Auto Express got behind the wheel of the new JCW Cooper S automatic recently and came away less than impressed. Here’s an excerpt:
>Under the bonnet is the manual car’s 1.6-litre engine. Although it features an uprated supercharger, performance air filter and modified head, the auto’s torque converter drops output by 7bhp to 203bhp. And unlike VW’s DSG, the MINI’s conventional six-speed auto not only drains power, but is slow to change gear, too.
>So while the 0-62mph sprint takes 7.3 seconds (against the manual’s 6.6), the lethargic box masks the beefy engine’s considerable verve. Despite having Adaptive Transmission Control, which adjusts to your driver style over time, response never feels sharp.
AE doens’t pull any punches with their conclusion as well. You can read the full article here:
[ MINI Cooper S Works Auto ] Auto Express
And for the record we’ve officially given up hope of MINI USA ever offering the MCSa JCW kit in the US market.
If you want to enjoy the power, buy a MANUAL plain and Simple…… Asking an Automatic to feel like a manual is like asking a woman to act like a man.
Let’s stop the stick superiority complex.
MC, MCa, MCS, MCSa, MCc, MCca, MCSc, or MCSca it’s still all MINI and we all have our reasons for picking the type and spec that we did. It’s all good.
i think the real news here is the sad feeling of the works kit never showing up for the mcsa in the usa. i’ve been on the case for this thing since the day i got my car last march, and it’s just not happening….yet.
fingers eternally crossed – drew
I think that what the MCS needs is a DSG-like transmission. The Golf 5 GTI DSG is amazing to drive, and something like that in a MCS would be amazing.
Yet another reason why BMW/MINI should NEVER have offered a slush box on the taught handling MCS.
Let ‘um learn to drive a stick. Both of my kids learned to drive sticks and will never go back. My daughter even lives in the hills of San Francisco and still likes her manual Jetta.
motorer, bilbo…. save it.
It is not so much about auto versus manual, but on the purpose of an automatic and the one that Mini picked. We have things like rain sensing wipers, but they can’t put a nice DSG or SMG in it. That would have allowed a performance package to take advantage of the hardware. You don’t buy an auto to compete with a manual. It will never do it. So while it doesn’t perform as good as the manual in the review, that is more a reflection on the nature of the auto and the one that Mini chose.
There you go. That’s a great analysis of the situation.
Bilbo,
I agree. you raised your kids well.
(Grumble)
Again with the auto-hate. Why? No one is taking your manual from you….why impose your beliefs on them?
Did you ever stop & think about the folks who physically CAN NOT drive a manual due to an injury? Even though they KNOW HOW TO and would PREFER to drive manual? Maybe should we just ship those lazy POS’s off to SUV land where they belong, right?
I try to let it go, but this one REALLY hits a nerve with me. I love the debate to if this ‘box is the right one for the auto S…maybe there is a better one, maybe we will see it on the R56. But please stop the sheer ignorance….it doesn’t look good on anyone…
(puts soap box away until the next time this comes up)
Funny that they’d offer the auto JCW option overseas where they are less prevalent, rather than in the US where automatics are pretty much ubiquitous…
amen fishbulb.
I have not yet driven the MCSa but I am looking forward to try it out sometime. As a current owner of a ’05 MCS 6MT and a ’02 Cooper CVT I enjoy both transmission types tremendously. I also don’t get the “automatic” hatred so rampant in these internet car forums. Who cares if your daughter drives manages successful uphill launches in the streets of San Francisco? Are you looking for an applause? Have you tried doing it in the equally steep or even more steep hilly streets of Bogota-Colombia with 2 big ass public transport buses touching your bumpers? I did in a ’76 Renault 4TL 4-speed manual with a 850cc 4 cylinder engine and max output of 45HP!! That was some daily test of clutch skills and nerves!!
The “stick” superiority complex of some folks here makes me PUKE including the so called “Enthusiast” magazines. Who cares!!!!
I love both manuals and autos and that doesn’t make me less of a driver or an enthusiast.
Sick and tired of all the closet car racers!
I don’t think anybody here is putting the automatic down for any other reason than it does not perform as well as a manual from a strictly performance perspective. Manuals perform better in the MINI than automatics, which is a fact that no one can deny. Heck, just look at the numbers.
preach on frank! ; )
seariously everyone – this has been beaten to death – let’s try to act like mini people should and play nice.
now BACK TO TOPIC: i for one find the auto express review completely WRONG in the fact that it bashes the tranny paddle placement (amongst other things). of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but for the life of me, can someone here honestly say the paddles are small and awkwardly positioned? i’d love to hear what the reviewer thinks about how they should have been implemented. hell that’s one of the coolest things i love about the mcsa…if not THE coolest! i’m also wary of the review in that the reviewer never mentions shifting manually which, to me, is the whole point of the car! the paddles make it a living, breathing video game – so to speak. i wouldn’t doubt that testing the car in D or even SD would be underwhelming compared to shifting yourself.
anyone?
Every day I’m just so sad to have to not shift gears in GBMINI#3 … the messages here have made me see the light – why did I ever switch from a manual …
😉
🙁
Gabe,
Do you have real info to back up your comment about not seeing the JCW MCSa? Or just smart interpretation?
I can’t understand why people are always expecting an automatic to be performant? I think people should just accept that their is a price you pay for automatic, you get convenience and lose some of the speed. If that is ok for you then I don’t see what the problem is. Personally I only want to own a manual regardless of what type of car that I have, but I know that if I were buying a mini for my wife, we would get her an automatic. She doesn’t care about performance of the car, and likes the car for its looks. She doesn’t want the hassle of the manual. For me, I want the performance, and as someone who really enjoys driving, the manual enhances the experience. So I think the automatic people shouldn’t get so testy, drive what you want, but don’t complain, that it isn’t as fast as a manual. It is the price you pay for convenience. Plus with the shift paddles you do get to enjoy some of the fun of the manual.
No new info… just tired of wondering when. Knowing that all known obstacles have been overcome yet it’s still not out doesn’t seem like a good sign for auto owners.
actually gabe, as of my last inquiry i was told that they were still tweakimng the emisisons to become compliant thought 2010 or something like that…does that sound like anything you’ve heard?
just today i was at service for a rattle and to have my tires rotated and was told by my very relaible sources that “mini has gone silent on the issue…”
Just drove the Audi A3 2.0t with DSG this past weekend, not much can be gleaned in a 20 minute test drive, but it seems to be a pretty nice compromise. Personally, I prefer a full manual because of the sense of ‘intimacy’ with the mechanical bits (and also the challenge of heel/toeing, matching revs, etc.), but the technical virtuosity of this tranny is pretty impressive.
It shifts very smoothly, for the most part (odd things like accelerating hard then getting out of the throttle just as it is about to shift do result in some funky stuff, but that’s true of all automatics), and the paddles are quite responsive (and feel solid, too).
Having driven the Tiptronic several times, with its 1.5 second “I’m not sure you want to really switch gears oh ok I will” delay, it’s a revelation. I get the feeling, it’s something that you could explore for a while, though the auto mode was pretty good and would suffice for most day-to-day driving (it’s got that whole ‘fuzzy logic’ deal, too, so it is fairly intelligent even on back roads in auto mode).
None of that ‘rubber band’ type torque-converter dampened feel…not even a hint. Impressive. Not sure I’d want it in a Mini, but I do recognize the fact that there are people who just CAN’T have a manual…
I wonder how much that clutch pack costs to replace, though?
Os
drew – last I heard was “emisions work was still happening” … four months ago.
Os – I spent some quality time with a 2006 Golf GTI with DSG recently and I’ll be posting the review next week. I also found the DSG to be a revelation in terms of ease of use in both modes and truly the first mass audience acceptable auto-manual. Don’t be surprised if a Getrag/BMW version shows up in the MINI in the next four – five years.
“You don’t buy an auto to compete with a manual. It will never do it.”
…unless, of course, your name is Ferrari, McLaren, BMW-Sauber (a-hem), Riley, Panoz, Audi, Porsche, etc., etc.
Auto boxes CAN be made to be efficient, quick shifting, fun, etc. – witness all the commercial and sporting examples above – it’s just that BMW, et al. have chosen not to make such a beast available. Its too bad they aren’t installing a “sporting” auto box for those who, for whatever reason, must use an automatic. – they’re missing a level of fun that IS possible.
Although I have an MCSCa on order, I must admit that I am not sure I “get” the point of a JCW auto, either. But to each his own. My sense is that most S automatic owners aren’t hard-core performance people – rather we concluded that the Cooper CVT was too slow to mix it up with traffic had concerns about CVT reliability. But the JCW auto seems to have value for money issues that transcend the questions of philosophy.
Gregg – those examples aren’t toque converter automatics. Those are computer controlled manuals. About as far removed from the traditional automatic (as seen in the MCSa) as you can get.
I have driven an MCSa and I much prefer my MCS/JCW. I have a friend that had some skin cancer removed from her leg and swapped an ’04 MCS for an ’06 MCSa. We’re both happy with our cars.
As for automatics vs manuals, I prefer manuals regardless of the type of car, truck, or SUV. Always have, and always will if my health remains good. My preference for manuals severely limits my choices when I buy cars. There are a few people who agree with me left. Our fear is that manuals will go away. Look back to the Taurus SHO. When it came out, it was manual only. Soon thereafter, the automatic comes along. Not long after that, the manual goes away. Look at the Chrysler Crossfire. You can get the manual, but only if you don’t get the SRT-6 version. Look at the Lexus IS. You (in theory) can get a manual IS250, but not an IS300. None of the Chrysler SRT-8 cars have manuals. Even BMW has made the M5 SMG only. A true manual is in the works thanks to the bashing the magazines handed out.
If you love automatics, buy them and enjoy them. More power to you. I just want the CHOICE to have a true manual in my cars without having to give the “poverty version”.
Rawhyde
Oh my god. I’m speechless. Just speechless. Is this debate STILL going on?
I, too, share Rawhyde’s fear. Don’t take my Stick from me! You can have my stick when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
If you want an auto, more power to ya. I also will defend your right.
The thing that irritates me the most about the MF crowd is the Fascist “do it my way or I will impose my will on you, surely you must be stupid” way of doing things.
It kinda reminds me of the whole cell phone, eating, wearing your seatbelt or not, having sex while driving debate.(not all at once I hope, but if you did who am I to cast stones?)
Did I mention that I texted my last post through my cell phone while I was driving, eating and having sex? Thank goodness for automatics!
(at least I think I am funny, even if no one else does. That’s what matters)
If MINI USA doesn’t let you order a MCS auto then order a kit yourself from the UK or neighbouring country where they do. Someone will fit the kit for you in USA dealers or tuners.
The USA, like Japan, like the majority of their cars to be automatics. In some countries the manual is preferred.
It’s a well known fact that autos chew up more gas than manuals. It’s a premium auto owners must pay (even in fuel price hikes).
Seems the MINI USA people dictate what you guys can have or not have – vote with your wallets and go buy one in Canada!
After owning my 2005 MCSa for 10 months now and driving 9500 miles I can honestly say that I find the transmission extremely annoying. I’m to the point of considering selling it and ordering the exact same car but with the 6 speed. The auto is very jerky, not smooth. It shifts constantly at the wrong times, epsecially in “D” drive. It wants to run at 2000-2500 rpm all the time unless you put your foot into it and then you’ve got too much acceleration because it has jumped down two gears when I really only needed one. The other annoying characteristic is when the ACS comes on if you spin a wheel. When a wheel spins the ACS seems to let off the gas and add some brake but for some reason the transmission seems to upshift, don’t know why. So once the ACS lets go of the car your in the next gear up but bogged down so then the transmission upshifts. This makes for THE most herky-jerky botched accelerstion I have ever encountered. Compared to our 2004 MCS it can’t. I do love the heated seats though.
Weird, from reading that it doesn’t seem like they even have the same car as ours, could our early build somehow have better software for shifting or the break in help? – shouldn’t the JCW software make it better not worse? I wonder how much seat time the reviewer spent in the car and tried it all out?
We both drive in manual mode amost exclusively, even have DSC on (which from everything I have read from posts with people describing ASC seems to be less intrusive then that), and neither of us find it non-responsive as they describe or have weird boggy issues with traction control. There is a minor lag changing up gears but a little adjustment in when you shift is easy and becomes second nature and the car feels very lively, no worse then the 03 MCS. I’m not about to drop the clutch and manhandle manual to get maximum 0-60 as they do so those times are simply not real world numbers and a silly issue to me – the MCS is no supercar in any case.
Anyway, I am sorry to hear that JCW clearly did not do their homework and improve on the car in a meaningful way. Ironically, before I had the MCSa in hand I assumed that I would really want JCW or Dinan software to improve it and am happy to find that actually it doesn’t need it for throttle response or even the tiny lag – the sad part is that it does need it to allow the car to actually redline. Too bad the reviewer did not compare the car to the stock auto software, to let us know.
Lastly, I can’t help but notice that it feels like the reviewer has never tried out the tranny before. It seems strange, and would have been a much better service to readers to at least devote some time to comparing it to the regular MCSa and actually list out the differences between the two (what do you get ‘in the kit’, any specifics different for the auto, etc).
My MCS manual is in the shop right now and I got an MCSa to drive. This is the second time I’ve driven an MCS a and I have to say that it is not agreeable at all. The tranny upshifts at the oddest times. It seems that it will shift more frequently when accelerating quickly, not allowing me to wind it out, but will hold gears up to 3500 to 4000 rpm in first when accelerating slowly. What gives? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
Yes, it’s also jerky, the engine braking when slowing down is sometimes too much. Sometimes the engine won’t reach 6th gear while I’m cruising at 55 to 60. I find I have to use the paddle shifters to coax the engine into a less strenuous gear. Sometimes it will ignore me.
Either way, I love my manual. I can’t see anyone getting the MCSa unless there was an overwhelming reason for it, i.e. injury/handicap, determined wife ;).
While you have the auto do wring it out in manual mode, that is where it shines – similar to the SMGII I’ve driven, not great in auto mode but fun when shifting (although in the little I have used auto mode in the MCS it is better then the really jerky SMG auto). I guess what they had in mind with the tranny and paddles is that MINIs are meant to be engaged with not a silent luxury car with a silky smooth auto you never touch. As for benefits, I find the auto much nicer to live and park with on the congested hills of San Francisco while still being a very fun backroads car.
it’s alive…