As discussed in the [last episode](http://traffic.libsyn.com/whiteroofradio/woof547.mp3) of White Roof Radio, Todd spent most of last week driving a 2015 4-door Golf GTI. His impression was rather positive, so positive in fact, that we dedicated almost half of the show talking about his experience and how it compares to the F56. While Gabe has also praised the GTI in the past, this weekend was our turn to test-drive Volkswagen’s Hot Hatch.
We can all agree that the 1976 Golf GTI MkI created the Hot Hatch segment. Subsequent versions of the GTI refined the model over the years, with more or less success. The GTI MkVII, especially equipped with the Performance Package, has received good reviews from the press, and most recently from someone on our team. And to get a better sense of Todd’s positive feedback, we decided to test-drive the car ourselves last weekend. However, upon arriving at the dealer, we noticed a Golf R sitting on the lot so we couldn’t pass the opportunity to drive that instead.
Here are our initial takeaways, but bear in mind that a dealer test-drive is restricted in time and driving style:
– At a $39,090, the Golf R comes fully loaded with 292-hp, a 2.0-liter four-cylinder turbo engine, and all-wheel drive. An equally equipped F56 JCW comes at $40,700
– It’s really fast but well balanced and it sounds amazing, though some of that sound is probably synthesized like in the MINI
– It’s bigger than the F56 but we couldn’t feel the difference during our short drive
– We are all manual transmission fanboys, but Volkswagen’s DSG on the R is simply perfect
– The interior cabin is of excellent quality and on par with the F56, but not as exciting (or as distracting depending on how you look at it)
– The Nav system is slow and does not look as good as MINI’s, but buyers will be able to option Apple CarPlay and Android Auto starting this summer. That’s a big plus in our book
– It’s a Golf, which means it almost looks like any other Golf on the road and it’s kind of sad
– It’s not an Audi, which means it’s not a cheap VW – it’s actually a high-end VW – and that’s a very good thing (sorry Audi drivers)
– Did we say how perfect the DSG was?
All in all, we came away very impressed with this car. It says a lot coming from a BMW/MINI enthusiast and it’s no wonder that [Chris Harris](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOZNp6GOxI) and [Motor Trend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXmd3QF-zYU) among others (i.e. Clarkson was supposed to test it on the [last episode](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_episodes#Series_22_.282014.E2.80.9315.29) of Top Gear) gave the Golf R a thumbs up.
As some of you may know, we will be on the on the hunt for a new car in the coming months. Although the F56 JCW is one of our top choices, the Golf R represents a viable alternative that we will strongly consider before signing a check. How about other prospective JCW buyers? What cars are you cross-shopping the JCW against?
One more thing. We wish we have had more time behind the wheel of the 2015 Golf R and we’re wondering if an in-depth review would be of interest to any of you. Let us know by voting below.
<p>MINI has let the top bracket of the hot hatch segment slip away from them over the last 9 years when they didn’t really have to. The parts and the formula are there, what’s missing is the will to put them together for a reasonable price.</p>
<p>So I believe I’m in a unique position to comment on this article. I ordered one of the last 2015 JCW Coupes, and I also just bought the ’15 Golf R for my Daily Driver. I also did some test driving of the F56 Cooper S before settling on the R58 JCW.</p>
<p>Now I’m going to try and be coherent here, but it may get ramble-y so I apologize in advance for that. I know everyone here understands how good MINIs are and likely are enthusiasts. I’m going to break my thoughts into MK7R v. R58, and MK7R v. F56.</p>
<p>MK7R v. R58 JCW</p>
<p>The MK7R is very quiet on the road. The insulation is just great. If I jump into the R58 after a drive in my Golf R there is a huge difference.</p>
<p>The MK7R’s fender stereo just beats the R58 HK hands down. No contest in sound quality. The R58 connected interface is much better, however it can be slow like the R’s</p>
<p><em>The R is Very</em> quick. You can just mash the accelerator and squirt out of any corner. The R58 you need to plan your moves carefully otherwise you’re spinning the inside wheel and going nowhere.</p>
<p>The R has more body roll. To me it’s not as surgical in corners as the R58 is. (I have the JCW suspension fitted, and got rid of the runflats) I can definitely tell the R has more heft and is softer. Is it faster than the MINI? well on the tightest road near where I live no it’s not.</p>
<p>The R58 is an absolute peach on the track. I had a blast at laguna seca recently. (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QL3EQkdKAk" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QL3EQkdKAk</a></p>
<p>The R58 feels more raw, and more like a traditional sports car. No fake noise (that I know of) great four cylinder exhaust note. Feels faster than the R, not sure why. Just maybe because it’s more connected feeling?</p>
<p>The refinement of the R makes it feel more insulated and less involving.</p>
<p>The R58 is VERY BOUNCY. As a DD it can get old after a while. The R is much better damped, and just a joy to drive in traffic.</p>
<p>I disagree with the DSG review. I’ve owned an E90 M3 with DCT. That car responded if you thought about shifting. The R on the other hand in M mode sometimes has a second-ish lag between shift input, and actually executing the shift. It also shifts the car at redline for you when you’re in M mode. The M3 did not. The DSG is however buttery smooth in traffic (D Mode) and most of the time you’ll be in D anyway. The transmission is better than any slushbox known to man, but it could be better with a slight software modification. I still think the computer thinks too much before executing.</p>
<p>Quality? It’s a push here. I’ve had 3 problems with my R already. Two fixed, and one had the part replaced but still not fixed. The R58 has horrible dash rattles, the iphone y cable doesn’t work well (been through two of those), and my rear bumper has a paint defect from the factory which I still need to take in to get fixed. I’m worried they won’t fix that, but luckily I have pics of the car before I took delivery in which you can see the defect so I hope they’ll warranty that. With either car you’ll be making unexpected visits to the dealer.</p>
<p>R vs my memory of test driving the F56 S
The R is way better
The F56 felt sloppy (All season tires, and stock suspension)
The F56 interior is nicer
The F56 styling is better
* Likely the JCW will be more fun than the R, but the R still wins for all-around value for your dollar.</p>
<p>FWIW I also considered the ’15 STI. I found it married the mini’s fun/exciting rawness with a large usable space. I ultimately didn’t get the STI because I like being lazy in traffic, and I hate the rear wing. Also because:sedan. If subaru made the ’15 STI in hatch form they likely would have had my money.</p>
<p>The ’15 R I think is the best performance bargain around at that price point. I know people knock it for being a “40k VW Golf” but I assure you if you drive the R, and an S3 you’ll be wondering why you’d ever pay an extra 5-10 grand for a similarly optioned S3. It comes down to interior fit+finish, badge, and exterior styling at that point. The R has usable space as well.</p>
<p>I’d love to be a guest on whiteroof radio if you need one :-)</p>
<p>Such a shame you tested the F56 with stock suspension and all season tyres !
The F56 Sport suspension is way better than the R56 sport suspension IMHO :)</p>
<p>Tell my local dealer that. They only order cars with the soft or adjustable suspension and all season tires. To test an F56 Cooper S with sport suspension, manual transmission, and summer tires I would have to put down a deposit and order a car. Other local dealers it was the same story.</p>
<p>I think the biggest problem with VW is the service . they have to be the worst when it comes to taking care of customers (I have owned 3 VW’s ) My wife had a 20th anniversary GTI and the dealership could not explain how or why they put 140 miles on her car (this is one of many stories ). I now own two Audi’s and even though it’s the same company it’s night and day difference on the service side . I have had service at 4 VW dealers and they are all the same they treat you like they are doing you a favor in fixing the car they sold you. If I spend 40k on a car I should be able to drop off my car and get a loaner for a oil change .
Mini I a totally difference experience , they treat you like a customer and will gladly schedule oil changes and give loaners .
So although the R seems like a winner, the service is the killer and if you willing to take that risk on a first year car with poor service you are much braver than I am .</p>
<p>This is the reason why that if I were to switch/try out VW (never owned a VW, always been partial to MINI/BMW), I don’t know if I can leave the great service MINI has provided. This gives me an idea on what VW service is like. Thanks for the input.</p>
<p>I have heard this before, but in my particular area I would say just the opposite. I have had over the last decade, great service from both our local VW dealer locations and have had marginal service from the MINI dealership. I still use the dealers, but don’t have high expectations when taking the MINI in. Dealer service depends a lot on the size of the customer base, personality of the service representative, competency of the service technician and quality of the parts.</p>
<p>I think the main problem is a fundamental problem with VW service . When I took my Mini in for a oil change I got a loaner and could set an appointment for a oil change , regardless of if they were rude or not this was the policy. VW wants you to not schedule and just walk in a for an oil change and wait , nor will they let you drop off a car and get a loaner ,I think this is crazy. The service level you receive when getting your oil changed speaks volumes .</p>
<p>IN the last five years of owning MINI’s, I have never once had a problem. Oh, I take that back, when we were going on vacation I wanted to get my oil changed, but they were booked. I don’t call that a problem, as MINI still paid for that outside oil change.</p>
<p>I’ve gotten loaner cars, mostly they have take my MINI and returned it at work. I can’t ask for more than that. The VW dealer here is the take it to them and wait too. There’s even been times when one of my VW GTI friends, took it for his oil change, waited two hours, then was told that the shop was closing and that he’d have to come back tomorrow. He went elsewhere and paid for his oil change. Just another case of VW and Lithia doing their own thing.</p>
<p>I have not driven the new Golf R, but if it is even a slight improvement over the previous one then it is one hell of a car.</p>
<p>With that said, I have no interest in it. The DSG is nice, but it is still an automatic and I have always preferred manual cars. In fact, I have never owned an automatic until last year when I bought a winter car, 2002 Pathfinder. VW’s just feel a lot heavier and don’t feel exciting to me. The looks of all of the new VW’s has completely lost my interest, and going to VW means not being part of the Mini community which I have grown to love so much. The different looks and quirkiness of the Mini (and its drivers) is what has me hooked and will for years to come.</p>
<p>I actually went over to my local Mini dealership last night with my wife as i heard they had the new JCW on the lot. I have had one on order (at least in queue) for a manual for over a month now, so I was excited to at least see the new one. They did allow me to test drive it and I can honestly say that it is incredible, and I now know I made the right decision. As much as I hate driving an automatic and had to do the test drive in one, the new car is incredibly quick and fun. They did not insist on going with me either, so I did get to really drive it.</p>
<p>As the saying goes, “Always respect thy enemy”, or in this case competitor – therefore, I have voted for a review. The Golf R has been on sale here in Europe for over a year, so we are well acquainted with its brilliance. Autocar voted it No.1 in its review of its favourite top 50 cars on sale in the UK, and concluded that the Golf R, “is a landmark in real-world performance car design”.</p>
<p>Even more exciting, however, is the Golf R400 which has been given the green light for regular production. The R400 will only be available with 3-doors and a manual gearbox, and will be powered by a 395-hp, 332lb ft beefed-up version of the Golf R’s 2.0-litre four-pot engine. It can hit 60mph from rest in 3.7secs, and reach a top speed of 174mph, all for an on-the-road estimated UK base price of £40K. Supercar performance at half the price. What is there not to love about that!</p>
<p>It’s so good to see VW get it’s athletic hatch reputation back.</p>
<p>I’ve mentioned my huge respect for the GTI on MF over the years. Somewhat like Mini (not MINI), the GTI has a legendary past. I bought into this legend and really enjoyed being a VW driver for a long time.</p>
<p>But VW went through a development period where the exterior design and the handling softened. The farfegnugen was gone, and that only highlighted my many awful dealership and service experiences. I was actually happy to leave the brand, something I couldn’t have imagined years before.</p>
<p>After a short stint with Audi, I bought my MINI on a whim. Boy, was I smitten.</p>
<p>I always wanted a true sub-compact with all the characteristics MINI promised. While larger than I really wanted (that’s what kept me from buying in 2002), MINI nailed the driving and ownership experience I was looking for, and the car was different/quirky enough (remember the Unofficial Owner’s Manual?) that these characteristics added up to more than the sum of their parts; MINI had captured that elusive magic.</p>
<p>Now that MINI’s hardtop shares nearly the same footprint* as the Golf/GTI/R, and MINI’s going through a similar stage of development (IMHO) that soured my experience with VW, I’m considering a switch again for my daily driver.</p>
<p>Specs:
<a href="http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf-r/2015/?tab-id=specs-tab" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf-r/2015/?tab-id=specs-tab</a>
<a href="http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper/2015/?tab-id=specs-tab&sub=hatchback" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper/2015/?tab-id=specs-tab&sub=hatchback</a></p>
<p>MINI’s UOM:
<a href="http://www.minipeople.lt/failai/db/4/unauthorized_owners_manual.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.minipeople.lt/failai/db/4/unauthorized_owners_manual.pdf</a></p>
<p>Hi Mathew – I’m intrigued with your statement that, “the MINI’s Hardtop shares nearly the same footprint as the Golf/GTI/R”, and you helpfully attach links with specifications to confirm this. The only problem is that the specifications actually confirm what we already know, that F56 is still firmly in the B segment – under 4 metres (Audi A1, F56, Fiesta, Polo) and the Golf is firmly in the C segment – over 4 metres (Audi A3/Focus/Golf). Using your own figures:</p>
<p>F56 – Length 12ft. 7.1in / Width 5ft. 8in / Wheelbase 8ft. 2.2in
Golf – Length 13ft. 11.9in /Width 5ft. 10.8in / Wheelbase 8ft. 7.5in</p>
<p>BMW has said that MINI’s core model (3-door Hatch/ 2-door Hardtop) must ALWAYS be under 4 metres in length.</p>
<p>Hi Nick,</p>
<p>You’re correct, the two cars are in a different size class, but that’s an arbitrary categorization from a consumer’s point of view. Further, I am always careful to frame my criticisms and comments as being subjective.</p>
<p>While the F56 is smaller than the Golf – and, yes, it’s under 4 meters – the R50/53 is <em>smaller</em> still. My perspective on the Hardtop model is firmly rooted in the latter comparison:</p>
<p>R50/53 – Length 11ft 9.9in / Width 5ft 5.4in / Height 4ft 6.5in</p>
<p>F56 – Length 12ft. 7.1in / Width 5ft. 8in / Wheelbase 8ft. 2.2in</p>
<p>Golf – Length 13ft. 11.9in /Width 5ft. 10.8in / Wheelbase 8ft. 7.5in</p>
<p>The sum of the Hardtop’s sequential growth is not trivial, and that’s what I meant by that statement you highlighted. The proportions of the F56 slots the Hardtop into a new category of cars I’ve created based on my personal preferences. A given car is either “small enough” or “too big”…for me.</p>
<p>As such, I no longer immediately assume my next vehicle will be a new MINI. Another way of putting it is to say that MINI now has a lot more competition for my transportation dollar. And, boy, does that Prologue Allroad look good. (I kid. Once down the allroad road was enough for me.)</p>
<p>Thanks Mathew – I understand what you are saying.</p>
<p>We all know by now why MINI has had to grow in size, but it is also worth remembering that R50/53 made no money for BMW, and most MINI fans are probably unaware just how close the BMW board came to ditching the MINI brand. MINI 2 was more profitable, but the real breakthrough came with the Countryman, the success of which even surprised BMW.</p>
<p>Crucially, MINI is a lifestyle product, and those who love and buy MINIs are not just buying a car, they are buying a lifestyle.</p>
<p>“We all know by now why MINI has had to grow in size slightly”</p>
<p>Do we? Do we understand why each and every model, present and future must scale up?</p>
<p>Are you familiar with Maslow’s law of the instrument? It goes like this, If all you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.</p>
<p>Is there a problem with BMW/MINI’s hammer? I don’t think that has been proven one way or the other yet. But if you noticed the traction Fiat’s making in this niche?</p>
<p>The 500, nearly identical in size to the R50/53 and half the car, sold 3,289 units in February 2015. That’s more than any single MINI model, and ridonkulously close to the unit sales for the entire MINI brand in the same month. This originally laughable non-competitor’s success might indicate MINI made an an error in judgement squarely in the sole niche we’re talking about: the Hardtop?</p>
<p>“MINI is a lifestyle product, and those who love and buy MINIs are not just buying a car, they are buying a lifestyle”</p>
<p>This exactly. Materially “small” is critical to the MINI lifestyle. But because the company has moved wholesale to larger MINIs, the lineup has become a Rorshach test. This will be further emphasized by the larger Countryman2 and the even larger still Clubman2.</p>
<p>To be clear, I don’t advocate for a return to expensive build techniques of the R50/53, although quirky features arguably have powerful marketing benefits).</p>
<p>I simply call for a material return to AI’s original thesis. Be it 1 in 5 MINI models or 1 in 15, BMW should <em>own</em> this space. It should not cede it, it should not dilute it, and it should not simply pay lip service to it [ahem, GH].</p>
<p>Yes, BMW has told us that they’re studying the business case for a city car. Darn skippy. Yes, I understand that MINI has found it a challenge interpreting consumer surveys. I also understand, somewhat, the ever-present concerns over the MINI division’s financial viability. And I understand that the financial markets are a cruel, and often contradictory mistress.</p>
<p>But it’s worth pointing out that BMW.de’s balance sheet boasts $12.01b in cash, and and we’re not talking about carving out a new brand here. We’re talking about stewarding a brand that brings 50 years of game-changing history to the table.</p>
<p>If really pressed, I suppose my issue is with BMW’s wavering message. BMW should, IMHO, hold up a brilliantly packaged city car as its beacon, It should never have become a vehicle it has to justify.</p>
<p>One model is the ask.</p>
<p>Now steady on Mathew, you are becoming far too excited. It’s not good for someone of your age – anything might happen! :-)</p>
<p>True, true, Nick =-)</p>
<p>I’ll blow off the rest of my steam during the lunch hour ride. Join me?</p>
<p>Matt I agree whole heartedly. Now get out there and lets get a 160K in before lunch!</p>
<p>“Now get out there and lets get a 160K in before lunch!”</p>
<p>Hi GoRixter, will 40k do for today? I’m on my way out now.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for me, I generally have to reserve rides over 50k for weekends and vacations…and it just so happens that our son is away this weekend (road bike camp), so I’ll have more free time than usual. Let’s ride!</p>
<p>Okay 40K will do for today, but that means 200 for tomorrow. I put in some on the weekend so I’m probably ahead of you for this week <a href="http://www.strava.com/athletes/rixter" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.strava.com/athletes/rixter</a></p>
<p>“I’m probably ahead of you for this week”</p>
<p>Not if you begin your week on a Sunday :-)</p>
<p>agreed about the MINI as a brand next.. i personally feel the problem w/the newer MINI brand is that.. they are catering to the bigger majority vs the hardcore minority since well sales of cars is what they are aiming at and when they do go outside the beige formula box for hot hatches (aka the R58/R59; pure driver cars) they get questioned why they built a pure drivers car over a functional hatchback etc…</p>
<p>i’m not sure a MINI will be my for sure next car / second car but my 2013 S Coupe def keeps MINI at the top of my list.. plus, the hot hatch sect got very crowded the last few years… :)</p>
<p>I’m looking at the BMW 228i with Sport and Track packages. Ok, throw in the Cold, Lighting, Tech and HK RADIO system. Comes out to about $41k. With the deals that BMW will give, it gets very close to the JCW price. I’ve looked at the GTI and the R, but while they are quick, but they just look like all the other Golf’s. Plus, I will not drive a your door sedan. My wife drives a RAV4, so that’s enough for doors in our home.</p>
<p>By the way, that 238i is very quick, I’d say very close to the R’s times, plus it’s rear wheel drive.</p>
<p>“At a $39,090, the Golf R comes fully loaded with 292-hp, a 2.0-liter four-cylinder turbo engine, and all-wheel drive. An equally equipped F56 JCW comes at $40,700”</p>
<p>That’s not much difference. So much for people saying the JCW is overpriced for a top-spec hot hatch.</p>
<p>Surely the most important point here is that, as good a car as the JCW is in its own right, with the best will in the world it is completely out of its depth in the company of the MK7 Golf R. It is worth remembering that the F56 is B segment and the Golf is C segment, but in the US the Golf is priced equivalent to B segment cars, and as such is a bargain.</p>
<p>Seems a bit premature to say that when the F56 JCW has yet to be released.</p>
<p>That’s a fair point. Perhaps we should bookmark our comments and reconvene after the JCW has been comprehensively tested around the world.</p>