MINI Not Too Worried About The Fiat 500
In an interview with Autoblog’s Jonathon Ramsey, MINI’s new marketing manager, Tom Salkowski, had some interesting things to say about the landscape of MINI’s competition. Among general comments about MINI’s continued success amidst a growing competition, he reportedly had this to say about Fiat’s 500:
“The 500 is a darling little car, but MINI is a premium brand.”
This sentiment echoed when asked what other marques are thought of as competition for MINI in the small car segment. “…maybe Volkswagen, Mazda, Scion in the small-car segment,” going on to say that “Mini is very much a mindset, it’s different than other vehicles…for the time being we don’t see anything.”
Oliver Friedmann, head of product management, agreed saying, “We don’t see any one-to-one competition, maybe the [Range Rover] Evoque could be [for the R60].”
Ramsey goes on to ask about the emotional heritage of brands like Lotus and BMW, asking how big the cars and the brand can get and still be small enough to be considered “mini”. Friedmann replied, “That’s what we try to find out at the moment. We just jumped over the four-meter line with the Countryman,” going on to add that the european reaction to the R60 has been “very positive.” Further adding “The competitors for the Countryman are significantly larger. We will always stay the smallest in the segment.”
Catch that last bit? We know that MINI has a lot of future models in the works, and it’s nice to hear the guys at the top saying that small will always be part of the brand DNA.
<p>I think they should be. Just re-watched a Top Gear episode with them saying that it is the best small car you can buy for the money. I loved my MINI b/c it was cute and fun. It was not premium, and the new models aren’t either. It is a cute unique car that was previously affordable before they(MINI) started telling themselves that they are a premium brand.</p>
<p>Hubris + Overconfidence = impending come-uppance</p>
<p>The 500 has been a hit since 2007 in Europe. I have yet to read 1 bad review and certainly, 1 bad forum thread of bad repair stories or cost of maintenance surprises.
I proudly owned a R53 and now a R55 which i love but frankly, neither felt premium as they both rattle 24/7, and both cost more than expected to maintain. I am not saying that a Fiat will be trouble free (no car is), but at least the sticker price and brand’s attitude/aspiration won’t make me think that it “should” be premium.</p>
<p>I will trade my Clubman S for the Cinquecento that Mini is not “too worried about” this year.</p>
<p>I think they should be as well. What made mini great was it spanned the market allowing for those to configure a bare bones mini and keep it affordable or, for those to go all out with a premium feel. As mini keeps the focus on premium their market share will dwindle. Already dealers have on site inventory, a phenomena that didn’t exist a few years ago.</p>
<p>There is a lot of competition out there and the small car market is going to get more crowded, with gas predicted to go back to around $4/gallon.</p>
<p>Right now I’m settled on the countryman as my next Mini, a few years down the road. But, I’ll also be test driving a Ford Fiesta hatch, Fiat 500, Honda Fit, and Golf TDI.</p>
<p>i went to the detroit auto show yesterday and as far as the fiat / MINI sentiment, i kinda have to agree. i really liked the 500 from styling and interior layout, but in person the interior comes off as cheap and the functionality is compromised. the rear seats didn’t have enough room to fold down if the fronts were more than 1/2 way back.</p>
<p>It would be foolish of MINI to think that they won’t be losing some market share to the Fiat 500. I understand that the 500 is not going head-to-head with the entire range of products from MINI, but it does provide a lower entry point into the Fiat brand.</p>
<p>What a joke…. MINIUSA and Tom Salkowski needs to take a look at Europe where the 500 sales have made a dent in MINI sales. I have a lot of European friends that fall into the “used to be” MINI group that are now very happy Fiat drivers. I think one thing MINIUSA should keep in memory, a lot of people have bought and buy MINI due to them being cute and unique. It think the lower entry cost for the Fiat and the unique design stands a chance to make in-roads to the US.</p>
<p>Funny Nathaniel you got “small” from the statement, I what I heard was MINI is still smaller than other small cars. To me this sounds like we should expect more 4 meter and longer cars from MINI in the future. As for MINI being premium, while I would have agreed about this when it was first brought back to market I think the MINI interior is seriously lacking the fit and finish of a lot of other cars out there now. All the while MINI has been thinking larger their small cars have been a very static target for other brands. Can’t remember the last time I saw an EVO hot hatch article that even mentions MINI exists.</p>
<p>I’m a big MINI fan. But, I already have my order in for a Prima Edizione 500, which should arrive next month.</p>
<p>The use of the word “darling” is obviously a back-handed comment and Mr. Salkowski loses some of my respect for him with such a cheap shot.</p>
<p>The Fiat 500 has nothing on a MINI. Its plain ugly!!!! Maybe the Toyota Yaris has something to fear….not MINI…</p>
<p>Having spent some time recently with the 500 I can see the ‘darling’. I love the interior but still have yet to be convinced by it’s driving dynamics.</p>
<p>So far, the common denominator is that MINI’s are NOT premium little cars. To say that they are IS a really long shot. These MINI reps are not fooling anyone, except perhaps, new MINI owner-to-be.
Now, nobody mentioned the Nissan Juke, which falls in the same category as the Countryman. And my understanding is that it is a really good small crossover… MINI WILL be facing more and more competition in the years ahead… and if they want to remain “unique” and competitive, they should also really look into offering “premium” vehicles.</p>
<p>I do think that the 500 is going to take some sales from MINI’s lower-end, as some people looking for a “basic” or “cute” commuter/city-car/toy might go for a 500 over a basic Cooper. Still, the MINI line offers many different models and trim levels that Fiat either doesn’t have or won’t have in the US for several years.</p>
<p>Plus, the Fiat has a limited range of options. I have checked out the configurator on several occasions, and I am very disappointed. They do have a nice color palette. However, I’d want a sport model with leather…. why can I not get this? And why are there no wheel options?</p>
<p>Re: MINI being “premium”– it depends on how you define premium. I very much think that a MINI is a premium small car. I’ve had several BMWs, and my MINI has a range of options that I am used to from my BMWs that I simply can not get on most small cars that compete with MINI. Factory nav, xenon lights, panoramic moonroof, a nicely appointed leather interior, etc. Some of the interior plastics are a bit cheap, but overall it is a far nicer car than most small cars. Some competitors have made improvements in their recent models, but they’re not quite on the same level. I think the only one that comes close is VW, they offer most of these features as well but where they come short is in your ability to custom-order it as you want it.</p>
<p>I think the Fiat 500 is probably more comparable to a MINI One which we don’t get in the US, but I’ll likely be getting a 500 Abarth if and when it arrives to replace my MINI. The 500 1.4 is looking to be a very good value, with a fully loaded Sport coming in at a base Cooper price tag.</p>
<p>I haven’t driven a 500, but the interior is pretty nice and from what I hear, build quality than the MINI. This isn’t hard for me to believe with all the rattles my MINI has! Just sitting in one at an auto show felt a little more refined and “special” than a cooper. Not a fan of the white headliner, but whatever. If the dealer network isn’t the train wreck that MINI’s dealers are, I’ll be a happy camper if I get that Abarth.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t consider one as a replacement to my Clubman, but I might consider one in addition to. Haven’t driven a 500 yet but was considering adding an R53 to my garage once the R55 is paid off, if they don’t screw it up in the meantime an Abarth 500 might take the place of the R53… Not that MINI cares whether I buy their cars used…</p>
<p>I think the 500 will give MINI some competition, whether they consider the car in their camp or not. I’m going to shop the Abarth against whatever MINI is offering once the Abarth gets here. We have 2 MINIs, there’s always room for a little variety.</p>
<p>So the Fiat is “darling”. I seem to recall that MINIs are “cute”. Seems to me that Fiat will take a bite out of the American marketshare. Too many MINI Peeps here in the States have expressed interest in the Fiat to be purely an exception.</p>
<p>I would have to say that MINI is a premium small car when compared to other entry level small cars. For features and materials, the price seems right. Once you add in chassis, engine, transmission (which is where I want the money and engineering spent), MINI truly is premium. You know where they worked on keeping costs down, which is improved overall. My dad’s ’09 R56 has far more rattles than my ’04 R50 but the 2011 LCI has definitely helped the interior a lot. And the R60 has the best interior so far, quality-wise.</p>
<p>The 500 is a touch smaller than the MINI, and seems to have a smaller backseat. I haven’t sat in one yet nor driven one, but the reviews overall from Europe seem to be more “good style, okay driving dynamics”. The 500 will win sales from current MINI drivers who are tired of MINI or want the latest, cute small car. For me, as long as MINI stays true to what is MINI and keeps everything smaller than the R60, that’s fine. I don’t really know of a direct MINI competitor. There are some close in size and driving character overall, but nothing really apples to apples like a Civic vs Corolla. And the Juke has a cheap interior with unfortunate styling and a small backseat. I cannot fit behind the front seat when adjusted for myself in the Juke while I can in the R55 and the R60.</p>
<p>I don’t want MINI to be arrogant, but I do agree that’s it’s a premium product as small cars go and does not have any direct competition.</p>
<p>Good point about “…that even mentions MINI exists.” That has been a consistent frustration and a little mystifying to me for years now. Too few times has the auto press included a MINI in a group comparison of like priced or equipped cars.</p>
<p>In Holland the Fiat 500 is a big succes. But it still doesn’t wheel into the Mini sales. Believe me, it is a entirely different product. No go card feeling, no “road” feel like mini. In Holland and the rest of Europe the Abarth versions are placed as a premium product next to the Mini. Abarth can not be delivered thru the regular Fiat dealers. Only a small selected group of dealers (still one in Holland) can deliver the Abarth 500. The showroom of this dealer is Mini like. They even got the same marketing as Mini. Clothes and lifestyle products.</p>
<p>The good thing about Fiat…is that it doesn’t shout that it is a mini killer but just provies itself a good contender. Unlike Audi with his hideous A1 model, Alfa Mito, etc….</p>
<p>And off course, Mini should be well aware about the competition…there shouldn’ t be any room for arrogance mister Salkowsky!!!</p>
<p>MINI should not dismiss Fiat so easily. I currently drive a BMW 535i with the lease ending in May. My list of candidates is headed by the Fiat 500, followed by the Fiesta Hatch, and the Mazda 2. You may be reading this thinking why would I switch to a completely different class of car? I want something cheap and fun to drive with the ability to carry my wife and small dogs. I don’t need a large sedan. I am also thinking gas will continue to increase topping out at about $4. My wife has a 2010 Cooper S vert but if we both enjoy the Fiat, I could see us trading that in for the Fiat 500 vert when it arrives next year.</p>
<p>I have to say, in all honesty, if I was looking for a new car right now, the Juke would be the first one I look at. Now, if I ignore my impending need for room, I would be looking at a 500. I love my MINI, I’ll hate to see it go, but they are just not on top anymore.</p>
<p>Heck, I would even be interested in a 500 with a Twin-Air engine, which I doubt we’ll ever see. That engine is a nice piece of kit.</p>
<p>I bought my R53 specifically because is WASN’T a premium car. I had a Jetta 1.8T that I liked a lot, but I didn’t connect with it the way I did with the MINI because the VW was too nice. I liked that the MINI’s interior didn’t try to feel luxurious. That made it sportier and more fun.</p>
<p>One thing going against the 500: When I take my $21,000 MCS to the dealer or the local BMW/MB/Porsche/MINI specialist, I get the same level of service as the guy who bought a car costing five times as much. I can’t imagine a 500 owner getting anything like that from a Chrysler dealer.</p>
<p>For sure MINI will lose “cute” sales to the 500, and enthusiast sales to the Abarth when it bows, but from what I have read the driving dynamics and even the seating position (!) fall short of what MINI offers. Of course, both cars fall well short of the GTI and Renaultsport Clio in Top Gear magazine’s estimation. (The reason the MINI is left out of most comparisons these days is because it is either overpriced or underpowered, depending on the competition. It doesn’t fit into any of the usual niches.)</p>
<p>Wow, a good dialog here with no snipping at one another…:-)</p>
<p>I also have to agree with “MOST” of what JonPD stated, now that’s something.</p>
<p>I’ve stated before that my 2002 S was crap but my 2004 with 80,000+ on it has been great. I was going to get the Abarth 500 but after the LA Auto Show I won’t unless they improve the Mex build quality. Shabby at best.</p>
<p><strong>Was wondering what happened to the Facebook login?</strong></p>
<blockquote>
<p>I haven’t driven a 500, but the interior is pretty nice and from what I hear, build quality than the MINI. This isn’t hard for me to believe with all the rattles my MINI has! Just sitting in one at an auto show felt a little more refined and “special†than a cooper. Not a fan of the white headliner, but whatever.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Remember that the 500s we get in the states will be built in a new factory in Mexico… Not the Polish factory that builds the Euro version (along side the identical Ford Ka).</p>
<p>I have previously commented on another post about wise advice given to me years ago – “Never rubbish the opposition, just say ours is better”. Seems Mr Salkowski is saying exactly that.
Yes, the Fiat 500 is a success. And Frank Stephenson has a little hand in that as well.
Back when I was a Mini Minor, and everyone was driving hotted-up Minis, along came the Fiat 500 Abarth version. Now that was cool because it gave a hot Mini a run for its money, and was “different”.</p>
<p>As with Olympic track athletes, it’s pretty hard to see where the opposition is when you are out in front – you can slow and look backwards, or just keep steaming ahead.
BMW / MINI / RR make PREMIUM cars with PREMIUM price tags. Why USA doesn’t take the MINI One is mystifying.</p>
<p>I agree that MINI should not get cocky. And they especially should not assume that just because they perceive their car as premium that all of their buyers are purchasing it for that reason. I bought a 2011 MINI S in October and shortly later learned of the existence of the Fiat 500. I was a little nervous looking at it in person at the LA Auto Show, afraid I’d love it. I didn’t. I definitely thought the interior quality seemed cheap and it was not for me. HOWEVER – there are definitely MINI customers who will be attracted to it. I can’t imagine it’s in the ballpark in terms of road feel but there are probably many female creative professionals (for example) who will find this fills the cute, compact, customizable bill just fine.</p>
<p>Greg.. Yep, when you only look where you are going, you don’t see everyone catching up to you until they are ahead.</p>
<p>And that sounds exactly like the mindset that Mr. Friedmann has.</p>
<p>I was at the Detroit show on Saturday, and the Fiat 500 was drawing lots of viewers — it was downright crowded on that stand. I stood for quite awhile to get a chance to sit in one. I was not really impressed with interior materials and fit. But, it is cute! and I would not be interested in anything other than an Abarth edition. Plus, I would be waiting to see how the stand up in the first couple of years…resale value, etc.</p>
<p>I think the main point that needs to be considered is that the incoming invasion is not limited to the Fiat 500. While I would say that I doubt the 500 will ever live up to be a performance vehicle I think that most of the current MINI market is not performance oriented either. It may be a part of the equation but not the main selling point.</p>
<p>I think between the Focus being sold here now and the ST likely coming this direction. Fiat talking about not only bringing the 500 but also the MiTO possibly. Also have heard VWUSA is wanting the Scirocco here in a possible type R not to mention the Golf R. I think MINI has its hands full with the current competition let alone what is likely to make its way here in the future. I think that small cars are on their way up in the US over both the near and long term. I am sure MINI will continue to sell well I am just thinking their sales figures will resemble those of Europe before long.</p>
<p>MINI is “premium” in terms of driving characteristics and certain features shared with its BMW brothers… but my 2009 MCS has way too many rattles for me to think it’s outside the striking distance of something like the 500.</p>
<p>“Remember that the 500s we get in the states will be built in a new factory in Mexico… Not the Polish factory that builds the Euro version (along side the identical Ford Ka).”</p>
<p>I am aware of this, but I wonder if the Abarth will also be built in Mexico? Anyways, the parts are probably the same as the European built model and Mexican built cars have certainly improved over the last decade from what I’ve seen. Certainly wouldn’t detract me from the car.</p>
<p>@ Hans: The Mexican Built North American Fiat 500 uses a different platform similar to the Euro Spec model but certain areas were upgraded to help the car pass U.S. Crash Testing and regulations. While they are related it is not exactly the same car in a cookie cutter way. The MINI comparably was engineered from day 1 to be sold in the U.S. as well as everywhere else. I don’t know if any of the dimensions changed with the revision but read most of the articles written and they point this out.</p>
<p>Love my MINI. No other car will do. My next car will be a MINI, and my next car after that will be a MINI too. Don’t care that there is competition; of course there is, and there always will be. I LIKE the fact that there aren’t a ton of little MINIs running around; makes mine all the more special and unique. There are alot of nifty cars out there. So the way I see it: let those who don’t care that much about driving a MINI buy something else. But MINI Cooper will always be my idea of the perfect car. Period.</p>
<p>I bought a MINI because of the way it drove…..plain and simple….There was nothing like it 8yrs ago and nothing like it still today….Premium brand BS aside, If the 500 doesn’t drive like a MINI then in my book it’s not a competitor.
With that said there are plenty of people (about 71% according to a recent podcast…i.e auto trans)who obviously don’t buy the car for the driving experience and for these people….many will chase after the latest cutesy offering
There are people who bought a Cooper just because it was “cute”…and there are people who will do the same with the 500…..and there is not much I would like to see done to retain those kind of consumers</p>
<p>I just like it because it’s “different”. Kind of like MINI was in 2002 ;). A LOT of people buy because of that fact alone.</p>
<p>Bring on the Spacebox to get me excited again.</p>
<blockquote>There are people who bought a Cooper just because it was “cuteâ€â€¦and there are people who will do the same with the 500…..and there is not much I would like to see done to retain those kind of consumers…</blockquote>
<p>Too late. Much has been done to retain those consumers already. Softer dampening in year one. Auto trans on the S. The Cabrio. And then, of course, the watered-down driving dynamics of the R56/55. MINI started off in the right direction in 2002, and then veered abruptly and early toward making the “it’s so cute!” segment happy. Oh, well.</p>
<p>Occupying the self-proclaimed “premium” position in the market doesn’t mean much when your sales start to shrink as potential buyers choose an “inferior” brand. Which is what is going to happen to a huge percentage of Cooper prospects. And the Abarth 500 SS may be able to eat in to Cooper S sales as well, especially if it comes in 25% less expensive.</p>
<p>Let the games begin! Oh, and it looks like MINI has already been assessed a penalty for that total douche comment by their marketing head. Well played.</p>
<p>Even though “being Premium” is not at all the reason why I bought my JCW cabrio (driving fun and general feel good factor is what I bought it for, and I LOVE it), I understand just about everything about MINI is indeed premium.
Expensively engineered chassis and drivetrain that do NOT share any parts with other models, MASSIVE customization at factory (that range from cheap and cheerful to fun and sporty, even luxury) brilliant logistics, and dealers who know how to treat customers.</p>
<p>If what Mr. Salkowski means by premium is, as in “High quality, unique, fun product”, then I’m all with him.</p>
<p>If he means arrogance and unjustly higher price tags, demoting MINI to “Buy me and pretend you are rich” consumer product, it’s time for MINIMALIZM on his ego!</p>
<p>I’ve driven both but the 500 is no way close to MINI in driving dynamics. a MINI ONE rival maybe but there is none in US.</p>
<p>I see the 500 as more of a friend than a threat to MINI.
Along with other “Small but not rubbish” cars, the small segment will expand more.</p>
<p>Sort of like how smartphone evolved around iPhone. There will be countless wanna-be’s, but they’ll never be the iPhone.
market share may decline, but as long as the entire market grows faster there’ll be more MINI’s on the road.</p>
<p>FIAT…Fix It Again Tony</p>
<p>I’m a Director of 4 companies and could pretty much choose any car I wanted within reason. Yet, I’ve owned an R53 from new, and R56 from new and just recently bought a late 2005 R52.</p>
<p>For 7 years Mini has been a lifestyle choice for me. Mini definitely is a mindset, and it’s a considered choice because the car’s aren’t cheap.</p>
<p>I did look at a Fiat 500 Abarth recently, and beyond that I couldn’t find a single car that could compete on the same terms with the Mini.</p>
<p>Mini have done their research and they know their market very well… which is why I think he’s right to say that they don’t have any direct competition.</p>
<p>I wonder though if all Mini owners occupy the same demographic. Are we all iPhone, iPad, iMac, creative types with young families… most of the ones I meet are at any rate.</p>
<p>I’ve been buying Apple kit for almost 20 years, without any hesitation. I feel the same way about Mini, as I do about Apple… great companies, brilliant products.</p>
<p>Although I didn’t do an exact count, I’d say that they should worry. Opinions on a mini board seem to run about 80% to 20% in favor of fiat being a dent into mini sales.</p>
<p>Time to worry Mini!</p>
<p>I didn’t catch the arrogance from reading the article. Fiat was commended for their work on the 500, and I think the competition will be good for both parties. Taking this into a broader context, the Countryman sales should help with more competition popping up in the small car segment. I am a fan of the color choices of the 500 but I’ll wait until news of the Abarth before I check out a showroom.</p>
<blockquote>Although I didn’t do an exact count, I’d say that they should worry. Opinions on a mini board seem to run about 80% to 20% in favor of fiat being a dent into mini sales.
Time to worry Mini!</blockquote>
<p>LOL! Yes, the same group of contrarians who predicted with adamant passion that the R56 and the Clubman would be massive sales failures and sink the brand for good. MINI should certainly take diligent notes at our feet, for we are the oracle!</p>
<p>I would bet that Fiat decided to sell the vehicle here on plenty of research showing there is a potential sales base from more than a few interested parties.</p>
<p>Nathaniel I think the massive pushback from the community about the factory jcw has shown direct correlation to the sales figures of the car. Maybe MINI should take some heed, at least as much as they do any of the comments from any of the myriad of voice in the MINI community. I believe that a majority is not most people on all forums are ignored by MINI I think there are a brief few people MINI watches closely for their views. I believe that Gabe is one of those persons.</p>
<p>Also MINI is not the only brand with fanatics, think this Fiat owner has shown MINI owners a thing or two about his feelings about his car.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.worldcarfans.com/111011830468/500000-fiat-500c-commissioned-by-chinese-businessman" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.worldcarfans.com/111011830468/500000-fiat-500c-commissioned-by-chinese-businessman</a></p>
<p>JonPD,</p>
<p>We <em>know</em> that MINI pays very close attention to MF and to all the comments that we leave, which is fantastic. I’m really glad they do. I’m also very glad that they’re not relying on us for market predictions, as ours is usually a very particular point of view. A point of view which, if we’re honest, is usually pretty conservative and downright resistive to change.</p>
<p>If MINI only made cars the way <em>you or me</em> would want them too, they wouldn’t be as stable and successful as they are. We have to keep in mind that not every MINI owner or potential MINI owners is a MF-level enthusiast, and that’s a good thing. So while ours is an important and influential voice in the MINI community (just look at the Coupê and the Roadster), it’s important to keep some perspective and remember that we are not a balanced cross-section of the entire MINI-buying public, or even the entire worldwide MINI community. One of the best things about this brand is that there are a lot of great reasons to love MINIs.</p>
<p>Fiat 500 configurator is up now:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fiatusa.com/en/build_your_own.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.fiatusa.com/en/build_your_own.html</a></p>
<p>The 500 isn’t nearly as customizable as a MINI so it doesn’t take long to figure out that a 500 Sport is $4,000 less than a Cooper with the sport package. I’d say that $4,000 explains why the 500’s interior quality may not be up to MINI’s.</p>
<p>Here’s a different take on this question. Mini needs to worry about competion on the “high end” as much as the “low end”</p>
<p>It’s possible to spec out a JCW Coupe in excess of $50,000! I just placed my order for the BMW 1M at about $47,000.</p>
<p>The JCW is a fine car (I’ve owned 3), however, I don’t believe anyone would put up an argument that it’s a car of equal performance/value to even a 135i much less the 1M.</p>
<p>I thought about waiting for the JCW Coupe’ in August but I bet that will be even pricier. Heck, a new Lotus Elise can be had for under $50k and the Coupe won’t compete with that.</p>
<p>If Mini’s sales numbers are there then I guess they know what they’re doing, but they lost me on my new performance toy purchase.</p>
<p>Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the population of the USA is 311 million circa.
The Ford F series pickup sold 528000 in 2010 alone.
I would say there are plenty of car buyers in the USA for just about any make and model.
Let’s just get things into perspective. Horses for courses, I say.</p>
<p>The 500’s interior looks like a cheerful place to spend time in. I can’t say the same for the current mini offerings.</p>
<p>There was a “Mopar” edition Fiat at the NAIAS. Which would be more towards the customizing such as a MINI, other then that I think they take the place of the VW Bug. Another competitor but not to the premium sector.</p>
<p>Pictures from NAIAS 2011 Paceman, BMW, Fiat..etc</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/83767992@N00/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.flickr.com/photos/83767992@N00/</a></p>
<p>the fact that lately posts about “other cars” always generate more comments than “MINI” posts should say something.</p>
<p>It will compete with MINI a little, with the Scion IQ a lot.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, the same designer worked on the rebirth of the Mini (R50) and the rebirth of the 500 (now). Same talent, same wonderful design. I think that the 500 will be a hit no matter where. Personally, everytime I saw one in Europe, it cought my eye and made me smile. Mini used to have that effect on me 8yrs ago or so…</p>
<p>I agree Mini shouldn’t worry, the Fiat 500 may be a great car but it has got to be the ugliest thing, well next to an Aztek.</p>
<blockquote> I think they [the 500] take the place of the VW Bug</blockquote>
<p>(Facepalm)</p>
<p>I can’t believe it took 50 comments before any of us realized to make that comparison. I think you’re spot on, alpinamike. The PT Cruiser would be another good parallel, were it still in production. Something more interesting and stylish than a Civic, but still not in the same league as the MINI.</p>
<p>Regardless, the marketplace is big enough for everybody. It’s pretty narrow-minded to think that if Fiat does steal sales from MINI that it would <em>only</em> steal sales from MINI and not other car makers too. There’s Honda, Scion, Toyota, Ford and everybody else who makes some neat-looking small car. MINI priced itself out of that fray long ago, and the Fiat is competing much more in that arena than ours, I think. And while Mr. Salkowski could maybe have chosen his words better, I think that’s precisely what he meant.</p>
<p>I think the 500 is a more competent car than the New Beetle or PT Cruiser, though. From what I’ve read in Top Gear magazine it is a legitimately fun car to drive (especially in convertible and Abarth guises) and not just a styling statement. That puts it more in line with MINI than the VW or PT retromobiles would have been.</p>
<p>Also, the 500 will be like the MINI in that it won’t be cross-shopped with similarly priced cars very often. It will have tons more style and tons less practicality than anything close to its price.</p>
<p>They could be making a mistake by not having the Abarth version at the outset, though. If the 500 launches as a cute car like the New Beetle did, it’s going to be tough convincing enthusiasts to buy a performance version. How many guys bought turbo Beetles rather than GTIs or Jettas, after all?</p>
<p>I’m waiting for the Abarth Esseesse version to make any judgment on whether this car is a competitor or not. I want to really like this car. The rear suspension setup is a bit lacking though in comparison to the MINI’s multilink.</p>
<p>Best of luck to Fiat breaking into this marketplace! I just came back from a long road trip and saw a ton of Ford Fiestas on the highways so perhaps this is a good time to be introducing new small cars to the US market.</p>
<p>Thanks for agreeing, Nathaniel</p>
<p>“”I can’t believe it took 50 comments before any of us realized to make that comparison. I think you’re spot on””</p>
<p>The VW Bug moved out and Fiat moves in. Both have same general shape and style as far as platform level. Both going to Mexico to produce.</p>
<p>The Fiat Mopar is the closest to MINI in cost also.</p>
<p>Fiats price points on 2 tier platforms are lower then MINI, but there are only a couple of options.</p>
<p>BTW , I saw a semi loader full of Fiats going to Detriot on my way south from the Auto Show. So they are on there way.</p>
<p>I think being “premium” car is more than just BMW/MINI saying so and charging a premium price and having fancy matching driving shoes. It means providing premium service to customers. I hear over and over again the lack of accountability and customer service when dealing with known (and expensive) issues like the cold-start problem, pre-mature clutch burnout, and until recently the HPFP. How can MINI call themselves a ‘premium’ brand yet offer such inferior service?!?!</p>
<p>Come on MINI, if you’re going to charge a premium price, then follow it up with premium service and then you’ll have a premium product!</p>
<p>@Rixter The poor service and lack of accountability is exactly why I would be extremely hesitant to buy another MINI. Although I like the way it drives when it runs properly, I do have the cold start rattle and I’m pretty sure my HPFP is bad since I get fuel cut off and nasty hesitation sometimes when hitting boost. Kind of ruins the fun driving experience.</p>
<p>Worst of all, it’s like pulling teeth to get anything fixed if there is no Check Engine Light. MINI has got literally the worst service of any auto make I’ve dealt with (and yes I have gone to multiple dealers).</p>
<p>@JonPD: EVO said this as recently as September about the 2011 MCS: “Drive it against fresh foes like the Audi A1, Alfa Romeo Mito and Citroen DS3, and the Mini feels an even sharper tool than before, especially with the Sport button pressed. There’s no getting away from how hard it rides, but it’s much more of a drivers’ choice than its contemporaries.”</p>
<p>My favorite MINI related EVO article.</p>
<p>EVO Best of the Best that just came out, page 122 under the heading of 2010 Disappointment of the Year. The article written by Nick Trott, Harry Metcalfe, and Chris Harris.</p>
<p>“Dishonorable mentions</p>
<p>MINI Countryman, Audi RS5 & Alfa Giulietta Cloverleaf</p>
<p>What do all three have in common? The all promised so much, that’s what. We expected the Countryman to be the first small crossover to drive with spirit and verve. We thought it would look impressive, and hoped it would be sensibly priced. Problem is, it’s OK. And ‘OK’ is not what we expect from MINI. We’ll be running a Countryman in Fast Fleet next year, so provided BMW doesn’t get to upset by this report and pull the car, it’ll have a chance to worm its way into our affections…”</p>
<p>Maybe MINI should stop worrying about other brands and concentrate on their own brand. Still can’t remember the last time MINI was brought up during debates about hot hatches in EVO last.</p>