The New MINI Clubman

Kyle Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Wow, looks very interesting. I actually like the suicide doors… but I still don’t see why its necessary to have more cars than what’s already avaliable.

Chris Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Again…Is this a MINI or is this a MAXI? I think it is a mistake to produce such awkwardly large and hideous cars hencefourth confusing consumers with the MINI branding.

That car is not a MINI, it is a MAXI!

You heard it here first folks!

Chris

mini vanilli Mar 16th, 2005 Link

UGLY!! minis are not supposed to be looong!

GSKChicago Mar 16th, 2005 Link

If it gives you tremendous reliability and of course, outstanding performance with unique and eye catching styling, then it is still a MINI. Period. MINI is NOT just a small car. It is SOOOO much more than a small car.

I say bring on the clubman; why should only those of us that don’t really require a functional backseat (for more than quick trips) have all the fun.

Vanwall Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Well it looks quite practical, and if the article is right, it has barn doors in the rear, like the originals. The classic Mini always had a wagon in the line-up, and I’m glad their adding one. Yeah!!

        BCNU,
     Rob in Dago

revwillie Mar 16th, 2005 Link

looks like a candidate for http://www.counterfeitsaturns.com

Milwaukee Liar Mar 16th, 2005 Link

It’s as ugly as the red MINI Limo. This is not a MINI - Thanks to Chris, It’s a MAXI. All of these variants will only make the brand be like every other brand with their variants ad nauseum. Will MINI next come out with a monster SUV?…Just to capture market share?

KEN Mar 16th, 2005 Link

A bit of Mini history.
With out the clubman it is possible none of us would be motoring today.

1970-1979 The Clubman, need we say more?
The 1970s is often seen as the dark era of the Mini, various attempts were made to kill it off, starting with the end of the Cooper in 1971 to the launch of the Metro. But still the Mini soldiered on, with just enough people buying it in order to keep it alive. The launch of the Mini Clubman in the late 60s gave the Mini a much modernized feel, and although the design is a case of love it or hate it, it added a bit of variety to a rather dull 70s Mini line up. The Clubman is differentiated by the hotdog grill with lights inside the “dog”.

MiniLifeCrisis Mar 16th, 2005 Link

This is what children look like when a MINI and a Saturn are parked in the same garage over night.

UGLY!!

Meg Mar 16th, 2005 Link

personally I am not a fan of “station wagon” type cars. But if someone needs more room then the current MINI has to offer but likes the looks of the car, then this will offer that.

HaHa Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Can you say, “here come the soccer moms!”

The Easter Bunny Mar 16th, 2005 Link

My first thought was that Gabe was trying out an April Fool’s Joke!

Michael Babischkin Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I’d consider it as a replacement to our Subaru Outback wagon. For some of us, our MINI isn’t a toy but a daily driver and workhorse. A larger MINI like the Clubman would be a welcome supplement to our smaller MINI…

For the record, besides the 19 month old, my MINI has also been used to haul a wide variety of plants, slate tiles, bags of mulch, bags of potting soil, groceries, and various building materials…

I say bring on the Clubman, in two versions no less, a passenger one like that pictured above and a cargo one with no rear seats and no rear windows…

TooLShack Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Some of you people saying silly things things like “It’s a Maxi!” Need to learn some Mini history. Ken post about the clubman is a nice start.

I don’t know how many times I’ve read “Gotta get rid of the Mini” posts on Nam and other forums because people are expecting children. This clubman will give people a car that they can haul a child around with and it still be a Mini.

I think it looks great and will be a nice addition to the Mini line up.

Gabe Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Well said Toolshack!

Chris Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Pretty soon even MINI’s will be getting gas mileage of 9 MPG. Not only is it a MINI but you can be sure they will charge extra for UGLY!!!

Come on MINI? Why are you gonna confuse consumers with the MINI brand name? Just start a new division called… UGLY

$$$Greed perhaps$$$$

Matt Mar 16th, 2005 Link

what’s with the negativity? BMW’s doing a fine job as custodian of the brand. they’re maintaining the fun factor and continuing with new versions of classic MINI models. where was all the belly aching when the convertible was introduced? so because the convertible’s fun it’s okay but the clubman and automatic broaden it’s appeal it’s wrong?

i’ll admit, i’m not fond of the automatic, and the clubman’s a little big for my tastes. if i needed that sort of hauling capacity in the mid/high 20’s i’ll be looking at used BMW/Audi’s. however, would you prefer MINI go like Porsche and co-develop an SUV with… let’s say… Rover? didn’t think so.

Chris Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Because its big and bulky size goes against everything the ads try to portray. MINI is sort of “SELLING OUT” if you will.

Matt Mar 16th, 2005 Link

how is it selling out to introduce a new version of a classic variant?

TooLShack Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I’m sorry Chris, but you sound like a idiot. The Clubman will be a awesome addition, and I’m sure it will be a hit. Now only if they would redo the Moke.

Volkan Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Well said Matt… Especially about the convertible. Bashing the wagon for no appearant reason (other than some vague “uggly” statements) is like saying “the convertible looks little girly for a MINI brand”.

C’mon people, this is not aiming at reducing the “coolness” of your MINI. If some people need more room and want a MINI, then let them have it.

And, if a consumer is “confused” becase a given car brand has more than 3 models (which all look VERY similar), then that consumer does not deserve to be on the face of the earth based on evolutionary concerns…

ANTSMINI Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Wether you like it or not, I dont see it selling well. People who want extra room and use for a family arent going to buy that.

Vic Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I can’t wait until they announce that it’ll have an automatic trans.

Boy, will that cause ‘em to post negative comments here!!!!

(he he)

Victoria Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I was just thinking yesterday that an ideal next MINI model would be a 6-door Clubman diesel/hybrid. Guess my gut’s not too far off, but I’m SOL on the hybrid hopes, and I’ll miss the clamshell bonnet. Still, I love the progress; the original Mini brand had many highly recognizable variants, and this brand extension on the new MINI is wholly appropriate. Thanks for bringing this up, Gabe.

doug Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Well, We are all allowed our opinions. Some people get bent when somone elses opinion is opposed to their own.
So …….

Here’s my OPINION.

“Let’s Make A PT Cruiser” - MINI Advertising 2006

I think that this model is the next step to watering down the Marque. Extending and adding weight in this manner can only take away from performance and style.

After hearing all about the changes expected in the 2007 models, this does not surprise me. We will always remember 2002-2006 as the best years of the MINI.

Farewell MINI. It’s been a fun ride.

There are many more performance wagons available that will outperform the Clubman.

I will not go into listing them here… I own one.

I agree with all the negative comments.

mapleleaf Mar 16th, 2005 Link

There are British Car Club and Mini purists out there that don’t recognize the new MINI as a British car. They think it is just some BMW trying to capture the nostalgia of the original Mini. Those of us that are new MINI owners tend to scoff at them and view them as being “stuck-up” and the like.

I find it interesting that now MINI is introducing an updated version of an old Mini product and now we have some of the new MINI owners who are acting like the so called purists that don’t like any of the new MINI’s.

Hey, I like the Audi TT and even the Audi A4. I don’t like the Audi A4 wagon but I can still like the other models. Why can’t MINI be the same as other car companies? Do I like the MINI Clubman? No, not really (the suicide doors are kinda cool) but then again my wife and I don’t have any kids and don’t plan to. The MINI Cooper is perfect for us. Like it was said earlier, why can’t we have a MINI that is a family-friendly? I would rather pull up next to a MINI Clubman with two kids in the back instead of a Chevy Suburban.

I think we have too many MINI owners that are too closed minded about new MINI introductions. If a MCS automatic and a Clubman help grow the brand then it is a good thing. Do I want an MCS automatic or Clubman? No. Should they be available for people who do want them? Yes.

05DSMCS Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I’m split on the reaction to this. Personally, I think it’s fine. This is loyal to MINI tradition, and if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. I don’t see how this would affect the brand as a whole, though.

My split feelings are between how ridiculous some folks sound who are so against any changes at all, and how cool is it to be part of a group that is so ultra-passionate about their cars. I lean heavily to the latter, although many if not most of these negative posts have me rolling my eyes.

Chris Mar 16th, 2005 Link

The proof is in the pudding. Lets see how quickly this model is put out to pasture!!! And remember folks, years from now when you hear they are stopping production of this model due to low sales, you heard it here first!

MINI should change its advertising campaign because they first told us “Less is More”.

Now I guess they are telling us “More is More”.

This mixed messaging is completely off the mark.

Sorry, you wont catch a “MAXI” in front of my pad.

Gabe Mar 16th, 2005 Link

05DSMCS - Yeah I hear you man. Some of these negative comments are pretty childish…

Jack07734 Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Sorry to go against the grain here but I like it. It would make a great replacement for my Caravan.

I hope that it comes in an “S” version with a sun roof.

And yes I am serious here.

Everyone appears to have forgotten all of the mini truck type variants. I wonder how long before the pickup comes out.

Cheers,
Jack

PocketRobot Mar 16th, 2005 Link

The Clubman is a real MINI, just Google Clubman and you will get hundreds of pics.

Here is a good page:

http://www.hippenet.de/English/ Mini/Minibase.html

MINI’s used to be owned by nice people who would wave to you as you drove by. Where are all these Cooper elitists coming from?

Steve Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I participated in a MINI marketing focus group last weekend in NYC. They had the next generation of Cooper in attendance (the exterior seemed finalized, but the interior was still a very fragile mock-up - they wouldn’t even allow me to open the door myself!). You can see my full recollections here:
http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86948

iLoveMotoring Mar 16th, 2005 Link

It’s amazing how many people here who have no clue on the history of the Mini!

Oddly enough, those are the same people who dislike this Mini variant.

Crush Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I can’t beleive the negativity in this thread…

I’m a young lad at 22, but I know some of the mini history. The Clubman is a classic model of the mini, and should be in a lineup of the new mini’s. I also think they should make a panel van style, as they had with the classics, and a pickup.

Sure these versions may not be liked by everybody but it opens the market to those who needed something other then a cute small car.

Just remember, when these new models phase out due to lack of popularity, that will make mine more collectible and increase it’s value down the road…

don’t beleive me, check the prices for a mini truck vs a standard mini :)

David Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I knew nothing of MINI until I saw a prototype Cooper in Maxim magazine (yes, the men’s mag) and fell in love. Only after further research, did I find out about its heritage.
I think most US MINI owners know little to nothing about the heritage of Mini. i.e. the original Clubman and Moke, etc. To introduce the new Clubman is an assault to all they know about what a MINI is. That is why they have a hard time accepting it. To most of the buying public, this variant is very anti-MINI, and I don’t think it will sell as well, except to those who do know about the original Clubman.

Chris Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Not so!!! I think everyone who says that not many Mini enthusiasts or otherwise do not know of MINI history are only kidding themselves.

Even the name Clubman is just as outdated.

If I buy a MINI I want to buy something small and agile. Something sporty.

When you tarnish the name MINI with a stationwagon it ruins the brand. It no longer means “Less is More”.

The Mini(notice lowercase) of yesteryear was a completely different company. Let’s keep it that way.

David Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Chris, you’ve repeated yourself three times already. Now tell us how you really feel…

As many MINI enthusiasts as there are out there today, very few have or had a relationship with the original Mini, other than reading up on it. Chris, have you driven a Clubman? Have you owned one or known someone who has? Does your experience with the original Mini go beyond the printed or virtual word and picture? I hope so, because you seem intent on carving your opinion in stone.

Look, I don’t particularly care about the Clubman either, and I don’t think it will sell very well, but due to the fact that there is a history with the Clubman, it only seems like a logical next step for BMW to take. The intro of the MINI is, in itself, a rebirth of an old lineage. Did you not see this step coming?

IGoDayGlo Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I recently was part of a marketing study that revealed the new Mini, and it didn’t have a conventional hood or double headlamps. It had similar headlamps to the current car and clamshell hood like the current car.

Given the Mini’s consistent popularity since its introduction, it would be foolish not to diversify the brand. In fact, it’s inevitable. I don’t understand the animosity towards Mini for suggesting a successful model that might not perform as well as the original. It’s like getting mad at Ford for making gas-guzzling SUVs. Both BMW and Ford’s jobs are to sell lots of cars.

I think what we need to hope for is that BMW is clever while they diversify. For instance, this model has smaller rear doors to keep the wheelbase short, a Mini trademark.

Chris Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I collect old and new Mini’s (and MINI’s), 13 in all. Yes, I saw it coming and yes, I think it is the wrong move for BMW. As I said before being attacked, the proof is in the pudding.

Let’s motor in granpa’s clubman! Shall we?

You heard it here first! And thats my opinion (Set in Stone).

doug Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Does anyone really think someone cares?

Listen, BMW is not Austin or Morris. The general consuming public could care less about lineage or history. Look at the spectrum of buyers who own MINI’s now. Like was said previously, these people learn about their car AFTER they bought it.
History is just that… History. A thing of the past.

The MINI, the new beetle and the New Mustang are doing pretty good with retro. But I don’t think we’ll be seeing a NEW FORD PINTO or Mustang II.
Even the New Thunderbird proved that you can’t bring everything that was cool, back and make it cool again.

I think that the extended frame and extra doors negate all the prvious advertising, the MINI Propaganda, the otherwise successfull campaigns we all fell for or we’re suckered into believing.

I personally do not care about the NEW MINI’s being rooted to the classics. It’s just a marketing plot. It shares some of the same values and ideas, but it’s a BMW.

There are elements to this that “could” be cool, but it shows no forethought on MINI’s part.

And many of you seem to take these opinions to heart a little too passionatly.
This brand is about to Jump the Shark.

Ken Mar 16th, 2005 Link

With out the Mini you “MINI elitists” wouldn’t be driving a MINI. Big picture, gas is getting more expensive families are dumping the SUV for smaller crossover type vehicles. So were does that leave those of us who love our MINI’s and would like to pile the kids, dogs and stuff in for a drive in the country?

None of us really need a MINI with 200 horses but we do love to drive them.
Let MINI make vehicles that serve needs, if they exist, for the people that will use them everyday for work whether you’re a Plummer or an accountant and Chris if you don’t like them go buy a Vette so that you aren’t associated with us more open minded crazy people.
The open maket will decide if MINI is making a wrong move.
New or old the mini concept was cutting edge and created for the everyman by a man that realized the value of economy. Then John Copper made them go fast. Then BMW revived and updated the design. And so on and so on.
It was made for the many not the few.

GSKChicago Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Get over it. If you don’t like the car, don’t buy the car. Your MINI is still a MINI and a Clubman won’t change how much you love your car and how much fun it is. I doubt there are BMW owners that don’t like the MINI that stopped buying a BMW because MINI’s are sold next door. They choose to still buy the BMW (costs aside).

As far as “Less is More”… Marketing campaigns generally change with time or the campaign becomes stale and less useful. There are very few marketing campaigns, for anything, that hasn’t changed, morphed or been completely changed. Plus, the MINI is still a MINI and the Clubman would be a different model MINI. There are different models of BMW each with their own marketing campaign, but all still a BMW. Ferrari, Porsche and on and on, same thing.

johnsocal Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Let’s give the Cooper a Bigger Brother.

Let’s have 2 extra doors.

Let’s give the back seat passenger more room to stretch out.

Let’s have more room for luggage so we can take longer trips.

Let’s Motor :D

David Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Who is attacking who, Chris?
You decided to make the blanket statement that “everyone” who says that MINI enthusiasts don’t know much about Mini history is kidding themselves. That’s attacking “everyone”. Also, speaking in absolutes is a dangerous thing to do.

The average consumer who takes an interest in the current MC or MCS could care less about 40 year old Monte Carlo rallies and Sir Alec Issigonis, etc. They want what they like NOW. But some may actually be saying, “Gee, if it had more cargo space I would buy it.” Especially those for whom it is a primary vehicle. I don’t think it will be the hit that the MC and MCS is, but it will fill that niche that BMW is looking to fill.

Look, I’m bored with this. No more posts from me on this topic.

Miles Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Dang that’s kinda cool! From a usability standpoint, that’s a really cool idea. From a looks standpoint, I’m not sure I’m into it. But still, it’s pretty neat-o.Miles

joe Mar 16th, 2005 Link

wow … i think no matter what the next car from MINI looks like, the reaction of the majority is going to be negative

if they try to make everyone happy, they’ll fail miserably, keep that in mind

Crush Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I would drive a mini hearse i could carry “mini” people :)

Gabe Mar 16th, 2005 Link

FYI - derogatory comments of any kind will not be tolerated. Personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated. The moderation level on this post has just been upped.

F.R Walter Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I wonder what y’all will say when MINI comes back with the panel van…..??

Trevor Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I personally like a small car, so I will stick with the small MINI. I don’t think this is a bad idea. The one thing I do not like is the tremendous expanse of roof. maybe it needs a cool rack to give it some interest. just a thought

F.R Walter Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Sunroof, luggage rack, side pipes (faked?), body color vinyl over the rear windows with the heart shaped window cut out. Yup, I can see the replacement for my ’70s van here.

I love the MINI, It can be any thing you want it to be, Yes come out with an all wheel drive. Yes to an off road version. Be every thing for everyone.

Bruce Mar 16th, 2005 Link

All this bantering of the word “Clubman” implying an estate, or station wagon, version of the Mini is just plain wrong historically. The Clubman was an entire range of the classic Minis, not just a wagon. All Clubman Minis had one thing in common, a “squared-off” front design as opposed to the “round nose” classic Minis (which is what our new MINIs emulate). Clubman Minis and round nose Minis were sold at the same time, but the Clubman versions were placed as the higher trim levels of the model range.

Station wagon versions of the classic round nose Minis were made from from 1960 to 1969 and were badged as either the Austin Mini Countryman or the Morris Mini Traveller. Starting in 1970 there was a wagon version of the Clubman Minis, but it was just one of several models offered.

So… station wagon versions of the classic Mini were made for the first 20 years of the 40 year production run, and only stopped when hatchback competitors came on the market. These wagons have a huge place in Mini history.

I’m all for a wagon version of the current MINI.

Andy Mar 16th, 2005 Link

OK, lets be honest here, the car matches up with the heritage of the brand. It keeps the styling consistent with the other models in the line-up. So the only major thing left is the performance. Have you ever driven an M5, just because it is a rather large family sedan does not mean it isnt capable of amazing things. Even if the clubman is larger, that doesnt mean that it cant still have the same fun to drive factor as the cooper and that it cant still be as amazing a vehicle as the cooper.

For those that are so worried, look at the convertible. How much effort did they put into the top so that it matched the shape of the cooper. They will put the effort into this vehicle to keep it from being any of the things that so many are worried about

Allan Mar 16th, 2005 Link

I’m going to buy one just to annoy Chris

dillon Mar 16th, 2005 Link

…I agree with PocketRobot. When I frist got my MINI,a little over 2 years ago,one would see that kind of thing(at least here in Atlanta);now,if you ask some of the more recent owners about their MINI,they give you that,”…why is he talking to me” look.
…of well…I’m starting to lust after the Lotus Elise,anyway.

Dan Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Did I miss something? Is this going to be the complete and total replacement of the MINI line? Is someone saying that there will be no more Cooper or Cooper S? This is going to add to the MINI line-up, not detract from it. It will meet a need that comsumers are looking for. The marketing will reflect the individual product benefits of the product. It’s still going to be smaller than most anything out on the market and it will meet a need that the current models cannot. If you don’t like it, don’t need it, or if it insults your sensibilities, I highly doubt anyone will hold a gun to your head and force you to buy it. As for concerns about re-sale or “investment” value, with very few exceptions, production model cars are not going to be museum pieces. There are hundreds of thousands of MINIs now on the road, with hundreds of thousands more to come. They are hardly unique, contrary to the marketing. If this new version doesn’t work out, then production will stop sooner rather than later….those will be the collectors’ items, not the MINIs out on the streets now. However, if there is demand for these and other variations yet to come, the familiar MINIs we now have will retain their resale value as production capacities (even with investment in expansion) will be split between all the models, thus increasing the wait time for all models, and the resale market should continue to do very well. I’ll stop now, as I seem to be rambling. Did I cover everything?

Jack07734 Mar 16th, 2005 Link

Speaking of future MINI variants I would like to see the Wolseley Hornet make a comeback. After all if we can have a Clubbie and a Moke then why not a Wolseley.

Now about now you are saying what’s a Wolseley? It and the Riley Elf were upscale versions of the original Mini. A picture of mine can be found here: http://www.somc.on.ca/albums/Jack07734/ed4a.sized.jpg

Cheers,
Jack

Alex Mar 16th, 2005 Link

A lot of people seem to be making assumptions here, it will be ugly, it won’t be any fun, it won’t sell. I think MINI knows what they’re doing (even if there’s too much cost-cutting going on) and will make an appealing wagon. It looks like it’ll be good when finalized, and it’ll open up the MINI brand to people who need more space but still want the cool factor the MINI has! I’m not saying it’ll outsell the Cooper and Cooper S, but I think it’ll do well! :D

johnsocal - great post!

johnsocal Mar 16th, 2005 Link

New Clubman Slogan<

Lets Motor- “Together”

Casey Mar 16th, 2005 Link

If it were a clubman - shouldn’t it have a clubman front? just call it an estate…i can see it now - sticker wood to recreate a countryman. I’m not a fan of suicide doors - but like hte idea of an estate….but i only want 2 doors…and barn doors at the rear….i still want to see a truck.

rbm4 Mar 16th, 2005 Link

“station wagon” MINI would be cool! I don’t know about now but a few years ago I believe the owner of the local Ferrari dealership used to drive around town in one of the original ones! Just picked up my 05 MCS and I also have a Honda Mini van. Maybe in a few years I’ll can get rid of it and have a new JCW Cooper S Wagon pack 2 kids the dog and go motoring!

rbm4 Mar 16th, 2005 Link

BTW, Jack07734, the Wolseley’s sweet!

Nathaniel Salzman Mar 17th, 2005 Link

As someone who does branding for a living, I wanted to address all the comments about “ruining the MINI brand.” The situation is not quite so dire. I’m not talking about the car here, I’m talking about the MINI brand itself.

Firstly, MINI has several factors that add to what is called “brand equity” - the baggage both good and bad that make up the image of that brand. MINI has pedigree in both its British heritage and its German parent company’s engineering. The current cars are able to draw on the practical nature of their predecessors and have earned for themselves a reputation for economy, performance, style, and reliability. Concordantly, the MINI brand has to endure small accusations of being a very small, trend-car brand with only limited appeal to “motoring” minded drivers, and trying to ride the retro wave. But in terms of brand equity, the good far outweighs the bad and Crispin, Porter & Bogusky have done a great job of bringing that brand experience home in not just advertising, but also in the dealer experience. The Let’s Motor message is authentic to the car’s performance and economy and echoes across every step in the looking and buying process.

But bottom line, the MINI is a baby BMW in terms of brand and that puts it in a very good place in its market “positioning” – a word which here refers to the unique role a particular brand or product plays in its overall market segment. We’ve all already read here on Motoringfile that MINI is currently 6th in global brand recognition, so obviously MINI’s branding is doing well.

SIDE NOTE: I’m not in any way trying to be condescending, I just don’t want to leave anyone behind in the marketing terminology.

Now as for the brand itself, and what effect adding to the MINI line will have on brand equity or sales, let me offer this bit of perspective. Ultimately, a brand is simply a place for the consumer to belong. A brand is not an intellectual understanding or appreciation for a particular company or product, as much as an emotional connection we make with that company or product. It sounds silly, but we do form emotional relationships with the things we buy. As for MINI, I don’t think we have to look any further than this post to confirm that. We have people screaming at each other in type over what is right now still just a concept car. This emotional connection is where the brand really lives. It’s not in the slogan of Let’s Motor or the color box on black brochures or snappy billboards, or clever copywriting. The MINI brand is the connection the car makes with those who drive it and those who want to. MINI, like all great brands (and make no mistake about it, MINI is up there with Apple, Nike, and Coca Cola in terms of branding – talk to any creative professional in the advertising industry) - Mini takes a great product and makes that a place for people to come together and belong.

Therefore, if belonging is what at the end of the day helps sell cars, diversifying the car lineup within reason widens the group of people who will want to belong. You all may think I’m being way too touchy-feely with all of this, but believe me, these are the principles that drive the bulk of the advertising industry. And as Luke Sullivan says “…good advertising builds sales, but great advertising builds factories.” If I’m not mistaken, MINI is building a new factory virtually as I write this. There are people out there who want to belong to the MINI brand but the current Cooper models don’t offer them something they need. Maybe that need is more trunk space or a bigger back seat. If so, then a MINI Clubman might be just what they’re looking for. On the other hand, it simply may not sell. In that case, MINI will stop making them, but the brand will live on. GMC just announced that they’re discontinuing the Quadra-steer system on their Sierra trucks and the Envoy XUV. Will this be the end of GMC as a brand? Of course not. Their brand equity as a truck builder is unchanged, these variants simply didn’t sell.

So fear not for the MINI brand. Even if the Clubman is a step in the wrong direction in the long run, MINI will live on. The Cooper and Cooper S are wildly and consistently popular. And this isn’t because of the advertising, but because they are good cars, the advertising simply turns people on to that. It’s such a great little car that as more get bought and driven, more people want to belong to that group of owners. Furthermore, as their reliability and economy continue to be proven over and over again, people will be drawn to them and hopefully to their new siblings.

As for the aesthetics, we can go back and forth all day about what we all like and don’t like. But something I don’t understand are these superlative declarations of “It’s so unbelievably ugly” when it looks mostly just like a Cooper. Some may not like the overall dimensions or the new proportions or suicide doors, but all in all, the car looks basically the same. But that’s me. To each their own.

Gabe Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Nathaniel - I think you just won the first post of the month award. I can’t imagine saying it any better than that.

Nathaniel Salzman Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Thanks Gabe, that means a lot coming from you. I’ve really enjoyed your reviews and posts.

I’ve spent enough time trying to help clients make good branding decisions to understand a lot of these concearns. That, and this thread was getting a little apocalyptic. I hope it helped everybody see a little bit more of the bigger picture.

njpaguy Mar 17th, 2005 Link

People…lighten up! (Although its great to see such passion!)

Here’s a non-typical situation I’ll share with you. I’m 46, married, with two sons (ages 9 and 12) who are both ice hockey goalies on travel teams. We own a BMW 5-series wagon and a Toyota Land Cruiser for obvious reaons. But we also wanted something that would be fun to drive while saving us money at the gas pump for a commuter/single player game and practice vehicle. We test drove the Golf TDI and Toyota Prius among others…and enthusiastically chose a 04 MINI MCS. And one thing we discussed after our initial test drive was, “I can’t wait until they build a wagon!” Why? Because BMW knows how to engineer a vehicle to be FUN to drive.

When my older son gets ready to head of to college, he’s not interested in inheriting the Land Cruiser. (And he’s not getting the 540 wagon!) But the MINI wagon would be “cool” yet practical. Reliable, safe, and FUN! Room for his goalie gear, and room to move his stuff back and forth from college with a friend or family. Sure, he could do the same with a Subaru Forester or some other lame-ass small wagon/crossover thingie, but why?

This isn’t the end of the world, people. Some act as though MINI has betrayed you with their marketing. Worry not, the collective marketing brain trust will find a way to make this variant “cool” without tarnishing the reputation of the brand.

As for those who fear the unthinkable, a MINI SUV, imagine this: take the MINI MCS and simply enlarge the proportions - much like enlarging an image on a copy machine. Just blow it up to SUV size. I know, it’s whacked, but it sure would scare the neighbors! One thing kis for sure - it would be the coolest SUV around!

Motor on people…

blalor Mar 17th, 2005 Link

When my older son gets ready to head of to college, he’s not interested in inheriting the Land Cruiser. … But the MINI wagon would be “cool” yet practical. Reliable, safe, and FUN!

I don’t have (and don’t INTEND to have) kids. But if I did, I think a bare-bones non-S Cooper would be a great first car, primarily because they are so safe. The electronic nannies, stability, limited power, handling and limited carrying capacity seem to make it a good car for a teenager. That and the attitude and appearance of it.

My dad was always concerned about my Cherokees and his Explorer flipping over (”I half-expect to come outside and see it on its side because it has a flat tire” he once said…). I think the interior turning into a stay-puft marshmallow in the event of a major collision is a major plus, too.

Pete/MyMini Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Looks interesting…I’m sure there is a market niche to be filled. Hence, BMW will move accordingly. I can see a lot of folks who are not MINI owners now because of the two doors being enticed into this one.

db Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Well, I don’t care what any of you say, come ‘07 there will be one of these parked in my driveway for sure! If for no other reason then to actually have usable backseats and a little more space to haul stuff.

Don’t worry, I’ll still have a ’shorty’ around too :D

Nicholas P Mar 17th, 2005 Link

I absolutely LOVE my 05 MSC…i would love to drive it forever…however, i will probably be having kids in 2-3 years…at that point, i’ll have to look into something larger as well (hopefully still keep the S for mountain carving)…well if the MINI clubman has decent handling, then it’ll be my #1 choice…why DRIVE a van/xover/suv when you can MOTOR in a clubman?

Blake Learmonth Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Why are we deluding ourselves into believing the new Minis are tiny? It is an optical illusion caused by huge wheels stuck on the corners of the car. I parked my S next to a 60s cooper yesterday…that caused a serious reality check.
Bring on the Clubman; not everyone can afford a different car for each aspect of their lives. If you think it is ugly, don’t buy one!

Vanwall Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Hmmmm. Nathaniel & Bruce just about about nailed it. The MINI brand can’t survive as a one-note, it would eventually saturate it’s segment. Personally, I’m waiting for the day when a MINI wagon modded to ‘S’ specs comes sailin’ by - I’ll salute him! The only prerequisite I would wish for in any MINI product, tho - superlative handling is a MUST. But I think they’re planning on that. ;-)

           BCNU,
         Rob in Dago

Matt Mar 17th, 2005 Link

conceptually, i think the clubman would be great as a delivery vehicle for a small business…

Frank Mar 17th, 2005 Link

I have said from the beginning… I’ll be the first one to put down my name on the dealer’s waiting list for a new Clubman station wagon. As a matter of fact, my wife will only let go of her ‘02 Cooper CVT for a new Clubman wagon.

My ‘05 MCS and the Clubman wagon…who could ask for a better garage?

Chris Mar 17th, 2005 Link

You can buy them cause u like them or buy them cause yo want to annoy me, but either way when you see people staring they are probably making fun of you.

LOL

doug Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Nathanial…. I would enjoy a conversation with you.
If you have a few spare minutes, shoot me an email!

Thanks

Frank Mar 17th, 2005 Link

Hey Chris, I think you need to start taking Prozac….

Greg Mar 18th, 2005 Link

Hey everyone…Remember a few years ago, VW brought out a model called a “New Beetle”? And where is this model now? Nowheresville…why? Because they never updated or tried to change and improve it from just being a “beetle”. Anyway the old sidebangers weren’t that popular except for fans of Dean Jones and Herbie movies…
So why come down on MINI for trying to establish its own brand and model range…and yes previous USA commenters, old Mini saloon had a sister/brother Wagon, a Van, a Utility, a Moke (Jeep), a Cooper, a Riley Elf, a Wolseley Hornet and a aftermarket convertible.
So bring on the variants - it looks like MINIs in this for the long haul.
Think of the gas that’s being saved thus MINI is helping save the planet as well.

RML Mar 18th, 2005 Link

I think you did a great job summing up how a lot of us feel, Nathan!

Charlie Mar 19th, 2005 Link

Chris…you’re a moron. This thing isn’t “big and bulky”. It’s smaller than a Civic or a Jetta by a large margin. It is essentially a MINI with a slightly lengthened wheelbase and more space. Big and bulky is the Ford 500, the Explorer, the Mazda6 wagon. This is still a small, maneuverable, European vehicle. Moreover, a vehicle conceptually similar was made based on the old Mini.

If MINI is going to survive, it has to present a wide portfolio of vehicles- one supermini hatchback doesn’t cut it. It NEEDS variants like this. Many people- myself among them- really like MINIs but wouldn’t consider them because they require a vehicle that can carry people or stuff. This sort of vehicle is EXACTLY what MINI needs- I ended up with a Mazda3 that I’m ambivalent about because a MINI just didn’t have enough cargo and passenger room. I would buy this. No company can survive offering only one major product- it needs variety to appeal to many needs. Apple couldn’t survive if it just sold the iMac, could it? Take 3 seconds and think about it, instead of trumpeting your asinine opinion and repeating the same phrases.

Your endless repetitions of “its a MAXI” and “you heard it here first” make you sound like a half-wit. I suspect you’re much younger than you would have us believe, though I can’t prove it. Deal with the fact that a car company needs a wide portfolio to survive.

MINISquidz Mar 19th, 2005 Link

FYI… there was a car called the “Maxi” built by British Leyland in the 70’s. It was like an overgrown ‘mini’…it had a tranverse 1750cc engine, 4 doors, and was a hatchback with loads of space inside. It was a disgustingly bad car to drive though.

Greg,

Shep Mar 20th, 2005 Link

HaHa joked “here come the soccer moms”. I can’t imagine a better thing for a soccer mom to drive. High gas mileage, fine handling, low pollution, not hazardous to other road users, “cool” for the adolescents, more room in the parking lots, less fender scratches on other cars from incompetent drivers of behomoths, less need for another oil war…

Rocketboy Mar 20th, 2005 Link

Wow, Far be it from me to engage in personal attacks, but wow, is your relation with your MINI so fragile that the introduction of a more station-wagon type MINI will shatter your world view? Imagine the horror if they re-introduce the MINI Van? Or the MINI Pickup? Or, horror of all horrors, a 4WD MINI Moke!!!! Da DUMMMMM!!! I don’t get how it looks like a Saturn, or how it will somehow make your Cooper slower and less agile. Nor how you expect MINI to survive as a brand if they only offer 1 body style. (Ok, 1.5, if you consider the convertable). I say bring on the new MINI models. Sometime down the road, I might want another MINI to add to my collection. I would love to have a choice of what MINI will be my 2nd MINI. Or maybe someone wants a MINI, but they either have kids, or plan on having kids, but wants more room than the current Cooper has. Sorry, being anti-anything but Cooper is just stupid.

Stuart Mar 23rd, 2005 Link

I’ve just read every post, and as usual love the light and shade , but as a MINI owner and a Mini owner of Clubman estates or station wagons, I’d just like to say that an ‘S’ version will be on my shopping list. Its what the BRAND is crying out for, something a little larger that will tempt those in who currently shy away because its a tad too small here and there. Might be somewhere to put a Spare wheel , so you can all ditch those runflats too :)

Gareth Mar 24th, 2005 Link

I found this site this morning because every so often I search for news about the forecoming clubman. I felt certain a clubman was in the cards as soon as I bought my Cooper S several years ago. It’s simply logical; one of the advantages of reviving the brand is its range. I love my Cooper S. I am a city dweller and a commuter and don’t want a car any larger than it needs to be. Right now, with my nine-month-old the size of an average sixteen-month-old, and growing like Topsy, I foresee needing a car a little larger than what we now have. I want that car also to be a MINI.

I don’t want a car much larger. I for sure don’t want an SUV. I want something I can still turn around in a small space, something that still zips in and out of rotaries, something I can still park in a small space, something that gets reasonable gas mileage.

So what shall I do? Shall I abandon the MINI for a station wagon made by someone else? I hope I won’t have to. I hope MINI will expand its range as the original Mini did, and give me an option to stay within the brand with a car that gives that little extra one needs to put kids in carseats in the back. (Really, it’s the carseats that are the problem, not the kids).

I love my MINI. It is my dream car. I loved driving an original Mini when I was at university in Wales, and I was thrilled when the new MINI came out. But the truth is that either my MINI or my New Beetle TDI will have to go in a few years, and we’re getting 45 MPG in the Beetle.

I agree with Victoria: the dream would be a MINI Clubman Estate with a diesel/hybrid engine. I wish MINI would come up with a diesel engine that has some power, and a wagon is the logical place to put it. For options, I think this car needs a fixed luggage rack, and wood trim. I’d like to see this model take more clues from the Austin Seven Countryman or Morris Mini Minor Traveller than the Mini Clubman.

Look at the original and tell me it’s not a beauty. This is where MINI needs to go.

http://www.minireg.com/disp_auto.asp?autoid=82

http://www.autoarch.com/sherwoodforest.html

john Mar 25th, 2005 Link

this seems like an interesting variation.

all you anti-Clubman people, have you ever tried taking a long trip with the MINI? it’s a TIGHT squeeze if you bring any amount of equipment, outdoor gear, etc on top of clothes with you.

i’m willing to entertain any new, larger MINI varieties. calm down, i’m sure it won’t be as large as a 7 series, yet.

Jeff Apr 9th, 2005 Link

Well it is definitely a mini estate. But the clubman was a square nosed mini made in the 70’s I think they should call it a MINI Estate or a Mini Countryman…. Not a MINI Clubman.

Al Apr 24th, 2005 Link

Photoshop anyone?

Mini142612 Apr 29th, 2005 Link

Hi all from Australia. Just adding my colonial 2 cents worth to the debate. I admit I didnt like the new mini at all when it came ouot however I have warmed to it and I am actually getting waves from the drivers now(I drive a 1977 Clubman). People are getting used to them and after driving one I quite enjoyed the poke it had.

The one thing that concerns me is the banter and the marketing on the car. For those who read National Geographic there was an interesting article in there displaying who made what in the new Mini. No less than 28 manufacturers involved in the manufacture of the car - only 2 component groups are actually manufactured in the EU. The majority comes from Brazil!! Now that worries me a little however I didnt let that get in the way of the experience of the drive and as I said I liked it a lot.

The new Clubby - take it or leave it - put it this way - if someone gave me one I would proudly drive it!!

Hooroo for now

Rob Forsyth
Orstrayliah

Gabe Apr 29th, 2005 Link

Rob - are you talking about this: A world of parts. Just to clarify, the only thing that comes from Brazil is the engine and that will be changing to the UK in 2007.

willigenburg May 27th, 2005 Link

I have a mini one now for 3 years with about 66000 k on it , trouble free i mightg add , wondefull little machine very loyal and always ready to go.

The clubman is trully amazing i am about 2 meters tall and i would love to be able to sit in the back of my own car for a chance hahahaha.

But offcourse the in the front it is better :-)).

Mini sign me up for one , i want to be the first official buyer of the clubman.

Mini will be my car for live and ill keep driving it till i go grey and decrapped :-))

Greets from holland

r Jun 6th, 2005 Link

it is cool

christopher Orbach Jun 24th, 2005 Link

I think, if it’s handled right, and the performance and the interior are in keeping with MINI’s current design asthetic, the Clubman will be a great car.

I’ve been wanting to get a MINI for months, but have been hesitant, because, as a musician, I often have to lug a lot of gear around. The Clubman would be the perfect vehicle for me. It retains the flair and vibe of the Mini, but with just a wee bit more space. I would happily wait for one of these cars.

Impetuous One Sep 23rd, 2005 Link

Chris, you made the comment that an incresed line up would dilute the concept on owneing a sporty MINI.

Did the Cayenne wash away the heritage of the Carrera GT……
…… and what about the Porsche sedan in delevopment?

BMW was smart enough to bring back the MINI, I’ll trust them to do justice to the Traveller heritage, and when it’s available I’ll order one with a JCW package, pit my COMP SSR’s on it and haul butt to the grocery store and the autocross track.

Andrew Oct 25th, 2005 Link

i dont like it it it looks too much like the new mini(gross). a mini is meant to be small(like the old classic minis) the old clubman they changeed the front it was a success why not try it again and have like the old style grill that looks different.

Ken Nov 22nd, 2005 Link

I love the idea and don’t see the problem with a few extra inchs. if u wanna get technical the new mini is bigger then the old one in the first place….. anyway i just want them the complete the mini line up with a pickup, same wheel base as the clubman. ore possibly a delivery style clubman with no rear seats ore windows. a lil pickup would be awesome!!!!

Oli from the UK Dec 2nd, 2005 Link

Hi,

I own a classic mini clubman estate from 1978. It’s beautiful.

Although I would never buy a BMW Mini, I do think that BMW are doing a good job with introducing the estate version.

BMW will never be able to replicate the driving sensation of a classic mini but I think by introducing the models that were once classics, they ARE keeping with the heritage of the classic minis.

I’ve heard a few people say that minis should only be short cars….trust me when I say that the clubman estate is one of THE most fun minis to drive.

If you don’t like the look of it, that’s one thing. But I personally wouldn’t blame BMW for producing what can only be seen as a modern day version of a classic mini estate.

-Oli

Ricardo Feb 7th, 2006 Link

Please, that is not a mini!!! for that people who want a big car for trips or vacations with the family it´s nice. But, always a but, the magic of a mini it´s the size. My 70´s clubman fit in this 2005 car.
Sorry for my English.

Long life for the original minis.

Ricardo/Portugal

MotoringFile » Archive » The New MINI Keeps the Clamshell Hood Feb 9th, 2006 Link

[...] Sometimes a polite “I told you so” is in order. It would seem that recent photos published in AutoExpress have verified something we mentioned last March on MotoringFile; MINI will indeed be keeping the clamshell style hood. When we first mentioned that the clamshell hood was staying it caused a bit of ruckus among readers since it had already been established as a sacrificial lamb in the name of cost cutting by the English automotive press. Here’s what we had to say in the “Next Generation Revealed” story we ran last March: [...]

Miniman May 22nd, 2006 Link

Minis aren’t supposed to have 4 doors. If they were making a new mini clubman wouldnt they redesign the front - not lengthen the existing design.

bean machine Nov 22nd, 2006 Link

IT AINT A CLUBMAN WHERE IS THE SQUARE FRONT AND THE EXTRA UNDER BONNET SPACE FRANKLY I THINK YOU BMW SHOUDL JUST LEAVE IT ALONE

corey Nov 24th, 2007 Link

I used to live minis! but with this new car addes to the cute little group It messes it up! i mean c’mon it looks like a station wagon and is in no was a mini but most definatley a “maxi” to quote chris! wow