MINI Coupe Heavier then Hatch by 45 lbs
The early rumors indicating the coupe would be lighter were wrong. Due to MINI increasing rigidity with extra bracing (where the rear seat would be), additional pedestrian impact safety, the rear movable spoiler and several options that are now standard on the R58, the Coupe is actually around 45 lbs heavier than the hatch. This is based on our in-depth conversation about the car with MINI execs. One important note, the extra weight of the pedestrian impact safety measures will eventually find it’s way to the rest of the MINI line-up sometime in 2012.
That all aside the Coupe is still faster than the R56 according to MINI. While the official 0-60 time is pegged at 6.1 we heard from MINI tonight that the R58 is not only faster than the R56 hatch in a straight line but also around any track thanks to better weight distribution and better aerodynamics.
But enough of the subjective. We’ll be putting this theory to the test tomorrow on the track.
<p>Are you sure it isn’t the weight of the funky camouflage? Hard to imagine that it is heavier than the hatchback.</p>
<p>We are officially tantalized! Thanks, Gabe :)</p>
<p>That’s disappointing. Â Nothing tampers my enthusiasm for a car quite like finding out it weighs 200 lbs more than I thought it would. Â Now it’s even <em>harder</em> for me to justify getting one….</p>
<p>I’ll happily trade a touch of weight for torsional rigidity. </p>
<p>Also, LOVE the lower lip on the front bumper. Â </p>
<p>What’s the point of this car again?</p>
<p>I’m disappointed to hear that it’s a bit heavier than was to be expected, but I’m still happy with the weight ratings – it’s much lighter and more powerful than my Cobalt SS I’ll be replacing soon!</p>
<p>Well I have to say I am disappointed to hear it comes in heavier. Not surprised that its quicker if nothing else having a less vertical windscreen.</p>
<p>Wow… I really want to like the R58, but MINI hasn’t made it easy from a logical standpoint: More expensive, less practical, and HEAVIER than the Hardtop. Oh, but it’s got chassis stiffening!?!?! Yawn. I can buy that from any number of aftermarket companies.</p>
<p>BTW, better weight distribution is a terrible argument on MINI’s part for a couple reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The previous press release seems to indicate the weight distribution has moved even MORE toward the front: “The resulting weight distribution has major benefits for vehicle dynamics. The slight increase in front axle load rating compared with the MINI increases traction at the front wheels and helps to ensure that the engine power is effortlessly translated into sporty acceleration.” That doesn’t seem like the right place to add weight to an already front-heavy car to me, though I’d love to see some actual evidence that it’s an improvement.</p></li>
<li><p>So, it’s got better weight distribution, but weighs 45lb more? That means I can just add 45 lb to my hatchback wherever is most beneficial (probably not the front) and we’ll be even. Or, how about 45lb of chassis stiffening components?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I’ll reserve final judgement for when there’s more testing to go on and I see/drive one in person. I also am not necessarily saying I won’t like it or that it won’t sell well, etc. However, in my opinion, it’s a huge disappointment to those of us who have been looking at the R58 as the pinnacle performance MINI that the R58 has been designed with nearly zero performance advantages over any other MINI, and arguably, a couple performance disadvantages (more weight, weight distribution moved forward).</p>
<p>I wish MINI had a similar attitude with the R58 that Ford had with the Boss 302. Ford bosses said that if the Boss wasn’t faster around Laguna Seca than an M3, they’re not building it. I wish MINI would have set even a much more reasonable goal… being significantly faster than a comparable trim-level R56 around a track. Again, I’d be happy to be wrong, but from the best of what we know now (that the R58 is heavier, has the same/similar suspension, etc), it’s looking like the performance difference is going to be less-than-earthshattering.</p>
<p>OK, I’ll end my novel there.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info Gabe, and I am looking forward to your on-track impressions tomorrow.</p>
<p>I weigh at least 45 lbs. less than most average Americans, so not a problem! hahah</p>
<p>well stated.</p>
<p>well stated.</p>
<p>The additional weight is certainly not a positive attribute. Seemingly, it could have been reduced significantly had lighter weight construction components been used to compensate. According to reports, the roadster will suffer from an even greater weight handicap. Perhaps both should vie for the “inorganic” Greatest Loser Championship!</p>
<p>Just found the weight is also due to the extra pedestrian impact standards
that the 2012 Coupe will have. All 2013 MINIs will have it to.</p>
<p>So now when a distracted “motorer” leaves the bowling alley and plows into a gaggle of pedestrians he/she will surely score a strike! Â Just kidding, of course;) Â Seriously, it was the “pedestrian impact standards” that also caused post ’06 MINI design to take a turn in the wrong direction.</p>
<p>The front end of the design is very nice. I could see it morphing into the hatchback complete with its more steeply racked windshield. This would give the hatchback a “speedster-like” profile and enhance aerodynamics.</p>
<p>Seeing as how the coupe is based on the cabrio, the structural bracing in the name of rigidity will come at a price…</p>
<p>It’s pretty substantial as you’ll see and the price is minor.</p>
<p>I would not get myself so upset about 50 or so lbs. You might have that much range between two different drivers. If you are so serious, then cut off a leg.</p>
<p>45 lb isn’t the end of the world, you’re right, but when the rumor is 150 lb LESS than the Hardtop, that’s a 200 lb swing. Plus, it’s the principle of it: the high performance model shouldn’t be heavier than the lesser car unless it’s the result of significant performance upgrades, IMO.</p>
<p>45 lb isn’t the end of the world, you’re right, but when the rumor is 150 lb LESS than the Hardtop, that’s a 200 lb swing. Plus, it’s the principle of it: the high performance model shouldn’t be heavier than the lesser car unless it’s the result of significant performance upgrades, IMO.</p>
<p>Many performance models of cars end up being heavier. For instance all M cars are heavier than their standard versions due to larger standard wheels, brakes body kits, and random other hardware. So the fact that it weighs a little more isn’t a great but really shouldn’t be a deal breaker unless you were looking for a dedicated track car.</p>
<p>The key thing to remember about the JCW Coupe is that it’s the fastest MINI ever produced. Even the standard suspension (ie non-sport) is a little more aggressive with a larger anti rollbar than the hatch. But (and this is the thing a few will have a hard time wrapping their heads around) this is not meant to be an extreme MINI. It’s meant to be a little more agile and a little faster while delivering a unique personal and decidedly sporty look.</p>
<p>I absolutely see you point, Gabe. Regarding the M cars, like you said, they’re heavier than their lesser siblings because of bigger brakes, engines, wheels, tires, etc. With the Coupe, that’s not the case… All those things are simply carried over from the Hardtop.</p>
<p>That said, I very much see the appeal of the car despite it not being a significantly superior performance car than the Hardtop. It looks cool, it will be a hair better performer off the showroom floor, and it will be rarer/more unique than the Hardtop. Would I like to own one? Sure. I’m just disappointed that I don’t have more ammo for the argument against just getting a cheaper, more practical Hardtop when it comes time to buy another MINI. It seems like a great car, but so is the Hardtop, and if the only substantial difference is looks at the expense of practicality (and $), then that makes it harder to pull the trigger on the Coupe over the Hardtop.</p>
<p>Maybe I’ll see it in person and drive it and the Coupe will be far more than the sum of it’s parts (like most MINIs) and I’ll forget about the logic of the purchase, but we’ll see.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the updates, Gabe.</p>
<p>Pediestiran impact standards. The Euros are so incredibly lame.</p>
<p>I rate this car FAIL.</p>
<p>Seat belts were considered “lame” once too… more recently, airbags were considered “lame”…Â </p>
<p>Many performance models of cars end up being heavier. For instance all M cars are heavier than their standard versions due to larger standard wheels, brakes body kits, and random other hardware. So the fact that it weighs a little more isn’t a great but really shouldn’t be a deal breaker unless you were looking for a dedicated track car.</p>
<p>The key thing to remember about the JCW Coupe is that it’s the fastest MINI ever produced. Even the standard suspension (ie non-sport) is a little more aggressive with a larger anti rollbar than the hatch. But (and this is the thing a few will have a hard time wrapping their heads around) this is not meant to be an extreme MINI. It’s meant to be a little more agile and a little faster while delivering a unique personal and decidedly sporty look.</p>
<p>I’m disappointed by the weight not being significantly less than the hatches (I expected it to be 100lb less). The weight distribution is likely for the worse, as removing the hatch clearly will lighten the rear of the car. This can be spun my marketing as a positive (i.e., better traction for the front wheels) but it is disingenuous argument at best… handling and braking are both adversely affected when weight shifts off the rear wheels towards the front. </p>
<p>Still, it’s a unique entry in the marketplace and certainly a more sporting package or “base” upon which to build a hopped up MINI (or to get a head start and order the JCW variant). Overall, I do like it quite a bit. </p>
<p>Would I recommend one over a Mazda Miata (folding hardtop model)? Not likely, largely because of the RWD, weight balance, and lighter weight of the Mazda, along with the “2 cars in one” that the solid folding roof allows (the MINI Roadster compares even more poorly IMO because it is likely to be even heavier and also has a fabric roof).</p>
<p>Please explain what pedestrian impact standards accomplish in “real world” reality. Are lives being saved? Doubt it. It’s the Euro Socialistic “hands in everthing” so it appears they care buy making car companys do something meaningless and therefore drive up prices and ruin the way the Mini looks.</p>
<p>If you knew me personally you’d know I’m almost first-and-foremost a (very) sporting driver… it’s probably my favourite thing to do and I’m pretty good at it or a non-regular track attendee. 🙂  HOWEVER, I’m also a pedestrian and even sometimes a cyclist, and I’m glad to see the “crash interface” being considered in modern car design – both for vehicle-vehicle crashes (massive disparities between the raised bumpers of trucks and SUVs and the cars we enthusiasts love should be prioritized, IMO) and vehicle-pedestrian / vehicle-cyclist crashes. </p>
<p>I see no need to put a political label on this issue, it’s an engineering design challenge and, as such, can be addressed in better or worse ways. As many have pointed out, some OEMs have met the new regulations while keeping great front end styling, others have unfortunately puffed up the hood line to provide the requisite clearance between hard engine points and the hood. Based on the cars being released by every OEM selling EU, many of which look quite fantastic, the regulation is not to blame so much as how some designers have chosen to meet it.</p>
<p>Well maybe BMW/MINI should bring over some guest engnineers from Mazda. They have said their are significantly reducing the weight on the next generation Miata is being reported being about 400 lbs lighter than the first generation. Its also sold in Europe so guessing that BMW/MINI could stand to learn a bit from them.</p>
<p>Agree 100% JonPD… the weight savings recently rumoured for the ND miata seem almost too-good-to-be-true, but that Mazda has set weight REDUCTION as a primary design objective for their roadster is absolute fact. Through three generations of the car they have been very careful to keep weight down and, given how much grew for the NC and how many additional components were needed over the past two decades since the NA was launched in 1990, they can legitimately claim to have done a better job than most OEM’s in this regard. But the ND design objective is even more aggressive – to reduce weight to NA levels (~2100lb), if not lower! </p>
<p>That’s the kind of engineering ethos I would like to see more of at BMW/MINI, especially with the focus on “efficient dynamics” which so far seems to be largely confined to powerplants with higher specific outputs than it does to overall weight savings or chassis size reductions. But I suspect/hope this is coming… it would fit perfectly with BMW’s reputation as an engineering-driven company that makes cars for drivers… and even better with MINI’s previous branding as “MINImal motoring” (from a size and eco footprint perspective). </p>
<p>“eco footprint”? Yeah that’s consistant with your euro pedestrian crash standard views and offense at the mention of Euro-socialism.</p>
<p>What rhymes with “mommie”?</p>
<p>I guess it is up to the aftermarket to reduce the weight. That hatch must weigh a bunch! A Carbon Hatch and a Carbon hood could shave a lot of weight but it will cost $$$. It is wishful thinking this late in the life of this generation car but it could be done, fiberglass perhaps.</p>
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<p>I’m diggin the new Coupe!!
..</p>