The much loved (and loathed) CVT transmission available on the MINI One and Cooper will be dropped by MINI in favor of a standard style automatic. No details have been confirmed yet but expect something similar to what is currently found in the Cooper S. And for those that are of the manual persuasion, the Cooper will go from five to six forward gears for it’s manual transmission in 2007. This will undoubtedly go a long way in making those high speed road trips easier on the ears.
Expect the 2007 Cooper S transmission offerings to stay pretty much consistant with what is available today.
So the MC and MCS manual transmissions be basically the same? Maybe just different ratios?
VERY interesting… and since both the Cooper and Cooper S will have Turbos, I can imagine that there will be many people who will buy a Cooper and “tweak” it to match or outperform a Cooper S.
With a very similar (identical?) transmission layout, I forsee that the Cooper will become little more than a “detuned” Cooper S in the next generation.
Is it a KNOWN FACT that both the Cooper and Cooper S will have turbos? I thought that was still speculation.
I keep hearing reference to a turbo Cooper, but doesn’t that mean it wil have to have the 140 bhp version of the new engine? Do you have a source for that? (Because it would be pretty big news if the Cooper would get a power increase from 115 to 140 bhp, would have thought to have seen it on MF – did I miss something?)
Not that 140 bhp would hurt, but since I have been driving a Cooper every day for a few weeks now, I have come back on my opinion that a 1100 kg car with a Cooper-badge should have more than 110-120 BHP – my car is plenty powerful. I don’t think the difference with the ’03 Cooper I drove for only a few days half a year ago can be attributed completely to the JCW Sound Kit (maybe the ECU remap? certainly not the 3-5 BHP top end increase). It leaves that ’03 biting in the dust, I am seriously starting to wonder whether there was just something wrong with that car – I’ve tried resetting the ECU by disconnecting the battery for a night to see if that would get some spunk into it, for crying out loud.
Anyway, sorry for the OT. This news does seem to suggest Mini now also think (like me) there is a need to distinguish the Cooper more from the One. Regardless of my shifted opinion on power needs, I do still think that the overall leap from the base model to the Cooper should be bigger than the leap from Cooper to Cooper S (the idea of an upgrade to a 140 bhp turbo engine also fits in with that). The magic used to be in that Cooper name, with the S “just” being icing on the cake, not an almost 50% power increase. But the magic seems to have shifted to that single letter, with the current line-up.
If you don’t get what I mean, how often have you been asked “is it an S?”, when you told someone you got a Mini Cooper? In the classic days, the C-word used to be enough 😉
<blockquote>I keep hearing reference to a turbo Cooper, but doesn’t that mean it wil have to have the 140 bhp version of the new engine? Do you have a source for that? (Because it would be pretty big news if the Cooper would get a power increase from 115 to 140 bhp, would have thought to have seen it on MF – did I miss something?)</blockquote>
This has never been confirmed to my knowledge and thus never been posted on MF. I’ve heard that the next Cooper won’t have the 140bhp version of the Turbo and more recently that it will.
The six speed on the cooper was desparately needed. Who really wants to be running at 4,000 RPMs on the HWY at 65 MPH? Not me. The only thing that I would like to change about my 2005 MC is the gear box. GIVE ME A SIX SPEED!
Will the MCSa be available at launch of the 2007 model year? Can anyone confirm this yet?
I don’t believe the pre-2005 Coopers run at 4k rpm at 65mph. At least my 2004 MC doesn’t. At 4k rpm it’s around 75-80mph. Plus, it’s not a droning engine noise. Good sound really.
The real plus to another ratio is dropping cruising revs for better fuel economy. For that reason, the extra cog will be welcomed.
Hot digity! For no real rational reason, the 5 spd was the big reason I like the MCS over the MC. I’m looking forward to seeing what the new cars finally look like. 😀
Too bad they couldn’t make a CVT work with the new engine – it’s much superior to a regular slush box in many ways. Most of the carping was about the off-the-line performance, but it’s effectively a 7-speed tranny with top gear an overdrive – at 80 MPH I’m just over 3,000 RPM – and with a ProMini intake and a Remus exhaust, it’s quite quick enough for street work, plus I think it had less problems overall than the early Cooper manual box.
I like Eelke’s analysis of the Cooper hierarchy – there should be more to owning a Cooper compared to a One, and an ‘S’ compared to a Cooper. Hope there’s a tweaking involved in the new Cooper for sure.
BCNU,
Rob in Dago
<blockquote>I can imagine that there will be many people who will buy a Cooper and “tweak†it to match or outperform a Cooper S.</blockquote>
I predict the same, though I’d rather tweak an S. Since the motor will already be turbocharged, getting S power from a Cooper may be something as simple as dialing in the turbo and programming more aggressive VVT. At the worst, it’d be a head-swap and an ECU. Of course, there really isn’t anything keeping current Cooper owners from doing that — the parts are all there to “go S”, just swap the bonnet and start bolting stuff on. If you’ve got SS+ on your Cooper already, turning a Cooper into an S and beyond isn’t that big a leap (though a silly expenditure of money when you could have just bought it that way).
You can draw a comparison to what Honda does with its high-output 4-cylinder engines. They’ll run the same block, bottom end, pistons, and so forth and just crank up the compression – letting iVTEC compensate the valve timing to match. They’ll pull 200+ hp out of 1.8L, but it’s the same bottom end as the more economical engines that are pushing over 40 mpg.
However, the first mod I’d be looking for if I had one of these new motors would be an always-on water pump. I don’t trust the car to turn it on and off for me.
<blockquote> Of course, there really isn’t anything keeping current Cooper owners from doing that — the parts are all there to “go Sâ€ÂÂ, just swap the bonnet and start bolting stuff on.</blockquote>
Not really. The internals of the S engine are beefier. I believe this includes the crank and connecting rods, but I’m not positive.
The MC’s engine has a 10.5:1 compression ratio which makes it hard to boost, the MCS is something like 8.3:1 which is boost friendly. So, the MCS engine is not just the same thing as the MC with a supercharger.
As far as the new engines are concerned, I wouldn’t speculate on what would be needed to get an MC engine to MCS specs, since we don’t exactly know what they are. I would guess the 140hp version won’t be intercooled and perhaps a smaller turbo than the stronger unit, but this is all guesswork……..
Good riddance, the CVT is one of those products that look great in paper but in reality is completly different, I have driven the one in the Audi Convertible and the one in the MINI and both of them sucked. You press the accelerator to cross a street and…. and… and…, so slow to pick up that it borders in the dangerous zone. And I live in Miami (sea level), imagine in Colorado? Uff!
To balance… The CVT-equipped cars will become collectible! They perform in a superior way when driven as we have investigated and documented on MotoringFile and MINI2, but the potential in the MINI CVT was not realized because marketing never captured and properly communicated the engineering and driving flexibility advantages.
The writing was on the wall when the Aisin decision was announced for the MINI Cooper S Automatic. It really does make sense for a common or very closely related component to be installed across the range.
We continue to drive our car for the daily commute (flexible, reliable, fun), on long trips (with very routine 38-45+mpg), and on the track.
The track is where I enjoy telling stories. The MINI (all models) is a momentum car, and it (all models) totally shines when driven this way. The CVT(manual) is very effective in the wet, and the CVT-equipped cars put significant power to the ground in all conditions using SD or fixed-ratio selections. I personally enjoy the comparisons with the current crop of luxury sports sedans and high-powered but heavier coupes… the MINI just outperforms. It’s embarrassing fun.
CVT:
Most purists hate it.
I’ve fouund the cvt is quickler off the line than the manual five speed. I’ve driven in flatlands and mountains(tetons) and had plenty of power for anything i need. which includes a trailer. Further, it can’t be beat in big city rush hour stop and go’s.
far too many problems with that bouncy tranny. uh uh.
wise move, mini.
I agree with JAG. I drove two CVTs but now have reverted to manual. The rubber band effect just like my Yamaha Jog scooter became annoying and averaged around 9.6 litre per 100 kms – nearly as much as a BMW 3 series. Old Mini had a great 4-speed AP auto that you could shift in 4 gears as well as D. I’m glad they are reverting back to that system.
There’s something about changing gears when you want – not the auto’s brain! especially with adaptive transmissions.
“However, the first mod I’d be looking for if I had one of these new motors would be an always-on water pump. I don’t trust the car to turn it on and off for me.”
I’m not sure this is a good idea. I’ll bet the main reason for the water pump change is to reduce cold-running emissions. The faster the engine gets to full operating temperature, the better. ECU’s have ben controlling fuel systems for years now, I don’t see why controlling the water pump would be any different.
I love my CVT, but admit it is a bit slow off the line and not smooth at low speeds when cold, but once warmed up mine is fine. The jury’s still out on their reliability, as some have had serious problems. This seems to be a throwaway transmission, because if you have a problem the dealer just replaces the whole transmission. Very strange. I wonder why they can’t be worked on.
I just hope that if I keep mine a long time, then I have a problem with the CVT transmission, that another CVT transmission is still available, so I can pop it in and keep going. If it turns out that some are real reliable, then this may be a non-issue.
Darn, first you told me Go Mini Mag was being dumped
and now it’s gone
Now you tell me my CVT is being dumped
it ain’t fair