Is The Future of JCW Spelled “N20”?

The BMW N20 is the company’s latest 2.0L four cylinder engine and is destined for everything from the 1 to the 5 Series. And (based on well placed sources) it won’t stop there. We believe BMW will ultimately build a version for the front wheel drive UKL architecture and future MINIs.
But what would MINI used it for? We believe the Cooper S will stay with the current four cylinder ‘Prince’ power-plant and be revised with more power for the introduction of the third generation MINI. However at likely close to 190 hp, the 1.6L JCW engine starts to look a little less robust. Enter the N20.
BMW’s 2.0L engine produces up to 240hp in it’s normal guise. Could it be tweaked for front wheel drive duty and still be affordable within MINI’s economics? If so we’d imagine the engine being tuned to around 230 hp with loads of torque and a raucous JCW attitude similar to the current engine. This could give the powerplant more than enough to motivate the forthcoming JCW Countryman and enough to push the standard JCW hatch well into the five second range 0-60.
So what are the odds of all this happening? We’d give it better than 50/50. With front wheel drive BMW’s likely sharing the basic components of the FWD version of the N20, the economics likely make sense. The key will be how to tune it and that power figured they ultimately end up with.
You can read more about the N20 over at our sister site BimmerFile (our take and BMW’s own take).
58 Comments
<p>Sounds like a good mill that should leave plenty of room for tuning. Can’t go wrong with a Mitsubishi turbo. Now if they can just get that JCW premium down from 30% to a more reasonable 15%… </p>
<p>An interesting idea</p>
<p>The N20 corral could harness the extra horses needed to keep pace with the competition and offer JCW pilots the kind of thrill they desire. 230 ponies is not gargantuan by any means, but certainly respectable particularly with the added torque.</p>
<p>Speaking of torque, it may be a step in the right direction for the ultimate hatch to sport all motion AWD to avoid torque steer a la the VW R32. It will add weight, but the performance benefit will outweigh the ballast deficit.</p>
<p>I’m sure there will be an after-market tuner eager to transplant the N20 amidships and create a really wild and crazy GP successor. Ruf, the Porsche tuner, is rebuilding a “doner” Porsche into his own brand 247mph supercar. I would love to see a high-performance MINI D Hatch make some waves here in the U.S. Enough grassroots voices may compel MINI to hear our “Give us Diesel or Give us Death” cry and land some on our shores.</p>
<p>Time to save.</p>
<p>They better find away to put down the power efficiently, the r56 torque steers already. If ford can find a way to put down 350hp on a focus than mini can do as well.</p>
<p>The 2011 software update has (pretty miraculously) eliminated it. </p>
<p>quite “miraculous” indeed!</p>
<p>The UKL1 platform has been engineered for both front-drive and four-wheel drive, including F56. A 240bhp JCW version would most likely be hooked up to 4WD.</p>
<p>The UKL1 platform has been engineered for both front-drive and four-wheel drive, including F56. A 240bhp JCW version would most likely be hooked up to 4WD.</p>
<p>If you haven’t driven a 2011 R56, you should. The torque steer has been greatly reduced.</p>
<blockquote>We believe the Cooper S will stay with the current four cylinder
‘Prince’ power-plant and be revised with more power for the introduction
of the third generation MINI.</blockquote>
<p>What happened to the 3 cylinder?</p>
<p>The current 1.6 turbopetrol ‘S’ engine pushes out 181bhp, whereas the maximum power output of the N37 1.5 turbopetrol 3 cylinder engine is said to be about 160bhp, which is simply not enough for the ‘S’ version.</p>
<p>Did anyone notice that in the newly announced BMW i8 the petrol engine part is a 1.5l 3 cylinder? The announced numbers are 223hp/300Nm for the petrol part only.
Could there be a relation?</p>
<p>There are lots of models (especially outside the US) that are below the
Cooper S. They will all get the 3 Cylinder. And there’s still a chance BMW
could use the 3 for the MCS. But as it stands now it’ll only go up to 160hp
and we can’t see the MCS being competitive with that figure (without a
200-300 lbs weight reduction).</p>
<p>You had stated before that the 3 would be good for the same per cylinder HP as the N20. Three quarters of 240 is 180. When did the 160 limit come in? </p>
<p>It recently came from BMW themselves. Which to me indicates that either the engine isn’t ready for that much power or it doesn’t make as much economic sense given that BMW has two other four cylinders (the Prince engine and the N20).</p>
<p>That’s a shame. I was looking for a new engine in the new S model with much improved MGPs. Now its down to just a re-style.</p>
<p>Scratch that. Forget that part. Things may be changing…</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised to see the 3 cylinder output more than most of the 4 cylinder offerings. There is new tech that will get things pretty interesting. </p>
<p>Autocar reporting on its long term Countryman ‘S’ ALL4 this week said, “It’s too easy to say that MINI’s 1.6 turbopetrol engine is not suitable for the Countryman, but there’s no doubt that the firm’s impressive new turbodiesel 2.0L would be better. The lack of low-end torque meant that there was a very strong smell of burning clutch as we edged our way across a bumpy field”.</p>
<p>The 2.0L turbodiesel engine fitted to the Countryman ‘SD’ pushes out 141bhp and a massive 225 ft/lb torque, compared to the 1.6L turbopetrol Countryman ‘S’ at 181bhp and a rather weedy 177lb/ft torque. The turbodiesel engined car loses only 1 sec on the 0-60 sprint, in return for an impressive 50% increase in fuel economy.</p>
<p>I’m aware that turbodiesel engines will not be made available for MINIs sold in NA anytime soon, but that strenghens the case for the N20 petrol engine to be made available there, especially in the Countryman and the forthcoming Countryman Coupe. Herr26 recently hinted about a JCW 2.0L engined Countryman Coupe with 4WD. Now that would be fun.</p>
<p>Maybe the Chevy Cruze announcement to start selling a diesel in NA will help Mini decide to bring it over. </p>
<p>Maybe the Chevy Cruze announcement to start selling a diesel in NA will help Mini decide to bring it over. </p>
<p>Maybe the Chevy Cruze announcement to start selling a diesel in NA will help Mini decide to bring it over. </p>
<p>Please don’t do that ! A MINI is a small dynamic car. If putting a 2.0l engine in a countryman sounds reasonable, putting it in a JCW Hatch sounds to me like a big mistake. Sport cars must be light !</p>
<p>Please don’t do that ! A MINI is a small dynamic car. If putting a 2.0l engine in a countryman sounds reasonable, putting it in a JCW Hatch sounds to me like a big mistake. Sport cars must be light !</p>
<p>The N20 is no heavier than the current offerings</p>
<p>The 2.0L turbodiesel R56 ‘SD’ weighs 1225kg versus the 1.6L turbopetrol R56 ‘S’ at 1215kg. That’s just 10kg or 22lbs more. Nothing to worry about.</p>
<p>The other thing to consider here is that BMW has recently repackaged the “Prince” and will be using it for the foreseeable future in the newest gen 1 Series (1.6- 1.8). They switched from transverse to longitudinal with no issues. One must also think about SAAB and how the Prince engine they are to receive plays into all of this. Early rumors pointed at SAAB getting an updated version of the current JCW engine, that still has not shown its head and there are rumors that there are tri-turbo mills being worked on with 3 cylinders and can put out over 180hp….</p>
<p>I’d love to see the N20 in a Countryman and even the future “Space Box”</p>
<p>Still waiting to drive an SD!</p>
<p>Sounds great, especially with weights, it seems like, increasing every year. And, especially for the Countryman, which is already about 300 lbs heavier, not even talking about the all wheel drive.</p>
<p>Aside from platforms, I regard the new engines in the queue
to be of equal significance. To this end (vis-à-vis the most recent and
ostensibly “super sized”/oxymoronic MINI models currently available),
it would seem fitting to expand the scale of the engines as well. Admittedly,
shoehorning this appropriately oxymoronic “baby” into a MINI engine bay will take some Herculean engineering expertise, but I am sure that the capable “imagineers” at BMW/MINI are up to the
task. The engine is an inline- six diesel producing 7780 horsepower and weighs
in at a mere 2300 tons. Not enough Clydesdales? A 14 cylinder producing 108,920
hp @ 102 rpm could be an available option. To accommodate the six-cylinder
version,, The MINI would need to grow to at least 89 feet in length and 44 feet
in altitude to haul this RTA96C engine. This Maxi MINI will usher in a new era
of “unprecedented growth” providing consumers with a truly remarkable driving
experience.</p>
<p>I am not following your train of thought here- What is wrong with putting an engine of similar size, and weight that has more efficiency and power into a so called performance model? If you ask me the only oxymoron is JCW being a performance brand of the MINI family, not offering a factory body kit and a few HP increase has never had me think performance. The MINI JCW is supposed to be similar to ///M and it never has been, maybe this is the ticket and I am all for it. Will it take some shoehorning- sure but NOT in the Countryman which needs this engine to be the “S” anyways. </p>
<p>Purely satirical, Michael.</p>
<p>To answer your question, there is nothing wrong with your suggestion
whatsoever. Power-to-weight efficiency not only makes engineering sense, it
also makes environmental sense. And, Michael, I entirely agree that MINI has
failed to measure up to standards similar to BMW’s Motorsport (now M
division) models with its JCW options.</p>
<p>The body kit has been added as a standard feature on the 2012 MINI JCW all except for the clubman and will be available starting November production. As far as HP increase. Granted it is not enough IMO but a stock MCS has 181 and the JCW has 208 that is a 27 HP difference more then just a few.</p>
<p>I am fully aware the kit was added- but how long did it take? I understand the logistics at the plant but they could have made it a standard port installed option or better yet had a building down the street in Oxford equipped to do the same thing. </p>
<p>A 27 Hp difference that is in a technically less advanced engine than the “S” and that is being passed by even Renault and Citroen. JCW is just a marketing ploy that has nothing to stand on at this point, now that BMW Motorsport is getting involved with the Coupe and Countryman JCW may have some street credibility to warrant the extraneous price. I’d buy a JCW Countryman in a heartbeat IF it has the BMW N20 in it, it is a significant improvement over the JCW Prince and if the engineers have accomplished the near 6 cylinder smoothness with the balance shafts it will be worth its asking price.
I am sure there are many that would agree with me.</p>
<p>“now that BMW Motorsport is getting involved with the Coupe and Countryman”</p>
<p>Who currently assembles the JCW engines?</p>
<p>Make the gen3 car look great (like the gen1), keep it SMALL, then give it the healthy (and likely highly-tuneable) 2.0L turbo through an AWD sport-tuned chassis (absolutely <em>not</em> FWD!!), and MINI will once again be filed under “serious driver’s car” in my mental file cabinet. :)</p>
<p>With these specs the $50K is not far off and weight nearing 2 tons.</p>
<p>AWD typically adds 250lb to a chassis. Meaning that you could still hit 3000lb MAX with these “dream specs” if MINI wishes to. Of course, if they base it on the heavy R60, of course it would fail to meet weight target. But I don’t wish them to base it on the R60 – hence why I said it needs to be “small” (so based on the hatch, and preferably even smaller than the current hatch). </p>
<p>But as for price, I agree MINI would likely charge close to $50K for such a car… :)</p>
<p>Agree 100%</p>
<p>Presenting the diesel specifically designed for the MINI 2020. Yes, a small step for mankind and a mammoth leap for MINI. This masterpiece of reverse engineering that had perplexed many of the world’s preeminent automotive designers and engineers until the masterminds at MINI met the challenge. Unfortunately, images of the RMMM (code name for the Mighty Macro Mini) model, now in final stages of prototype development, have not yet been released. Our crafty shutterbug sleuth however did manage to snap just one image (see below) of the new MINI motor.</p>
<p>Does this mean BMW/MINI can perhaps put in the N47 (turbo diesel 4 banger) into the Countryman and /or other MINI models as well? Of course all that would be meaningless to me if they don’t sell it in the US :(</p>
<p>They can put it in there (Countryman) and with the recent announced change at the top of BMWNA and future EPA numbers the small diesels are coming- if MINI is included in this push I’d be surprised though as the new 3 cylinder petrols will perform at the levels needed to propel a MINI at a reasonable pace (same as current offerings) with excellent economy. Heavier models and BMWs will need the additional torque a diesel can offer. That is not to say the Countryman will or won’t see a diesel- it depends on what BMWNA chooses to federalize and if it can be effectively packaged. The other question is if the new diesels will need Urea injection like the current six cylinder does as this presents a huge packaging issue in the current MINI chassis and is not economically feasible until the next generation comes. </p>
<p>We’ll see. I hope we can drive a Countryman SD to at least see if it makes sense from a cost and driving perspective.</p>
<p>The N20 for the JCW would be a welcome addition that would get them out of the current low production Prince JCW platform, and really make a difference to the JCW line that would actually justify the premium charged.</p>
<p>Before there wasn’t enough differentiation between the JCW and the S for me to even consider the upgrading to a JCW. This is a change I can totally understand.</p>
<p>Correct me if i am wrong, but I thought the Prince motor designation was the motor in the r53, which was built in conjunction with chrysler?</p>
<p>Mark</p>
<p>That was the Tritec in the R50 and supercharged for the R53.</p>
<p>The R56 debuted the Prince family which has been revised heavily once for the NA version and again for the turbo version.</p>
<p>The N20 is the new turbo four from the new family of BMW engines.</p>
<p>No that’s the Tritec.</p>
<p>I had my ’11 Pepper White JCW lower brake ducts/intakes painted CR to match my CR roof and mirrors. I note from the photo that MINI is following my lead. I guess I am just a trend setter. Nick (:</p>
<p>I had my ’11 Pepper White JCW lower brake ducts/intakes painted CR to match my CR roof and mirrors. I note from the photo that MINI is following my lead. I guess I am just a trend setter. Nick (:</p>
<p>I had my ’11 Pepper White JCW lower brake ducts/intakes painted CR to match my CR roof and mirrors. I note from the photo that MINI is following my lead. I guess I am just a trend setter. Nick (:</p>
<p>Two mantras we should be chanting: 1) D-I-E-S-E-L and 2) A-W-D
Urea injection is not always necessary. The smaller displacement TDI engines meet EPA using EGR.</p>
<p>VW does it by dropping compression ratio (along with the EGR) a bit to keep combustion temps down and hence oxides of nitrogen. One must pay the piper somehow.</p>
<p>And as many have said, the MINI AWD system is far from the most sporting out there.</p>
<p>Really, I don’t understand at all why getting the JCW somewhere close to the power output of the other players in the segment would have any downside. Most mags aren’t even putting the MINI JCWs in hot hatch comparos any more. Sure, it’s got a great chassis and can handle well, but they are losing a lot of buyers by not even being close to competitive in engine output specs.</p>
<p>Think of what M cars would be if they just had a bit more on tap than the base cars. BMW calls those S models, and they are a slight bump over the standard fare. nice cars, yes, but not an M.</p>
<p>I would have been a perfect target for the JCW brand, but skipped it because I didn’t see the premium as being worth it. My mods get you where JCW does and beyond for a lot less. Some real product differentiation beyond red stiching and some badges is what will take me, and those that think like me, into the JCW fold. Till then, the value statement of JCW doesn’t work (for me, for others where it does, I’m all happy for them).</p>
<p>Gabe,</p>
<p>Afte clicking the “About Us” and “Contact” buttons of this site, I have failed to access a means to contact you outside the context of a Forum topic. Please provide a means for contacting you directly. Thank you kindly — HD</p>
<p>If you fill out the contact form Gabe will reply back, it shoots it to him. We usually refrain from posting our email addresses bc spam bots pick them up and that is the end of the email address !</p>
<p>D-I-E-S-E-L…
A-W-D…</p>
<p>3-0-0-H-P…
R-W-D …</p>
<p>Slide that N20 into a JCW Roadster. And then try wiping the smile off my face.</p>
<p>No!!! My wife X1 28i is using the N20 engine. 241PS
Definitely too much for a Mini….</p>
<p>Did anyone notice that in the newly announced BMW i8 the petrol engine part is a 1.5l 3 cylinder? The announced numbers are 223hp/300Nm for the petrol part only.Could there be a relation?</p>