case for the Manual Transmission: How living with a dual clutch transmission made me a manual transmission evangelist.
I’m a guy in my mid-30s. When I was in high-school, saying you drove a car with a manual transmission implied you had knowledge and skill that not everyone else had. It showed you had enough interest in driving to overcome fears of stalling at a stoplight, on an incline, and with traffic behind you just waiting to provide some aural motivation. After high-school, a manual-equipped hatchback then became my ticket to amateur racing thanks to local SCCA autocross events. But now, some years later, the very same car rags that formerly encouraged youthful exuberance by way of stick shift are telling me I need to get over it that semi-automatic transmissions are the key to automotive nirvana. I’ve since discovered first hand why they’re wrong.
On paper, it all works. So-called semi-automatic transmissions (or clutch-less manuals) have been around since about 1912 when it was first experimented with in a Le Mans racer. By 1995, every Formula One car used some type of semi-automatic transmission. The reason for its use in racing is simple electronics allow shifting that is both smoother and quicker than what is possible by humans. And in modern iterations, so-called ‘dual-clutch’ versions literally use two clutches which enable the system to pre-select the next gear, further reducing shift time. In the case of the VW Group’s DSG version, that shift time is down to about 8 milliseconds. Also, since these are basically manual transmissions with the clutch removed, there’s no torque converter to sap power or fuel economy like a traditional automatic. So far, so perfect. Right?
Indeed, it all sounded so good that when VW was getting ready to bring their VR6-powered, DSG-equipped R32 back to the states in 2008, I signed-up for the very first shipment. I knew it would be a different experience than the classic, 5-speed Porsche I drove then, or from the dozen or so other manual-equipped cars I’d owned over the years. But in my mind, I knew it could shift faster than a Ferrari Enzo and that was enough. After all, this was the future.
But sometimes the future sucks. After less than a year of ownership, I sold the R32. Truth be told, it took far less time to realize clutch-less manuals have a long way to go before replacing a proper manual. Here are a few reasons why:
Driver involvement (or the lack thereof)
Quite simply, semi-automatic transmissions are less fun to drive than regular manual transmissions. Your left leg is basically dead weight, and your hands never need to leave the wheel. That pretty much means anyone can drive them. But is that good? Do we really want a society filled with drivers who are so bored they’re interested in doing anything but driving?
Your steering ratio is not the same as a race cars
Rally drivers use semi-automatic transmissions because they always need their hands on the wheel. So what’s good for them must be good for the average driver, right? Not necessarily. Rally cars have different steering ratios, so fewer inputs result in larger motions. In a street car, you don’t want a twitchy, cell-phone-entranced driver making sudden course changes when they become distracted, so the ratios are different. That means that driving a road car with paddles on the steering wheel can often result in stalks that are in any position other than 10 and 2. And unless you have rubber-band arms, that means your hands are very often nowhere near the shift paddles.
It’s all about speed or is it?
One huge supposed benefit is the shift speed of the dual-clutch variety of semi-automatic transmissions. But what they don’t tell you is that if you select a gear other than the one the system predicts—say, in an emergency avoidance maneuver—the delay goes from 8 milliseconds all the way up to 1,100 milliseconds. That’s a noticeable delay, and one you may not expect.
It’s not as efficient as you’d think
Let’s clear this up right away dual clutch varieties of semi-automatic transmissions are way more efficient than regular automatics. But they’re actually heavier than comparable manuals (by about 65 lbs, depending on type), they have worse overall mechanical efficiency, and in many applications, do not exceed their manual transmission counterparts for mileage.
It’s not a seamless as you’d expect, either
This was perhaps my biggest single gripe with my DSG-equipped R32. It would simply not launch from a standstill without hesitation, regardless of drive mode. Many VW owners initially thought this must be a malfunction in the software or some other part, but it turned it was simply the way these systems work. Similarly, downshifts were not as fast as expected either.
For a little less than a year, I bought into what the car magazines had told me literally. I told myself that these semi-automatics were the wave of the future, and that I just needed time to get used to it. In retrospect, I find myself wondering why I should have ever tried to get used to a system that had such noticeable jerkiness, perceptible lags in shift time, questionable weight and efficiency and a loss of engagement, involvement and interest.
While there are motorists of all types in the MINI ranks, it’s fair to say that those who own MINIs choose to be different, and choose to have fun with their choice of transportation. One can certainly have fun in a MINI without a manual transmission, but that extra bit of involvement brought by the third pedal and a stick on the floor should be cherished for the extra connection it creates. And for all the things it still does better than anything else.
<p>Is it me, or is this only the first part of the text..?</p>
<p>Ah. Something is going wrong with the HTML. I’ll report through the contact form so someone may possibly see sooner.</p>
<p>not only you…..</p>
<p>The “writer” might also want to define the acronym DSG for those of us who are stupid.</p>
<p>DSG = Direkt Schalt Getriebe. It’s basically translated to Direct Shift Gearbox.</p>
<p>Good start… but what is the rest of the story?</p>
<p><b>Updated with the rest of the story.</b></p>
<p>No idea what happened but it’s all there now.</p>
<p>Nice article – welcome to the new writer.</p>
<p>Great article Paul and for me the only way to drive a MINI is with a manual transmission.</p>
<p>I have had standard shift ever since I started driving (with the exception of a couple of minivans when the kids were at that age) and just recentky had two manual Cooper S’s, which I loved. I just switched out to a Mitsubishi Ralliart, which has their version of this, the TC-SST (twin clutch-something…). I did this for three reasons:
1) We want to get down to one car. I love manual, my wife won’t drive one (although she can). An auto-manual is the best compromise.
2) I have had some interesting medical issues which have left me with a left leg which plays up every now and again, getting weak or going numb temporarily. I didn’t want to get stuck away from home having shifting difficulties so again this was a good solution.
3) I tried a Cooper S Clubman with the regular auto-box with paddles, and it was horrid.</p>
<p>I have really enjoyed this transmission. It gives me control when I need it, and let’s me just zone out on the commute. The Sport mode does great downshifts into corners, even doing nice throttle blips. I realize they are not for everyone, but I have been very happy and would get another car equipped with this in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>I’m holding out for the WRC replica MINI with this kind of transmission which I am hoping will show up sometime. When it does, I’m there…</p>
<p>interesting point on the steering ratios, but are the paddles mounted to the steering column or the actual hub? i was under the impression that for some manufacturers the paddles rotate with the wheel (and your hands)</p>
<p>another negative i’ve heard is high maintenance costs and failure rates for the DSG. these transmissions may be the wave of the future, but it’s not the future yet…</p>
<p>Other than my MINI, I have a Skoda turbo-diesel (think Czech-built Golf) and I wish I’d ordered the DSG box with it. The rev band is so narrow on the diesel that you spend as much time between gears as in them – so the quicker shift would be useful. But for petrol cars, give me a manual every time!</p>
<p>A good article to justify the unjustifiable. Depends on what you want in each moment. Are electric window more boring that the manuals? Do you think that is much more fun and enjoyable to drive with downs windows with the arm in the window as a soft breeze caresses you head than with switched on climate? Is this efficient? Are convertibles cars efficient? The important thing is be able to choose.</p>
<p>The introduction of the DCT acronym has the first word defined incorrectly. It’s correct in the rest of the text, but the homonym makes for a rather entertaining mental image to this mechanical engineer.</p>
<p>Then I hope MINI Scooter E wil be very manual</p>
<p>I agree with the article, if a car doesn’t have 3 pedals on the floor I don’t want it. No matter how fast they can shift, the driving experience isn’t the same with an automatic transmission car.</p>
<p>Great article!</p>
<p>DaCera, True but the choices you mention are either available on every car or are obvious choices for most people. I suspect there are very few that want manual windows on a daily driver. Since the transmission is a choice we are stuck with for the life of the car, it is of elevated importance, and choosing one can be a grey area as you mention. I did appreciate the automatic in my 1997 M3 while in heavy So Cal traffic and for an automatic, it actually was reasonably fun. Since then I have been loving my manual Mini, now that I am no longer stuck in So Cal traffic.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but the homonym makes for a rather entertaining mental image to this mechanical engineer.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes… dueling clutches! I blame my iPhone.</p>
<p>to each thier own…. Base manuals will always be the least expensive transmission, so they will always be offered in one form or another.</p>
<p>After having driven many different dual clutch systems at media events (admittedly for short times each), I can say that each one has it’s own character and that they vary greatly car to car.</p>
<p>For track racers, they do lower the bar to being competent on a track, but they also go around the track faster! What’s more engaging? Heel-toe or more corner speed?</p>
<p>Anyway, these are in thier infancy, and will get better and better. Instead of thinking of them as a replacement of the manual, it might make more sense to think of them as a replacement for an automatic! Death of the torque converter is where the efficiency gain is.</p>
<p>Matt</p>
<p>I never understood why the paddles aren’t on the steering wheel.
It’s basic, if your turning, you cant shift!</p>
<p>Had an 2010 Audi TT 2.0T quattro DSG. Repeat HAD. Hated the transmission jumpiness, lag, and rubber-band acceleration at low speeds. Also, having a 2.0 turbo (with lag) mated to a laggy DSG, mated to quattro made for a very slow to react “sports car” Currently have a 2008 R56 MCSa, which is soon to be replaced with a R56 MCS manual.</p>
<p>I’m not to familiar with DSG, for I’ve never driven a DSG and frankly from my perspective it’s like this. It’s either a manual or it’s an automatic. These hybrid versions of trying to combine the two is a joke, save your resources, time and money. I’ve driven the paddle shifters and that’s a joke – how boring. I’m not a kid with a play station. I’m 46 and learned how to drive a stick on a 67 International pickup that on a rare and lucky occasion, you could grind that sucker into first gear. That meant you had to start that baby out of 2nd and reeve that baby to get her going, oh and no power steering either. Try shifting and turning that baby at the same time…. So, either drive a man’s vehicle and get a stick(manual for you youngsters) or get an automatic and hope to stay awake…. Want something else that was fun to drive? My grand parents had a late 60’s to very early 70’s Ford Ranchero with a “Manual” 3 speed on the column. Now that aught to really confuse you manual transmission wanna be’s….. and yes you had to use your left foot to.</p>
<blockquote>Then I hope MINI Scooter E will be very manual</blockquote>
<p>It’s electric. Probably doesn’t even have a transmission.</p>
<p>I test drove all manners of cars before deciding on my 2010 S clubman manual.. the is a joy to drive while the dsg version, well, besides being a grand or so more in price, was not nearly as much fun, it felt “plain”.</p>
<p>my relatives in Italy always say that, there, if you don’t drive a manual they call you handicapped.</p>
<p>Hmm…This article should be called ‘Keep your VW DSG. I’ll take a manual.’</p>
<p>Ever driven an M3 DKG? Two different boxes, my friend…</p>
<p>“Hmm…This article should be called ‘Keep your VW DSG. I’ll take a manual.’</p>
<p>Ever driven an M3 DKG? Two different boxes, my friend…”</p>
<p>If the DKG doesn’t have a clutch, you can keep it.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Base manuals will always be the least expensive transmission, so they will always be offered in one form or another.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>But in many cars they are going away. Ferrari will eliminate manuals in 2 years. The next generation BMW M5 and M6 will be DCT only. The list will grow and soon manual options will be increasingly hard to find – especially in the US market.</p>
<p>“If the DKG doesn’t have a clutch, you can keep it.”</p>
<p>In fact, it has two–so, you should like it twice as much. :)</p>
<p>The lower end dual clutch boxes just need a cpl years of improvement while staying in ‘affordable’ bracket. Anyone that’s driven a higher end dual clutch box in a street or race car knows this argument is moot.</p>
<p>They’re much more fun to drive, as well as, quicker on the track since you get to put more of your focus on braking, corner entry/exit, passing, etc–you know, actual race driving techniques, and not spending time slogging through a manual box.</p>
<p>Just to throw fuel on the fire… The mitsubishi TC-SST overheats after 3-6 laps on most racecourses for track days.</p>
<p>My wife drives a GTI with DSG, and she doesn’t like it. I figured that we’d get something sporty that also has a transmission that would provide some interest to myself. Boy I was wrong. There are way too many bugs with a transmission that tries to predict what you’re going to do. One of the worst cases is when you tap the brakes to slow down for an instant, then get on the accelerator. You’re in for an awkward pause then a clunk into gear. Automatics should just remain torque converter based automatics like mercedes. The manufacturers need to stop screwing around with the dual clutch boxes.</p>
<p>DSG also sucks because it won’t hold your gear until redline. It’s nice to have full control of the gearbox like you do with a manual. The last thing that really sucks about the VW/Audi implementation are the steering wheel mounted paddles. They should definitely mount them on the columns.</p>
<p>With that said I love my ’07 Cooper S. The only reason why I’d buy non-manual is because of traffic. Manual is the only way to go in all other cases.</p>
<p>excellent. I enjoyed this article.</p>
<p>Good article Paul and in full agreement. Here is one litmus test to help decide what to spec in your car (assuming you know and enjoy driving stickshift… because I am wholly convinced that many DCT defenders do NOT drive stickshift at all, let alone well):</p>
<p>Where do you do most of your driving? If majority of time with that vehicle is on a race track or in competitive driving events (e.g., autox), go for the DCT.</p>
<p>But if majority of that car’s driving will be on streets and back roads where the objective is not lap time but enjoying a mechanical harmony with the car, learn from the writer of this article (and many others who have purchased a DCT-type for a street car and “repented”), sidestep the hype, spec the 3-pedal manual.</p>
<p>(And only one “escape clause” exists for street-driven vehicles, in my opinion: a car shared with someone who adamantly refuses to drive a manual transmission. The compromise to a DCT in this case is infinitely preferable to being stuck with a torque-converter automatic.)</p>
<p>There are very different semi-automatic transmissions out there. And one needs to spend extended periods of time with them to truly understand how they feel. The DCT in my 2008 M3 is great. The upshifts are smoother than a Lexus, and the shifting algorithm (I set it to 4) is almost exactly how I would shift. The downshifts are not as transparent as the upshifts, since there is lots of engine braking with the high compression V8, but overall, the DCT is 95% perfect.</p>
<p>The author of the article complains of lack of involvement. If he still wants to shift manually, he can do so. He simply does not need to actuate a clutch anymore with his left foot.</p>
<p>He also complains that he can’t use the steering wheel paddles due to the slow steering ratio. Most race tracks don’t require one to turn that much. Even if he needs to steer hand over hand or shuffle-steer, he forgets that shifts can be accomplished via the gear lever any time he wants. It’s similar to race car drivers shifting their sequential transmissions, forward for downshifts, and backwards for upshifts.</p>
<p>He complains that a non-predicted shift could take up to 1.1 secs. After some software updates, I can safely say that this never happens anymore. Shifts are quick and smooth now.</p>
<p>He complains that the automated manual is not as efficient as a conventional manual. EPA figures show the E93 M3 convertible getting slightly better mileage with the DCT than the manual version, although the sedan and coupes don’t show any difference. I am averaging about 20-21 mpg overall in my driving, which is really weird when the EPA figures are supposed to be 14 mpg city and 20 mpg highway. Go figure.</p>
<p>And as far as being seamless, I drive my car as a daily driver and it is as seamless as a regular automatic transmission. Great for those times when I am inching along in traffic.</p>
<p>I’ve also driven my friend’s 5th generation VW GTI with the DSG. It felt great, even smoother and seamless than my DCT. I didn’t find any issues with it at all.</p>
<p>Before the author condemns all clutchless manuals, he should have more seat time behind different types.</p>
<p>-Chris</p>
<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment. The VW Group’s implementation of the dual-clutch transmission (DSG) was the first mass-production semi-automatic in the world, and was considered the benchmark dual-clutch transmission for some time (due in no small part to its fast shift times–8 ms compared to even BMW’s SMG II, which is 80 ms). It also happens to be the system with which I have the most seat time, due in no small part to my ownership of said vehicle. Having put my nearly $35k into that “experiment” should give you an indication of the desire to which I had hoped the DSG would be all that it was said to be. My article was an expression of my experience with that implementation as a reasonable representation of the technology as a whole.</p>
<blockquote>I hope MINI Scooter E will be very manual
It’s electric. Probably doesn’t even have a transmission.</blockquote>
<p>So, will it be bored and poorly efficient?</p>
<p>Was extremely underwhelmed by the DSG on the 2010 GTI. Was blown away by the DSG on the 2010 Evo X.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The author of the article complains of lack of involvement. If he still wants to shift manually, he can do so. He simply does not need to actuate a clutch anymore with his left foot.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It’s much more than that. The process of feeling the mechanical linkage and manipulating a clutch to engage gears is very gratifying to those you like such things. It’s a process that is to be celebrated and appreciated. It’s a process that creates a symbiotic relationship between you and the car that the click of a paddle cannot replicate.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Before the author condemns all clutchless manuals, he should have more seat time behind different types.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Personally I really enjoy the DCT in the M3. But the art of driving includes a sacred connection to the car that only a manual can give me. I appreciate the speed and efficiency of the DCT but at the end of the day it takes away process and a level of control that I look forward to in a sporty car.</p>
<p>Hmmm… two points. First why are we talking about VW’s again? Second, I remember being berated by some by suggesting it was sacrilige to offer JCW S cars with automatic trans.
Again, call me old fashioned but I like the feel and sound of a noisy exhaust and shifting of gears through the range, and also the sound of a car changing down by using a blip of the throttle before the change.
How about this – make all diesels automatics to maximise rev change and torque limits and leave the petrol cars with manual shifts.</p>
<p>Interesting read but overall nothing new. Manual lovers always go into these comparisons with preconceived notions. Anyway, manuals can be much more fun to drive but they are not for everyone. I’d like to see you live with a manual driving everyday in NYC traffic.
I have an auto MC and use the paddles about 90% of the time … still fun and they still provide the extra control sought after.</p>
<p>Also, why wasn’t an MCS used with paddles for the comparison? why go to the VW?</p>
<p>Aurel,</p>
<p>The Mini does not use semi-automatic transmission (paddle shifters or not). It is well understand that traditional automatic transmissions sap power and economy due to the torque converter that is required. Dual-clutch systems do not, making them a much closer rival to the traditional manual.
Please also note that I went into my purchase of the R32 expecting to be a convert to this new method of transmission interaction, not as an evangelist for the traditional set-up. I put money into it (and no doubt lost on the resale) before coming to this hard-learned conclusion.</p>
<p>Several things:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>These same words I heard with every technical innovation incorporated into the vehicle: authenticity, purity, feelings, sacred connection, real drive, sporty, etc. etc. In the end we have accepted for safety, comfort and efficiency.</p></li>
<li><p>I do not think Ferrari, Bugatti, WW, BMW and many other marks are determined to make cars boring and inefficient. The above are not characterized by it. If they are implemented more frequently the DSG will have their reasons.</p></li>
<li><p>Gabe, very nice, it is certain that you have many cars at your disposal: Sunday, work, race, children to school, field house, etc. Maybe if you had to choose one for all you do not you show as “philosopher.”</p></li>
<li><p>As I said before Paul has written an excellent article and I hope it is the first article of many others. But his experience is based on a R32, a car that was disappointed in many respects, except for its sound (Just the opposite the R).</p></li>
</ul>
<p>As a coda to my original piece, I just saw this <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-20017915-265.html#ixzz10rbTlm3J" rel="nofollow">sad thought</a> today from the CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt:
</p>
<p>“Your car should drive itself… It’s amazing to me that we let humans drive cars. It’s a bug that cars were invented before computers.”</p>
<p>I understand that Paul but I don’t believe that “automatic transmissions sap power and economy” … today’s A/T is much more efficient than even a few years ago.</p>
<p>Also I spent countless hours behind the wheel of my friends Jetta GLI with DSG and the shift times and overall control in manual mode is not that far fetched from what I experience even in the MC, I am sure the MCS would be a closer match.</p>
<p>I grow weary of those that say that a manual is more fun to drive. It is painful for me to walk very far, and will require knee surgery soon. I assure you, driving a manual would not be much fun for me and many like me. As far as the DSG goes, I would rather drive a dual clutch tranny than a torque converting slushbox any day. I say, MINI, bring in it on!</p>
<p>Like many self-proclaimed “purists”, I thought I would never think of owning a car without a manual transmission. Then I drove the Evo X with Getrag “TC-SST” in “Super Sport” mode. Holy cr@p.</p>
<p>Here’s hoping VW steps up their DSG game in the GTI-R. Because as of now they don’t got game.</p>
<p>i actually have a convertible S automatic for the day. it’s not terrible by any means, but it does need rung out to 8/10ths or higher to be enjoyable. i think gabe (and paul) hit the nail on the head; it’s not about being faster, it’s about being more connected to the car.</p>
<p>This whole discussion will be moot soon, at least for me. I hope to be driving an electric JCW and will happily give up the clutch pedal for it. Until then, no way!</p>
<p>I owned a R50 manual, and loved it. Tons of fun! Now I drive a VW Beetle TDI with the DSG – 6 speed and I love it even more. I have never driven a DSG with a petrol engine, but with the diesel it great. Super fast, super fun, and super economical. I’d still wouldn’t buy a DSG ever if they offered it in a MINI. Maybe a MINI D, but only maybe.</p>
<p>Welcome to the fold, Paul.</p>
<p>I want a sequential shift manual gear box on my next MINI. Just like on my Honda VT500C Shadow 500</p>
<p>I own an ’08 VW R32 and i love it. But i will admit that I’d REALLY love it if it had a true manual. It’s just not the same with DSG. It’s cool to play around with the paddle shifters and all but they get complicated when you have to turn the wheel and at the same time having to shift. Kind of impossible sometimes.</p>
<blockquote>It’s cool to play around with the paddle shifters and all but they get complicated when you have to turn the wheel and at the same time having to shift. Kind of impossible sometimes.</blockquote>
<p>No worse than with a manual. You can still shift with the stick.</p>
<p>I’ve owned my Volkswagen R32 since new in June 2004. I absolutely love the fluid shifting six-speed manual transmission Volkswagen provided with this model year car. I was blown away with Volkswagen’s poor choice for the 2008 model year R32. Interestingly, other countries were still able to order their R32’s with a manual. I sat quietly and watched as many 2004 owners traded up to the 2008 R32. I myself could not! I witnessed the regret first hand, time and time again. I do feel the DSG’s are amazing, but they ruin the true nature/balance of this car and still need improvement. Your review was spot on!</p>
<p>For me, shifting with a pedal and lever is only one component of feeling connected with the car. You could have a manual in an SUV but would that make you feel more connected withe the road? I think not because it is the overall package of the car that makes the driver feel connected. Thats why I love my manual R53 and SMG in my E46 M3. Both offer similar levels of satisfaction despite the different transmission because they are great driving cars overall.</p>
<p>And for those than think standard manuals are superior because they require more skill – well, that’s just unjustified elitism based on antiquated notions of what skilled driving is. I don’t think anyone would want manuals without synchros, but maybe those who think they’re skilled would want them so they could show off their double-clutching as they get outbraked and passed by a dual-clutch car.</p>
<p>I also own a MKV R32 with DSG (wife’s), it’s my first ‘automatic’ car. Sure it has its downsides, but it’s so much better than a traditional automatic. Disclaimer: I drive a R56 manual.</p>
<p>Also of note, the DSG does downshift slower in ‘D’. If you want it quicker, put it in ‘S’. If you want it quicker, get a GIAC/REVO/ect DSG tune…</p>
<p>If you’re torn between dual clutch and manual, get a manual and you’ll have no regrets. If you need or want an auto, you’ll love the dual clutch.</p>