Opinion: Who Is MINI’s Real Competition?

Yesterday we shared a story from Advertising Age about how MINI is expanding its Not Normal campaign. According to the AA story, MINI is intensifying their marketing efforts because “competition has started to ding the brand as rivals like Chevy introduce a widening array of small, fuel-efficient cars.” That Chevy they’re referring to is the Chevy Spark, a car which starts at just $12,999. While yes, both cars are small and fuel-efficient, there’s something about this premise doesn’t quite line up for me. Sure, Chevy sold more Sparks in the US in July than MINI sold MINIs, but is MINI really competing with Chevy for the same buyers?
Sure, in the grand sense, everybody is competing with everybody else when it comes to selling Jane Q. Public an automobile. Most people only own one or two cars at a time, so in one respect, all cars compete against all other cars. Yet when it comes to what cars are truly cross-shopped in a significant way, that’s where a brand’s real competitors come into focus. That competition also changes based on the brand’s perception in one market vs. another. So for simplicity’s sake, let’s stick to the US market.
Sometimes the story of MINI’s success in the US market is told as being a story of “small.” While small is a huge part of MINI’s brand, the deeper story of MINI’s US success lay in the MINI being one of the first nice small cars offered here. The term “premium small car” gets used a lot, and MINI is credited with creating this segment out of thin air. It’s not as though there weren’t other small cars being sold in the US market in 2002. Yet sometimes the origins of MINI in the US is told as though MINI defined the small car segment as a whole. This seems to be the basis of Advertising Age‘s point of view, but by a lot of key metrics, it just isn’t true. MINI didn’t bring small to the USA. Instead, MINI made small cool in a way it had never been before. That’s an important distinction that puts cars like the Chevy Spark in a different perspective.
If we hop in The Wayback Machine to 2002, we can take a quick snapshot of what other small cars were available. Toyota had the Echo, which later became the Yaris. GM offered the Chevy Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire as compact two-doors. VW sold the new Beatle as well as a two-door version of the GTI. Toyota still sold the Celica and that generation of Honda’s Civic Si is thought of by most to be the last “fun” version of that car Honda ever made. A few years on, Scion had their tC, which had basically identical power, torque and weight figures to the Cooper S, and for $8,000 less money. There were others, but you get the idea. While the MINI was definitely smaller overall than most of these cars, it wasn’t by orders of magnitude.
MINI pioneered the idea in America that a small car could be more than just an “econo-box” that got good gas mileage because it was tiny. A MINI wasn’t simply small. It was nice. It was sophisticated. It was a “baby BMW.” It had all sorts of cool design details and came in lots of interesting colors and available options. It also had creature comfort features and premium components like Xenon headlights that simply weren’t available on other small cars at the time. Most of all, unlike most of the small economy cars that came before it, the MINI was fun as hell to drive. Lesser talked about, the MINI was also safe in a way few small cars before it had been. The R50/R53 had a 4-star frontal offset crash rating. The R56 later bumped that up to a 5-star rating. Small was cool and safe in America for the first time ever.
So let’s skip forward to this past July, when the sales of the Chevy Spark outpaced sales of the MINI Cooper/S. Does this make the Chevy Spark a major MINI contender? I say no. There are a lot of cars that outsold MINI last month. Furthermore, the Spark starts at $12,999, and the MINI Cooper starts at $19,700. I find it incredibly unlikely that these two cars were seriously cross-shopped on any factor besides price. When you’ve got a nearly $7,000 price differential, you don’t have the same customers. That is to say, when price is the only thing that really matters, lower will always win.
Also, this entire argument that Chevy sales numbers equal competition falls apart upon looking at MINI’s other (and in my opinion, more direct) rivals. Let’s look at VW, for example. VW USA sold 2,666 Golfs in July of this year, compared to 2,485 MINI Cooper/S sales (which was a record for MINI USA, by the way). Those sales for VW were actually down -33.5% over 2012. The new, new Beetle sold even better in July, with 2,715 units of the hardtop coupe alone going out the door. These cars are much more comparably priced to the MINI, and have been on the market just as long. Thing is, these VWs have always outsold MINI on volume. So has pretty much everybody else. Sales numbers are not a new threat for MINI. In fact, MINI’s never been the segment leader when you look at truly comparable cars. However MINI does continue to sell cars pretty much as fast as they can build them. There comes a point for a small automaker where only so much demand can be serviced, but back to that notion of competition.
Truth is, MINIs are cross-shopped with all sorts of different cars. From Toyota Prius hybrids to Porsche 911s. The diversity of the MINI lineup lets people come to the brand for a lot of different reasons, and for a lot of different needs. I would posit, however, that any shopper who first drove a MINI Cooper at their local dealer, then went across town and bought a Chevy Spark wasn’t ever serious about the MINI in the first place. Furthermore, there’s nothing wrong with that. Maybe they just didn’t like it. Or maybe they will aspire to a MINI someday when they can better afford one. Nothing wrong there either.
So all of this is to say that while Advertising Age has done a great job capturing the cross-section of MINI’s marketing efforts (clever outdoor advertising, more fun PR stunts, more TV commercial presence, leveraging the owner community), I think they’ve failed to really capture MINI’s competitive landscape. Sure, there are a few more small cars on the market, but when it comes to “nice” small cars, I don’t personally see a lot more competition than has really existed all along. That people seem to forget about the VW GTI is perhaps a brand failing on VW’s part. The more recent newcomer, the Fiat 500, hasn’t been selling well at all (and they’re all but giving them away here in Chicago), so its actual threat to MINI seems minimal.
In my opinion, MINI’s brand and marketing challenges have always been grounded more in awareness. While the Mini brand had a worldwide heritage presence, very few people knew the MINI brand when it came back to America at the turn of this century. Most Americans just didn’t have a history with the car or a clear sense of what the MINI has to offer. This led to a world of misconceptions that all of us earlier MINI owners encountered every time we’d stop to get gas.
“Is that thing electric?”
“I would have bought a Cooper Mini, but I’m not going to pay $40,000 for one.”
At present, MINI still struggles with brand and model awareness in the market at large. Dealer sources often tell us that people come in thinking the Coupe has a power folding roof and asking if the Countryman comes in a convertible. It’s almost like most people hear about the brand by rumor, and without talking to any actual owners. Meanwhile in the corner of the dealership is a Paceman they’ve never even heard of. What MINI has the opportunity to do here through the Not Normal campaign as well as through expansions in to targeted TV commercials, is to simply make more people aware that MINI is an established brand with a lot to offer. MINI will do this indirectly, of course, through things like the Not Normal campaign. They have to paint MINI as remarkable, to apply naked Seth Godin theology to the problem. The job of any one of these advertising efforts is, more or less, to simply get people to MINI’s website or into the dealership. At that point they can learn the ins and outs of the model lineup. In the meantime, MINI will continue to win sales — not on “small” and definitely not on “cheap” — Chevy can have those sales. Those were never really MINI customers in the first place. The opportunity, on the other hand, is to go find those MINI fans in the marketplace who simply don’t know yet that they’re MINI fans.
Let’s open this up. Who do YOU think are MINI’s real competitors? What did you cross shop and why did you choose MINI?
123 Comments
<p>As a Motoring Advisor at Tom Bush MINI in Jax, FL, often our shoppers are…. Not cross shoppers at all. I can’t count how often I get someone that is looking at a Jeep Wrangler… Or a MINI Hardtop, or a CLK 500… It seems like the only thing in common between any of these vehicles is fun, style, and the ability to say something. Most people come in expecting to spend more than they have to. And most people don’t have a clue about a MINI except they see the local MINI club at various restaurants and ice cream joints around town on Fridays. They are looking for a sense of self and community they they haven’t found before. They’re tired of driving Silver Camrys and White Civics. They’re tired of driving a truck just to haul nothing or drive a Suburban to be the only motorist in it. They want the freedom of expression that MINI offers, that no other brand has been able to truly offer…</p>
<p>For me, this is easy. I want a small electric car with at least some nod toward European sensibilities. I’ve been a MINI owner since 2003, and after a decade I was looking to upgrade to the latest MINI. Surely BMW would have alternative engines for my beloved by 2013. (Electric is the single most important thing to me.) An electric MINI, redesign notwithstanding, would be my perfect car. But no, MINIs have only been getting more bloated, and BMW’s only nod toward electric is a horror show that resembles a Pontiac Aztek. “But, but, but…” I’ve heard all the justifications here. That’s fine, but it doesn’t address my needs.</p>
<p>So, meantime, I’ve been to the local Fiat showroom three times in as many months. As I’m in California, the 500e is big here (sold out till 2014), and I’m on the verge of adding my name to the queue in the next month. Is the Fiat perfect? What car is? But the timing couldn’t be more right, and my frustration with BMW has become so profound that it’s nice to have an alternative. I don’t have to wait for BMW. I can lease an electric car for three years, then check back in to see if y’all have come to your senses.</p>
<p>(Hopefully not too many people will agree with me, or my wait for a Fiat will be longer, and there won’t be a MINI in four years!)</p>
<p>Yep, a MINIe would be great. So would a twin-turbo MINI. MINI is a niche brand (small numbers of cars sold) so expecting them to be able to compete technologically with a full-electric is a bit unfair. BMW’s electric i-car will give some indication of the electric’s sell-ability in the U.S. Right now, there is not much nationwide interest, at least not enough for MINI to get in the fray. I loike the 500 too, but it in no way compares to the MINI Cooper. But we all have our likes…</p>
<p>Not saying BMW are “wrong” not to embrace newer technologies across their lineup. But consumers have options, and the more forward thinking of us will simply take our business elsewhere. I’m still a fan of the MINI concept, but I’m even more of a fan of not going to gas stations anymore. So I’ll check back in on the MINI ecosystem in a few years to see if they’ve made any real progress, beyond fancy new headlights and paint options.</p>
<p>I was just talking to my wife about MINI competitors yesterday. I don’t think the biggest threat to MINI’s sales is a Spark. The new CLA and, more importantly, the GLA have huge potential in my eyes. MINI is a ‘premium’ brand to many I guess, but it still, in terms of quality, can’t even compete with entry level premium brands like Acura. Now you can get a brand new, and better looking, Mercedes GLA for the same money as a Countryman. I want to like MINI, but they are going to need to step up their game or lower their prices significantly.</p>
<p>The Yaris in the US in 2002? THE VW “Beatle?” Styling “queues?” Golly, what’s it like being a professional writer?</p>
<p>The quality of all cars has SKYROCKETED since 2002. Especially the american made cars. We recently bought a Nissan Versa Hatch. It handles well, and the CVT is adequate. We love the Bluetooth, although it is simply easier to say call number and say the number than it is to look up a number. Yes the seats sit up way too high almost like a Minivan. Yes the dash is Plastic. But the bottom line is that we needed transportation and could not afford, “luxury” of a MINI. Yes it sucked not being able to order a car built to my specs and the lack of a manual was quite painful to get used to. No we didn’t have the freedom of expression that you-ification offers</p>
<p>The SD card to update the maps is $200 every year. But why bother Everyone has a smart phone and Google Maps. Chevy is quite smart to allow you to bring your own Navigation on the spark.</p>
<p>But back to the Nissan. As a former MINI Owner (2006 R50) you think I am crazy for going to Nissan. Bottom line it is all economics. We simply could not get into a FWD Countryman for the money that we got into the Nissan. to get into a similar equip Countryman, It would have been more than $11,000 more. Exactly $11,000 out of our budget.</p>
<p>smart phone for Nav…..Such a a great idea that is hard to believe Chevy is the first. Dodge Dart giving us a configurable dash. This is the ‘Not Normal’ innovation MINI should be developing. Give me a larger touch screen and a few apps for my smart phone and I will be happy. Innovate MINI Innovate. That is what brought me to you in 2002….oh yeah, give me the go-cart handling that is still with my 2002 MCS with the original stiffer shocks.</p>
<p>I was thinking about this the other day, when Mini still doesn’t have iPhone 5 support, and I can’t stream music through my bluetooth, the innovation seems to be gone. Sure, the car is fun and pretty, but as more non-luxury cars come with better standard feautures, Mini is losing a lot of ground on the “premium sell” and definitely on innovation.</p>
<p>Bluetooth music streaming worked on both of our long term loaners, and the iPhone 5 dock is due out in about a month.</p>
<p>How did you make it happen on the iphone 5? Mini Service said it wasn’t possible.</p>
<p>The pairing procedure isn’t different between the iPhone 5 or the 4/4s. It’s the same menu in the OS.</p>
<p>So the dock will be out in time for the iPhone 5S/5C? It’s sad that their official solution is to use an over priced adapter from Apple to connect your phone.</p>
<p>I wish they would bother to give Android basic support, and not be tied to Apple.</p>
<p>Fiat 500, (and the new 500L), VW Beetle. End of story.</p>
<p>Totally agree… our second car is a Fiat 500 and driving it is as fun as a MINI. Yes, it is cheaper but in spirit is the same.</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree. To me, the Fiat feels a lot cheaper than MINI, and the handling and power just isn’t there. It’s also too tall and not wide enough, so on roads a 500 looks top heavy and goofy.</p>
<p>When I bought my Mini a few years ago other cars I were looking at: VW Golf (or GTI), Mazda 3, Kia Soul. Baisically I wanted a fun hatch.</p>
<p>What made MINI come out on top for you?</p>
<p>Earlier this year, I was 4 years into my second beloved MINI a pepper white Clubman S with a black top and 18-in murdered-out rims, when all of the the sudden several friends’ MINI’s began suffering from this horrible timing chain syndrome. With no warrantee to protect me, I found myself with a half hour to spare at a VW dealer. They made it INCREDIBLY easy and affordable to step right into a brand new four door GTI. Straight up made me Godfather-esque offer that I couldn’t refuse. And honestly I’ve LOVED driving it. Do I miss my Clubman? Very much. Do I miss the MINI brand? Not nearly as much as I thought I would. I dunno. I get that LET’S MOTOR has run it’s course as primary messaging, but I guess I consider myself a pretty normal guy so NOT NORMAL has fallen completely flat for me. Will I own another MINI? Absolutely. But for the first time in 7 years, it’s been fun to let myself be attracted to other hot hatches such as GTIs, Beetle Turbos, Fiat Abarths and oddly enough even the occasional Veloster Turbo. I can also say that my Clubman was also always a hit with the WRX/Lancer crowd. So the bottom line is this MINIs are not for everyone and shouldn’t be. But they ARE for normal people who crave for the ideal balance of: performance (a.k.a. motoring), design, a mixture of economy and luxury… and last but not least a dash of personality. But when you’ve made me out to be not normal for craving these things… you’ve lost me.</p>
<p>well put</p>
<p>I have a 2006 MINI Cooper S, I have owned since new. Love my car and will be replacing it next year. I will consider MINI. However with with the price/value equation will cross shop more brands than I did last time around. I will cross shop the VW GTD & GTI, Ford Focus Titanium and ST, and others. I see the two major issues for MINI (hopefully solved with the new car) as price/value and their automatic transmission options. MINI’s with Automatic trans are not fun at all. This is an issue for myself as without another sell job on the wife (refuses to learn or drive a stick) I will be buying an automatic.</p>
<p>I might cross shop a Countryman against a Subi, and the Cooper & MCS against VWs when I shop next, but I am still enjoying my 06 MC. It is running good and has to many miles on it to fetch a great trade deal. Actually because I am now retired I might go in a completely different direction and get an old Jeep or a hobby car that I can restore.
What worries me most with the the view of who is the competition is that someone at MINI HQ is looking to down market the car. A few years ago I would have discounted the idea, but with the new FWD BMW I wonder.</p>
<p>MINI has many competitors and none at all. It all depends on what you want the vehicle for. I want fun, some practicality, enough power to make progress, a good drive and an attractive design. I will shortly consider my next car. Before I sign the dotted line on an F56 MCS I will consider second hand M5s and Boxsters to new A4 and CLA saloons. For me I’m not buying the MINI because it’s a small car. I’m buying the MINI because it’s fun and once I’ve finished with the options list I will consider it a comfortable premium car. The closest competitor is the Fiat 500, but like many I consider the MINI to be the more premium choice that is better engineered.</p>
<p>When I read that line yesterday about the Spark I too thought it an odd comparison. And until you posted this today with a Spark pictured had no idea what one even was.
Totally different customers.</p>
<p>Being 73 years old, I can review a good many years of my car ownership. Back in the 1960, early 70’s, I had many small, all foreign made vehicles…most were used, a couple were new. They ranged from a pair of 10 year old 1952 Jag XK120’s (a coupe & a roadster), a new 1965 Austin Healey Sprite, an 8 year old 1958 Porsche 356A Coupe that cost me $800 plus another $600 for an engine, clutch overhaul…then driven 100K miles with no sig problems (one of my most favorite cars ever), a new 1972 Honda Z600 Sport Coupe that was about the size of the early classic Mini right down to the 10″ wheels.</p>
<p>From the 1970’s to the 2000’s, raising a family etc entering retirement., I had mainly a mix of Toyotas & Hondas. So, essentially most all of my vehicles were small…from Japan, the UK, & Germany. Dependability was tops in all of those from Japan & the old Porsche. As for 2 old Jags, I spent more time trying to keep them running than I did driving them (and looking for ways to keep them from overheating if i hit 3 traffic lights in a row!). I kept the new Sprite for only 9 months & I sold it after ongoing transmission problems that began at only 4K miles & never seems completely right after it was fixed. The car that I replaced the Sprite with…the 8 year old Porsche…never regretted it!</p>
<p>Which bring me up to the past 6 years…2 new MINIS… a 2008 MCS hatch & currently a 2012 JCW Coupe. What do all of those cars that I had in the 1960’s, early 70’s, AND my latest 2 MINIS have in common…they were ALL fun to drive, quirky, each in its own way…even those that were less than reliable. I put both my MINIs at the top of that FUN list, but leaving some room for the ol’ Porsche.</p>
<p>Now, I may look to the larger more practical S Paceman (if a larger 2 door MINI hatch can be considered practical…at least more so than my current JCW Coupe) perhaps as early as next fall for the 2015 model year. I think that MINI will continue to have its nitch across the model range… but with more competition as other makes produce models that can compete directly with MINI. It’s not for everyone…never was…but will always have its following…just like other makes have theirs. I just happen to be a big MINI fan.</p>
<p>As a current MINI owner who will probably buy another car within the next 5 years, here’s a list of not-MINI cars that I’ve given some thought to buying instead:</p>
<p>Fiat 500
Subaru BRZ
Nissan Leaf
BMW 1-series
BMW 3-series
BMW i3
Merc C-class</p>
<p>That being said, the car I think I would be most excited about (apart from the i3… that looks very interesting) is a MINI roadster based on the F56 platform.</p>
<p>I cross-shopped a Cube (don’t laugh), and a MINI – I wanted something <em>different</em>, and I wasn’t as price-sensitive. I wanted to get something I loved. I test drove the MINI first – driving the Cube felt like driving a flimsy cardboard box in comparison. It’s obvious now, but I chose the MINI and never looked back.</p>
<p>The Cube is one of the most interesting looking cars to go into real world production in a long time. Too bad it’s not a better car.</p>
<p>I would have actually considered it a bit longer if it hadn’t felt so <em>cheap</em>. I think MINIs advantages are in the “different”…if they could manage to make it even <em>more</em> customizable, or emphasize the customizability more in targeted advertising, that’d be a huge selling point for the artist/designer types.</p>
<p>Funny, with so many dealers ordering “lot cars” and pushing them over ordering (as is the case here in Southern California), I feel that MINI has lost some of that unique customization. I think some of the MINI dealer uniqueness has gone as well, leaving it to be a lot like buying any other car and that is not what the brand was founded on. It seems a lot LESS NOT NORMAL than 2002-2006.</p>
<p>Our info is that this transition is much more tied to customer demand than dealers pushing a particular agenda. American buyers want to show up and buy something off the lot. They don’t want to wait weeks and weeks for a particular car to show up. In fact, back when a much larger number of MINIs were custom ordered, a common customer complaint at the dealers was “why can’t I just buy one off the lot?” As for customization, there are far more options available now than in the first generation of the cars, and customers are still able to order cars from the factory to their own spec. That hasn’t changed. Unfortunately, however, many of the off-the-lot cars ordered by dealers don’t have key, must-have options selected like Xenon headlights. So that ultimately hurts MINI value in the secondary markets because there are a bunch of MINIs out there that ought to be much better cars than they are, but they were spec’d improperly.</p>
<p>You mean that will ultimately help the value of my properly-spec’d MINI on the secondary market… =)</p>
<p>Yes that too!</p>
<p>” As for customization, there are far more options available now than in the first generation of the cars”</p>
<p>Not true. For the 1st Gen on the configurator it stated more than 20 million combinations, since 2006/2007 it states “10 million combinations”</p>
<p>!st Gen: 3 different options for 15 wheel, 4 $0 dollar body color choices (vs. 3 now), 3 different $0 interior surface color choices Including anthracite (vs.1), 2 different steering wheel choices, single CD or multi CD changer, Chrono package (2005-2006), bumper inserts (black or chrome).</p>
<p>There are more expensive cost option now and a lot more dealer installed options. But less choices in body color, steering wheel type, $0 cost option interior surfaces and only 1 standard ($0) 15″ wheel choice.</p>
<p>There are more combo package options now but the problem with that, Mini has limited or does not allow to get a single option without package. Example, Black headlight housing (have to get pkg) adaptive headlights (have to get pkg), auto-dimming outside mirrors (only via pkg). Lots more. All these should be available Ala-cart. That’s what made Mini different from other car companies.</p>
<p>That’s not the case at all. I just configured a car a couple days ago and everything is still ala carte. Some things still have constituent parts though. Black headlights, for example, don’t require a package, but they do require Xenons because it’s a Xenon option. Many items are bundled in packages, but you’re not required to add the package and they’re all available as single selections, albeit in other sections of the Configurator.</p>
<p>Well I can’t agree. What does a person have to get Xenon lights to get Black headlight housing? it should be available for any style headlight. If I want autodim rear and outside mirrors why does it also have to include heated mirrors? As Jeremy Clarkson would say, “that’s just stuuuupid.” 🙂 I know some folks might state, “well you can’t (or don’t) get to do this with other car manufactures” that’s the point a buying a Mini (other reasons too), Mini are not “other car manufactures”. Mini even made that clear. Due to Mini I believe that made other manufactures have configurators on their sites.</p>
<p>Nathaniel I think we just see it different, that’s all. Different opinions. Cheers.</p>
<p>I lurve my dealer in Plano, TX. The Dallas location wasn’t as well-run, but the Plano location is run by the Sewell auto group (luxury dealer), and has a funky, fun vibe. I love bringing my German Shepherd in with me when I get my car serviced. And he loves the attention and the TREATS! ;)</p>
<p>For me it came down to getting the smallest car possible when I bought my 06 Cooper. I bought my 12 Coupe because I really liked the styling and some of the tech upgrades. But as was mentioned in this thread quality is up across the board. While I love all of the customization available when buying a MINI it’s quite likely that my next car won’t be a MINI unless the value/price ratio improves considerably. Given how little I drive I can easily see spending a lot less on another brand. And now that more smaller cars with a bit of style are out there I think the process will be quite interesting. I also have been finding that having a bit more room in the car is somewhat more desirable to me than it was before. Still love being able to jam may car into tiny parking spaces in the city though.</p>
<p>Having attended several MINI Canada events (Rock the rivals, etc) MINI is often pitted against: Volkswagen Golf, nissan sentra hatch and anotehr i don;t recall. the Countryman by comparision was against the Nissan Juke (puke) and the VW tiguan
the spark? gimme a break..</p>
<p>I had owned several VWs (GTIs, New Beetles, Cabrios and NB Cabrios) before stepping over to the dark side in 2005 with a MINI Cooper S Conv. Sure it was pricier, but it was well optioned, linked to the BMW brand, had a cult following (like my Wrangler and VW Beetles) and SO MUCH FUN to drive. As far as competitors go, the Spark could not be further from the target. However I agree that depending on what you are using the MINI for, it can have a wide array of possibilities. A base Cooper could be compared to a Spark (more likely the Sonic, though), Versa, Yaris, Accent, Rio, etc. But with its premium status, it (and the Cooper S/Countryman/Paceman) is more akin to the Fiat 500/500c/500L, VW Golf/GTI/Beetle, Audi A3 and upcoming MB CLA/GLA.</p>
<p>I just bought a Cooper S about three months ago… here’s what I cross-shopped (that is, these are the cars I actually drove and seriously considered):</p>
<ul>
<li>Fiat 500 Abarth (cheap, cramped)</li>
<li>Subaru BRZ (no power, bad blind spots)</li>
<li>Ford Focus ST (artificial, cheap)</li>
<li>Mazda Miata (dated-looking, down on power)</li>
<li>Volvo C30 (dealer was a prick)</li>
</ul>
<p>Of these, I was down to the C30, BRZ and Miata… with the Miata being in front (I had a ’99 Miata I loved). I drove the MINI last, but one drive was all I needed, and the deal was done the next day.</p>
<p>We all have opinions and I take it at that. I drove a Focus ST at a local Ecoboost Challenge. I found that car equal to a MINI on all fronts quality, handling, looks, overall style, and fit and finish inside and out.The car also was a total blast to drive.</p>
<p>If I could enter and exit past the Focus ST’s pretentiously raked windscreen and little 4 doors on a chassis big enough for 2, I might be driving one now. It’s not equal on that front. My 2011 MCSm fits my aging back as no other car that I have tried.</p>
<p>I hear ya. The angle of the windshield on the MINI has spoiled me rotten to every other vehicle I ever get into.</p>
<p>I know – I now hate raked windshields. Feels cramped, dumps sun in your lap, makes the car hot…</p>
<p>You know, when I first got into a MINI on my test drive (had never driven been inside one previously), I commented to my wife that the windshield seemed very far away. Really, it was the angle… the BRZ or Miata, of course, have windshields very close to your head due to the rake. So, the MINI is just different… but I love it.</p>
<p>The rake on the Coupe and the Roadster is 16º steeper, which does bring the brow of the car closer to your head, but yeah, it’s still better than most other cars out there in terms of ingress/egress.</p>
<p>Problem is the Price to Value equation is not there. The Focus ST loaded up is THOUSANDS cheaper than a MINI. The MINI’s interior is probably a little better, but not enough to justify the price difference. Combine that with the fact the Focus will run with the JCW for the price of a MCS. Lastly the Focus will be Significantly cheaper to service.</p>
<p>Except that value is as subjective as the rest of it. Different people value different things. For some, it’s horsepower-per-dollar. For others, it’s MPG. For others its exclusivity and uniqueness. None of these are better measures of value than the others, but it definitely differs from person to person. We all have things we’re willing to pay for, and things we’re not.</p>
<p>Value is different things to different people, totally agreed. However in my opinion MINI is losing the value war big time. Take the Focus out of the argument totally. The VW GTI is just as good in every aspect as a MINI and I would say the interior is better. Barring a huge catchup by MINI in terms of Value with the new car, my business will be with VW, Ford, or elsewhere.</p>
<p>GTI has a much better automatic transmission option as well.</p>
<p>Very true. Between all the aforementioned features, plus the DSG transmission the more it adds up my next vehicle most likely will be a GTI or GTD.</p>
<p>In the UK the latest Golf GTi costs around £26-£27k dependent on transmission, sport pack etc. That’s significantly more than a base Cooper S (£18-£19k) and still a lot more with many options ticked.</p>
<p>Yeah, it’s just an opinion. Though my wife was even more critical of the Focus, actually… she thought it was basically just cheap and nasty. I mean, they try really hard with the Recaros and the sound tube so you can hear the engine, etc. But the materials… the plastics are just very plasticky. I don’t know, but BMW knows how to do materials better. The Focus felt like a cheap car made fast. The MINI feels like an expensive car made fun.</p>
<p>A lot of people ding the MINI for its interior plastics, and while they’re certainly still plastic, I do wonder what other cars they’re actually comparing too.</p>
<p>The one thing I do value/like from Mini vs others, Mini has one of the best leatherette in the industry. VW don’t even offer it. To get leather you have to upgrade to a pkg as is with other cars. In a Focus you have to get the Titanium model for leather. Also, the new focus has lots o fautomatic transmission problems. Go to the NHTSA site and you’ll see lots of complaints.</p>
<p>Mini has it’s interior faults but in other cars under the $25,000 price I find they are worse in most cases.</p>
<p>I believe people ding the Mini for the interior plastics because Mini labeled themselves a “Premium” car. Other cars in that class size haven’t. When you call you self “premium” people expect better because they’re also paying more.</p>
<p>Back about 1962, as a freshman in high school, I really lusted after a Mini. When I graduated from college in 1972, my first car was a Honda 600 Coupe. At the time, it was their spin on Issigonis’ design. However, after 47 years, the lust was finally satiated when I bought a 2009 factory JCW MINI Clubman. When I bought it, I wasn’t looking at any other marque. I chose it because there is nothing like it. There are some others that, in theory should be competition, but in reality that are not. They all fall short in one way or another.</p>
<p>Even after taking a second stab at it, and attempting to correct the errors I pointed out, you still misspelled Beetle. Unless you think it was built by four British musicians.</p>
<p>When i was shopping back in late 05 early 06 I was looking at the golf, A3, civic, mazda3 and C30. the civic was at the end of it’s cycle so was dated and hated the new dash coming, the vw reliability was a concern and wasn’t crazy about the interior, the mazda’s cheap interior killed it for me, the A3/30 it was just the price. Ultimately I sat in a mini at the jax car show and that was it for me, test drive sealed it. Today I’d cross shop the focus and golf, a golf variant would win as mini’s design has lost me.</p>
<p>I bought my MINI in Germany, which is the perfect place for it. I looked at the Beetle, some sporty Saab, and the Volvo C70. I only drove one, the MINI, and my interest for any of the others was lost in the bliss.</p>
<p>MINI has done a marvelous thing to differentiate its offering from the market. It’s a niche of its own. IMHO Subi WRX or the STI are the closes rivals. All the others are just following the market trends…</p>
<p>I’m currently shopping for a new car and was hoping to get another Mini JCW, just need to switch to an automatic, but the prices are just too high. Not to mention they gave me a terrible value on my spotless 2011 JCW. While I love driving my Mini and the handling is great. It’s not worth $10,000 over what a fully loaded GTI is. Sad to say I’m leaving Mini because of there pricing.</p>
<p>You’ll always do better in the private market than trade-in.</p>
<p>I understand the reasoning, but the MINI was never intended to be a commodity car. On the other hand, that’s what VW does and that’s you will see a lot of Golfs that will look substantially like the GTI. And, this is NOT a direct comparison. Although the GTI has about the same power compared to the JCW Hardtop, it is 355 lb heavier, .6 sec slower to 60 mph and gets 4mpg less on the highway (both with manual gearbox) and only 5 color choices versus 11. Although I didn’t try to configure a “fully loaded GTI”, the base prices are $6000 apart. I’m at a loss to understand $10,000.</p>
<p>Interesting to see this post in my current situation. I just sold my 2004 BMW 545i and am actively looking for my latest purchase. I have owned 2 MCSc’s in the past, a 2005 and a 2010. I am looking at new Abarth convertibles, Ford ST’s, VW R’s, and everything else used. 1-2 year old low mileage C30’s, Audi S4’s, 996 model 911’s, 135i’s, and even Cayennes, and MINI JCW’s.. My major criteria in my search are that they must be manual and have very low mileage. I also look for loaded examples and something that may be an unusual color both in paint and interior. I have even looked at Aston Martin Volante’s but was scared off by shaky quality after reading through some forums. I am currently trying to purchase a very nice JCW from Orlando MINI but the experience so far has been mediocre and it almost feels like they don’t need the business. I am gravitating towards the Abarth now but will continue to keep my eyes open for something interesting.</p>
<p>MINIs should always be a visceral decision as many people have mentioned, but I do think it was easier to rationalize the cost premium of the earlier MINIs. You could say the earlier MINIs punched above their weight, the David vs Goliath. Firstly you could get features not available on any other car and you had a car that was easily and noticeably better drive than any car in its class and often better than cars costing more. It either had more power and a better power-to-weight ratio that competitors and often offered as good if not better fuel economy. Today there are a lot of small cars which while not being nearly as full of character as the MINI, drive substantially better than their predecessors while also offering similar premium features once MINI exclusives in the compact field. Many compact cars today meet or exceed MINIs fuel economy figures and MINI USA seems to be ambivalent to staying ahead of the eight-ball and specing features such as auto stop/start which is a standard feature on MINIs in other markets. Or you can walk into a BMW or Audi dealership and for not much more coin, get a luxury sports car which looks like a bargain compared to a MINI.</p>
<p>One frustration with MINI (and recently BMW) is their stagnant engineering, particularly in powertrains. For seven years, BMW’s Turbo I6 has made 300hp or a small boast to around 330hp. Since 2002, VW has gone from a 1.8l I4 Turbo making 180 or 225 hp to a 2.0l I4 Turbo with tunes of 200hp, 208hp, 217hp, 256hp, and announced today 296hp. Are MINIs about power? No, but as emotional as my first MINI purchase was, one feeling I loved was that of being ahead of the curve and I don’t get that same emotional response about the latest MINIs. As much as I do like the “Not-Normal”ness of the Coupe, Roadster and Paceman, I would have rather have preferred those engineering dollars keeping the core brand on the cutting edge (need I mention the hideous BMW 5GT or the unnecessary X6). Instead it feels as if savvy-consumers are being enticed by a host of new and well-engineered cars across many varying market segments that have dulled the MINI exceptionalness. The marketing comparing seems geared to people who already love the brand or the product and I’m wondering if saving the pennies for the F56 launch wouldn’t be money better spent.</p>
<p>I owned a 2003 R53 and often considered but never pursued another MINI as the value just didn’t keep pace with other offerings. Suddenly they were retailing well into the $30s and even $40s and the competition is fierce at those price points. My wife drives (at my suggestion) a GTI that I love and that frankly is a lot more refined than my S was. I miss the handling but not the hassles.</p>
<p>I traded my R53 on an Abarth.</p>
<p>Both unique cars. Similar performance between the S and the Abarth. About 4500 less for a model similarly speced when I was shopping. The money I saved allowed me to upgrade quite a bit on the Abarth. I prefer the styling of the Abarth, but of course that’s all subjective. I really just didn’t see the value of the extra money for the MINI.</p>
<p>It also sounds a thousand times better than my MINI ever could.</p>
<p>Fiat and VW are probably the most often cross-shopped brands for MINI.</p>
<ul>
<li>Matt</li>
</ul>
<p>My wife wanted either a Mini, MINI, or Vespa scooter. I went for the safest option with no regrets. At the time (2005) I would have cross shopped the GTI, Tiburon, MazdaSpeed 3, Miata, Wrangler, and used 3 series coupe.</p>
<p>When shopping for a new vehicle I really wanted a compact SUV. As I shopped around the Countyman caught my eye and I never looked back. Mini’s competition is all over the place. I feel I could have gotten more options cheaper with a Nissan Juke. They didn’t have a manual with AWD so I was a no go. What makes Mini great is all the custimized options but once you start adding you realize your in a $40,000 car. I get that Mini is a small segment premium brand, but 32-45 thousand for a Mini is just too much. Maybe thats BMW’s whole strategy, to get you to upgrade from a Mini to BMW. On the flip side maybe thats why they are expanding the mini lineup so much because people aren’t upgrading to BMW.</p>
<p>Still misspelled, dickhead.</p>
<p>When I bought my 2011 Clubman S, there was no cross-shopping whatsoever. I shopped a couple of different MINI dealers, but the goal from the get-go was a new MINI. I think a cogent argument can be made for cross-shopping the GTI, but I honestly don’t personally believe that there’s anything else in the U.S. market that seriously comes close to being head-to-head with a MINI. There are other similar-size cars on the market (Fiat, Spark, etc), but they’re not in the same price range. Most folks looking at Fiats & Sparks won’t be able to afford a new MINI, while those of us who can afford a new MINI are, for the most part, not likely to be looking at Sparks, Versas, or Fiats. This is not intended as a slam against these other cars; it’s simply an observation that MINI is not aimed at the same market segment.</p>
<p>I came from a VW Passat down to a 2008 Cooper. It was an emotional buy, pure and simple but I was looking to downsize. I would though, like to challenge your thinking though on a couple points. First, I think most people would say that the first car that pioneered the small car market in America was VW with their Rabbit back in the early 80’s. They caught on because VW developed their American dealership market quickly. Every mid-sized town I lived in during the 80’s had a VW, Toyota, Honda, and the Big Three. This segways into point two: MINI still clings to the “big city” markets with the placement of their dealerships. Here in Columbus GA (3rd largest city in Georgia) we have a new Fiat dealer and their sales are off the chart. We have two MINI dealerships in Georgia and their both in North Georgia and Georgia is the largest state east of the Mississippi River. My second point is this, I believe MINI’s biggest short term competitor or threat is itself because its not making an effort to sell the brand outside of major markets like Atlanta. Reminds me of Sterling back in the 80’s. Remember them? Exactly.</p>
<p>Fountain City MINI’s
Columbus GA</p>
<p>So the Rabbit as opposed to the Beetle? The classic wasn’t exactly a big car.</p>
<p>Let’s clarify that: “Modern” small car market…Better? I mean if we’re talking all small cars, then we’d have to acknowledge all of the post-War Micro Cars of Europe like the BMW Izetta and such…right? Reminds me of the now defunct Bruce Weiner Micro Car Museum in Madison, GA. Wow those Europeans made some great post war cars out of spare bike parts</p>
<p>They were building scooters out of old airplane parts too! The original Vespa prototype was a couple of fighter plane tail wheels, some stamped steel and a starter engine. Not gonna lie, I’d drive a Messershmitt 3-wheeler if I had one.</p>
<p>I guess I’m also too young to think of the ’80s as “modern” times. ;-)</p>
<p>The ’80s were modern times . . . back in the pre-1990 time period. Since then, not so much. Pretty much any car or tech from that decade is . . . well, old.</p>
<p>That said, I do remember the Sterling, barely. How long until people ask the same question about Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Plymouth, or Mercury?</p>
<p>Speaking of building things out of surplus parts: Urban legend has it that the Slinky was originally made from surplus uncut piston rings. Can’t find any confirmation, but it’s a good story.</p>
<p>I don’t care if that slinky story is true, I WANT it to be true.</p>
<p>Well, I heard it on CarTalk, sooo . . . :-)</p>
<p>I agree completely with your points. A big problem for me was that in my state New Jersey, there was no “easy” way to get to the dealership. The closest one was 45-60 min away depending on traffic. There are at least 3 VW dealerships within 15 minutes of my house in any which direction. Why does MINI not care about localization of their product?? They are putting the money into commercials, I guess. Maybe they just feel like… when you get bitten by the “bug” (pun intended) you will go to them. Because I was there, when you know you want a MINI, you WANT A MINI NOW DAMMIT lol</p>
<p>Also funny you bring up fiat, on my way to work this morning I saw 4 brand new FIAT 500 c on a 18 wheeler transport truck, making their deliveries (???? what ever model that looks like the countryman) I had to do a double take. They look good and are fierce competition for the countryman… they’re 4 door and appear smaller but I could be wrong on that.</p>
<p>FYI – sorry off topic but was just informed about this:</p>
<p>Judge Will Approve Mini Cooper Transmission Class Action Settlement</p>
<p><a href="http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/4537-judge-will-approve-mini-cooper-transmission-class-action-settlement#" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/4537-judge-will-approve-mini-cooper-transmission-class-action-settlement#</a></p>
<p>The MINI is cross-shopped with everything for a very wide range of reasons. Some like the handling, so they look at other good handling cars. Some like the style, so they look at style-focused cars etc. The MINI has a little bit of everything. When I bought my 2004 MINI, I thought about getting a VW Jetta. However, my friends had a few and had many, many problems. And the car wasn’t worth the reliability risk. Buying my Cooper I knew what the problems had been for 2002-03 and what was done to correct them. And the entire car- driving, style, how it made one push it harder every time you drove it- made any reliability concern obsolete. Today, it’s going strong and has had only a few little things go that weren’t normal maintenance items.</p>
<p>Looking for a bigger car for the family, the Countryman wasn’t out yet and my wife didn’t like the Clubman, so a used E90 325i was purchased. The family grew and I drove the Countryman multiple times but it was a little to un-MINI for the price premium. The new F30 was fine but the handling was poor so I ordered an E91 which is outstanding.</p>
<p>Now, I find myself in the need for a commuter car in the next year. My list includes a 2011 CPO 335d w/sport package, a 2014 Mazda 3, a Mazda 6, the updated Golf, an end-of production R55, or a Grand Cherokee (only because they are sooo cool and actually drive pretty well). I haven’t dismissed the F56 but based on BMW’s recent redesign history, I’m concerned about how much steering feel and handling prowess will be lost. I’ll drive it and see. But it will need a year of hiccups to be sorted….</p>
<p>So, there’s no real competitor as it varies from person to person.</p>
<p>Way too many cars get hyped up as a Mini competitor just because they are small cars. Mini’s true competition is the Audi A1 and Citroen DS3 two cars that where built to compete with the Mini with the same design brief: Small, Stylish and Premium. Unfortunately they are not sold in the US so nobody mentions them.</p>
<p>Funny to see this today … saw a Chevy Spark for the 1st time this am … laughable (just like the Smart car to me) that anyone would state it’s a MINI contender. No way! Entirely different class of vehicle. The only car(s) I’d consider ‘contenders’ for MINI are the Mazda hatchback (don’t know the model, as I don’t follow them like that) and MAYBE the Fiat (mainly for the cuteness factor). I didn’t consider any other than a MINI when I got Scoopie. I shopped for her online after building it on the MINIUSA site, and found her at a local dealership. Walked in, picked the one I saw, test drove it, signed the papers, and drove her home. :)</p>
<p>Honda Fit. Good price and size. Much nicer inside than MINIs do (and I say that as a two MINI household).</p>
<p>Much nicer inside than a MINI? You have to be kidding… I’ve owned and driven both and although the FIT is great at practicality and reliability, its interior isn’t better than a MINI by any measure.</p>
<p>Well as someone who lived and swore by his 2006 R53, I just picked up a GTI with DSG for the LESS than the price I paid back in 06 for my fairly base + stock S… and to say it is much more well equipped would be the understatement of the year.</p>
<p>VW is MINI’s problem.</p>
<p>VW has had its share of quality control issues, does that concern you? (And yes, I ask that knowing full well that MINI has had its issues as well, so everybody calm down.)</p>
<p>Well I can say the same about the MINI if you want to use that argument.. My supercharger went at 60k right out of warranty, almost like it was meant to happen. I had to pay for it out of pocket, even though mini did cut me some slack under “good will” (yeah right. they also said my front window would need to be replaced at a good will cost of 800$). Timing chain went at 105k, that was it for me, didnt feel safe driving the car anymore. They had to drop the pan to make sure no metal bits got anywhere they shouldn’t… another $2k repair. I bought the car under premise that it was a “BMW,” you know? As I’m sure a lot do. So I went into that car confident too… All in all my cooper s stickered at 24.5 and at the end of the day cost me upwards of 30k+. I could have literally bought a BMW.</p>
<p>I did my research on the new car. I know VW’s are the laughing stock when it comes to dashboards lighting up like christmas trees but the particular model I bought is a 2013 model… 2010s were prone to minor issues such as coolant leaks and water pumps failing but that was fixed under warranty for a lot of owners. I believe that problem was fixed in the coming years, and beyond that I’ve read the MK6 generation are very reliable cars. In fact, opposite to mini, the DSG are more reliable cars vs the manual.</p>
<p>There is nothing that drives like an R53 and it will be remembered as one of the most enjoyable experiences I’ve had driving, and I still visit this website out of habit and love, but you don’t know what you’re missing until you sit behind the wheel of another car that just works how it’s supposed to, looks damn good, and is fun to drive to boot. There are tradeoffs with the VW but I happily took them. By the way I was stock with the MINI and plan on keeping that tradition going, so i didnt beat the car up or miss any service intervals. The car just freakin broke on me. It was really discouraging owning a car you were so proud of and loved to boast about but I wish I listened to my girlfriends dad at the time telling me to go VW instead. Here I am 7 years later and I did and it feels right.</p>
<p>Regardless, a brand spanking new warranty is also very attractive when buying a new car so I am worry free for a few years. Feels good.</p>
<p>That’s a great perspective. Thanks for sharing it. At this point, it seems so strange that any modern car shouldn’t have a really high baseline of reliability. Yet it seems like everybody is a mixed bag. Even Toyota and Honda have issues these days. I’ve got an ’06 R53 myself and am at nearly 100,000 miles with no significant issues. Little things here and there, but nothing too bad.</p>
<p>I bought my 2004 R50 because the other car I was looking at (Chrysler Brand) had to many confirmed issues. I looked at VW, Honda, Toyota and Ford (Focus). I just liked how the Mini looked, felt and drove. Up until last year, I’ve only had a few issue. Things started to go down hill then. Power steering pump, fuel injectors, gaskets, front control arm bushings and now Electronic Transmission module for CVT. I will say looking at the NHTSA site, all cars have issues and problems. My issue with Mini is that they call themselves premium, yet things that should fail before their time do. I only have 59,250 miles on the car. Also as ASDF states, the price of the Mini has increased quite a bit. i paid out the door $22,000 and that include the extended maintenance package. This was at the time when Mini Dealers added on $1,500 to $2,500 in dealer markup too.</p>
<p>Configured now, it’s $26,000 and change. I’m not getting much more than before (actually less options as in body paint color choices). Yeah bluetooth and cruise control/radio control are now standard, but are they really? Mini just raised the base price – so not really getting more for the $$. Mini has also eliminated many options.</p>
<p>Would I consider another Mini? Maybe. I just don’t care for the look and changes either in 2nd Gen or from the pictures i saw the 3rd Gen. I know change happens but I feel they’ve made it too much into a vanilla car. Toggle switches moved or eliminated, Center Speedo gone, plumper/bigger, plus more. If I’m paying, I’ve got to enjoy it all around. $25,000 plus isn’t chump change.</p>
<p>Are the other small Compact and sub-compact cars a challenge to Mini? Yes and no. Remember there are two different groups of Mini buyers. 1. Enthusiast 2. Everyone else who is looking for a small car that gets good gas mileage and is reliable. (plus those that are looking for cuteness).</p>
<p>Opps – this part “things that should fail before” was suppose to read “shouldn’t fail before their time”. Darn fingers. lol.</p>
<p>Waiting to see new MINI, hope it looks more like the concept and less like the yellow spy shot which is awful. Also hope they don’t change the ease of entry like they did with the Roadster which I sorta wanted until I tried to get into it. I think the Focus ST is a good rival but it’s also hard to get into if you’re 6′ 4″ and have a stiff back and I don’t think Ford dealers understand cars.</p>
<p>If we were to look for a replacement today I’m unsure of what we would cross shop it with… As for why we bought our 2009 R56, we were looking to replace our ’95 Civic EX with 198K miles on it. I fully expected to get another Civic but my wife wanted to look at the MINIs. After one test drive of the Cooper S we bought one. Two years later we traded it in for a Clubman. We have longterm plans of adding an R59 and an R53 to our garage…</p>
<p>If I were in the market right now, I would look at the GTI, or the Toyobaru FR-S/BRZ. I don’t think I would look at much else. I want a car that is fun to drive. Not keen on the FIAT…well…maybe the Abarth…but…on second thought…no. I also go back and forth like this on the Focus ST…but ultimately I don’t think I could live with the styling for long (which may sound odd, since I love the Toyobaru).</p>
<p>The longer I own my super basic R56 Cooper, with just a few styling mods, the more I appreciate it. The key to my enjoyment of my car has been the tires. I made a bad choice in tires once, and it altered my experience dramatically. If I got the BRZ/FR-S, I don’t think I would mod it one bit. It would be interesting to get back into a RWD car. Not enough power, you say? Well, I’m one of those guys who loves driving “slow” cars fast, and I have many fun, twisty mountain roads in my area. So, for me, it boils down to the driving experience. Will I have fun pushing my “slow” car to its limits? Power addicts can go fast in a straight line all day long. You’ll find me in the twisties, in second or third gear.</p>
<p>The additional appeal of the MINI for me is that it has been pretty easy to install a few styling mods which make the car uniquely mine. I wouldn’t have that with many other cars…or rather, I don’t think I would do anything on any other car. The MINI lends itself to personalization in a way that few other cars can pull off without looking terribly cheesy. You half expect to see a MINI with unique graphics, scuttles, badges, lights, rims, etc. I look forward to seeing a unique MINI. When I see a modded Civic, it just looks cheap to me (sorry). The FIAT could probably pull this off, but I haven’t seen it yet.</p>
<p>I just don’t see this combo in many other offerings. Maybe a Jeep? A totally different kind of car, a different kind of “fun” driving experience. Easy to mod to make it uniquely yours. And I think Jeep owners may still wave at each other…</p>
<p>I also have to say that the Subaru WRX Concept has me intrigued…</p>
<p>looks like the civic coupe v6 from the front, actually more like a kia forte now that i look a bit longer… i prefer the back of the honda though, every time i see one i think it’s a porsche cayman</p>
<p>Ford Fiesta ST just now coming out. Recarros, nav out the door for around 25,000.</p>
<p>but it’s a Ford :/ Sure, it has the numbers (HP, Torque) but hardly ANY attraction. Fiesta?? But 252 HP is not bad… Doubtful a person considering a Ford looks at MINI as an otion. They are probably still living in the world of “I only buy American cars”, and therefore not someone MINI markets to at all.</p>
<p>There’s the horsepower you have and the horsepower you can use. Not always the same thing. I’m guessing future JCW MINIs will be AWD and make substantially more power than today. That’s just a guess on my part, however.</p>
<p>Actually, I find the Focus and Fiesta STs pretty appealing, but I’m a sucker for not seeing my car’s doppelganger every day.</p>
<p>Of course, that’s also a reason that the MINI hatch has become less appealing to me over time. There are six of them (both R50/3 and R56) on my street. But no other Roadsters!</p>
<p>unfortunately manual only</p>
<p>MINI gave me a fun car (i had never said that about any vehicle…) that I could make my own. And, if I wanted, tune it for more performance and fun. For just the Cooper/Cooper S/JCW Cooper (Countryman, Paceman, etc. are not really MINIs to me…) I think MINI’s competition is widespread: VW Beetle (fun, iconic), VW Golf (hot-hatch), BRZ/FRS (fast, fun, sporty), Fiat500 (gets the looks, cute), Big 3’s small cars. Surely there are more to add. MINI loses on price, but I also think MINI’s buyer is not overly cost-concerned. Asking MINI to lower prices cheapens the brand, as it is known as a sort-of-luxury vehicle. Sort of 🙂 My problem with MINI is its crazy model adds (Roadster, Paceman, etc). The more models across vehicle types stretches them too thin with marketing and production costs, and adds competition they are ill-prepared to battle. This causes the uninformed to discount MINI as a choice because “…it’s not as efficient as, or as low-cost as, or not as big as, etc.”. I understand MINI getting into SUV-Land with the Countryman, but that’s a tough market when lots of people want an SUV but are cost-conscious. MINI is not really for people dollar-shopping a vehicle. MINI needs to stay with the Not Normal campaign, but they also need to tell people what MINI can do/what is has (maybe highlight the tuner stuff, hard as that is in me=ainstream advertising). Right now their ads just speak to MINI owners. But as a niche-brand (numbers don’t lie), maybe the exclusive-ish crowd is OK with that idea.</p>
<p>The key to making the inside of your MINI almost as nice as its price tag would suggest is to get a leather dash and avoid the plastic colored inserts, but yeah, you can get a faster, nicer car for less money. At this point, a big part of the MINI cache is the intangible brand-identity and lifestyle stuff. People are willing to pay more because the brand appeals to some version of how they see themselves, or would like to be seen by others.</p>
<p>Exactly. MINI ownders aren’t doing dollar-for-value or dollar-per-horsepower comps with other vehicles. Kinda like people buying a Prius. You can get more/better for less, but the Prius makes a statement. The statement the owner wants to make. MINI is the same. How many people who don’t buy MINIs are as excited about their car as a MINI owner is??</p>
<p>For a lot of people, buying a car will never be a fully rational decision. I like those kinds of people. I am that kind of people. A great car or a great bike is a machine you have a relationship with. In the end, it doesn’t matter what that costs. Money is easier to come by than time and passion.</p>
<p>“Money is easier to come by than time and passion.” Really? Go tell that to the people who lost their jobs and still can’t find a job or had to take a significant cut in pay. I sorry I have to say this, but the “I don’t care what it costs” attitude on this site has been around since the site first started and has always rubbed me the wrong way. There are a lot of people working multiple jobs just trying to make ends meat and money is not easier to come by vs time or passion for them (legally at least).</p>
<p>Wow. That’s not at all what I meant and you know it. It absolutely matters what things cost, but cost isn’t the ONLY thing that matters in a buying decision.
As for folks struggling to make ends meet, I have absolutely been there, and the worst part is the way just getting by sucks up all your time and energy. We’re not talking about people in that situation, and you know it. We’re talking about people in the market for a NEW car. Obviously that’s not everybody and it’s no slight whatsoever on people who aren’t in that position.
Yet for people who are car shopping, there are some things that, for some, are worth paying extra for. Not because they maximize “value” but because they maximize the fun of ownership. You know that’s what I meant and so did everybody else.</p>
<p>Dude. All he’s saying is that, if you’re gonna buy something, buy something you like. That’s good advice at ANY price point.</p>
<p>2015 Golf R. 296-Hp, AWD, DSG. Although, I’ve never cared for the exterior looks of the Golf/GTI.</p>
<p>Here in the UK</p>
<p>The competition for the MINI are the following:</p>
<p>Audi A1
Citroen DS3
Fiat 500
Renault Clio
VW Golf/Polo</p>
<p>To me: MINI’s competition and thier market niche is simply small cars that dont feel cheap. Just because I dont need a big car doesn’t mean that I dont want soft touch, leather, tech, nav, led lighting and refined performance. I would never even consider most small cars. no more A3 hatch leaves the golf and maybe the buick encore which does not handle anything like the golf or MINI.
When I bought in 2003 I cross shopped WRX, Celica GT and Miata.
Today. I am cross shopping ….. jetta sportwagen, GLI, GTD ….If mazda would bring the 6 diesel wagon I would buy it imediately!…..But no worries, only vw wants to sell me a car.</p>
<p>I love my 2008 MCS. I had the dread “death rattle”. Had it serviced under warranty. Others I know of not as fortunate. Other well known issues too like the HPFP, wherethe success of having it serviced under warranty is at the whim of the dealer. If MINI wants to be considered a premium brand they need to offer premium quality and premium service.</p>
<p>You all have nice long posts, which I will resume:
Mini is an emotion.
The only competition is from other small cars that generate a true wow. All the other small cars are merely functionality or budget cases.</p>
<p>There are a lot of problems with this peice… For example, is the Spark a DIRECT Mini competitor, no, but indirectly yes. There are Mini owners who want efficiency and low cost as high priorities, and the style and heritage aren’t big players. So they see the price difference and get something non-Mini. You can look at each and every area where Mini used to dominate, and if they still dominate, they do so by less of a margin. The Toybaru twins aren’t direct competitors, but I see lots up in the hills where I live, and I’d guess that some of the buyers who love the chassis of the new car would have bought Minis had the Toybarus not been available. Handling, efficiency, interior space, cost vs value, image etc…. All the competition is nipping at Mini’s heels, just not in a car that fits the mix of what Mini offers.</p>
<p>Also, having a discussion about this here is sure to get a very biased response. Out in the non-brand-alligned world, things play differently. Yes the Fiat is upright and tippy, but it’s a hoot to drive and it costs less. The Focus ST give up some polish, but it’s an automotive hooligan of the first magnitude! The Spark EV has 400 ft-lbs of torque and is close to as quick as an MCS! Just one slow shift and the Spark EV takes the drag race! The Toybaru twins have an exquisite chassis, the penultimate expression of a momentum car, but with the advantage (over FWD) that you can use it’s limited power to play with oversteer (think pitching it out during a turn.)</p>
<p>So, we all will be at a loss to find the direct Mini competition, but let’s be real. The distance between what the competition is offering and Mini is shriking every day. And Mini has to do something. You can’t count the number of people who are vaguely aware of MINI, yet know nothing of the product offerings or range of vehicle types one can get. Seems to me Mini has a bigger problem: It doesn’t matter what your products are if the buying public doesn’t know you offer them. Why would anyone come down to look at the difference between the Paceman, the Countryman, the Clubman and the standard hardtop (not to mention the bastard step children the Coupe and Roadster), when they don’t even know the cars exist?</p>
<p>The “Not Normal” campaign is a perfect example. They want to say that Mini buyers are confident and stand out from the crowd. But not normal also can mean touched in the head, or have other negative connotations. Bad sales pitch…. And what the ef does “Not Normal” do to inform the buyer about what cars are offered?</p>
<p>How about a story on “What is the general public so clueless about the offerings from MINI and what does that mean for the like time health of the brand?”</p>
<p>btw, our latest car is a FIAT 500e. It is a total blast to drive! We still have my 02 MCS, and the wife’s 08 Clubman. But those who diss FIATs aren’t really being fair to the brand. They do some really good things at really good prices and lots and lots of buyers of the cars are happy. (I gotta say the interior design of the FIATs is decades ahead of the MINIs, other than the stupid TomTom mount on the dash….)</p>
<p>Another thought on Not Normal: How about this instead? Mini for every stage in life: Start with the 16 year old getting a base Cooper…. First job, a MCS JCW, throw in some track or AutoX footage…. The first baby brings in the Clubman. The second baby the Countryman, and a Roadster for play…. After the kids leave home, a Paceman S or a Coupe. This would show the whole brand offering, show that there are products that meet more needs than just “Quirky and Small” and actually inform the buyer of something other than the ad agency is “edgy”. One can show how the brand serves everyone, instead of just the insipid young urban hipster image that just grates me the wrong way and turns off anyone over 30 (who can actually afford the cars!) Even tie into different stages so the young can identify with the first car or first job, the family people can identify with the caring parents who value safety, efficiency AND fun, to the older people who can choose whatever they want for fun and pleasure and who chose to buy MINIs! (they can even have nice houses or whatever in the background).</p>
<p>Young to old…
Rich to poor…
Single to family… A MINI For every need….</p>
<p>Plays a lot better than “Not Normal”</p>
<p>You say “There are a lot of problems with this piece” then go on to make nearly point-for-point a lot of the same arguments I do. Your conclusion (that MINI has a major brand and benefit awareness problem) is even the same as my conclusion in the article. So let’s agree to agree, shall we? ;-)</p>
<p>I had an ’09 JCW for 4 years. I liked the car and thought it was fun, however the dealership moved (Atlanta) and it was a chore to get an oil change/ service. The performance was great and I started looking(dreaming) of other cars like the 1Series M and M3. Then something caught my eye, the Boss 302 with all the comparisons to the M3 but less expensive.</p>
<p>The Boss was still out of my price range but a nice 5.0 was the same as a JCW. I also was turned off by the cost of the GP.</p>
<p>I went with the Mustang and I love it.</p>
<p>I’ve had my MCS convertible for about 3 weeks now and I’m pretty sure the grin on my face I get from driving it every day is going to take a long time to fade.
I was coming out of a 04 Focus 4door that served me well as a commuter car. The number one criteria I had for choosing this next car was that it had to be fun to drive.
In an exhaustive 3 month search I test drove Mazda3, Mazdaspeed3, Mazda CX-5 (all three are great, the Mazdaspeed3 almost won), Suburu WRX, Ford Focus ST, Ford Mustang Convertible, VW GTI and R, Volvo S60 and C70, and even briefly considered a Jeep Wrangler.
Of all of those cars, the MINI and the Mazdaspeed 3 were the most fun to drive, and the convertible option on the MINI sealed it. While the MINI S doesn’t have anywhere near the same power as the Mazdaspeed3, it’s still more fun to drive with what I feel is more aggressive cornering and less body roll.
While pricing was important to me, the MINI fit my budget and I don’t think there really are any other 4 seater convertibles on the market that are nearly as fun to drive at this price point. The New Beetle is close, but it’s just far too feminine looking for my tastes.
I personally don’t have a big need for my car to be an individual, so the option sets weren’t as important to me as they seem to be to many MINI drivers. That being said, I did get some dealer installed black bonnet stripes on my BRG.
Happy Motoring to you all, I know I will!</p>
<p>The beetle is too feminine, but you bought a MINI. I hope you don’t blow steam out of your ears when someone calls your brand new car “Cute.” I sure did… that’s why I bought a triple black r53 lol tried to make it as mean as possible but the comments were inevitable</p>
<p>Shopped, Hyundai GT, VW, Nissan, Honda, Prius didn’t even test drive them. Fiat is no comparison on any level IMO, except small. Absolutely love my Base Mini, manual tran. I hope this is my last gas powered car, and will give them 5 years or so to develop the MINIe, but for now I am sure enjoying the ride.</p>