The New York Times reports on the new MINI and all the challenges that come with it. Here’s an excerpt:
>Can the Mini Cooper keep its buzz going for a second generation? Everybody in the global car business is watching avidly to see if it can, for there are no guarantees.
>The history of the auto industry abounds with “cars of the moment” whose moment passed, notably Volkswagen’s New Beetle, to which the Mini is most frequently compared.
>…Now the task for the Mini’s corporate owner, BMW, is to prove that the Mini was not simply a car of the moment – albeit a moment that has gone on for five years now – and that it can still bring in new buyers as well as repeat customers.
A timely article that manages to only get a few facts wrong. You can read the rest below:
[ Can MINI Stay up to Speed? ] New York Times
Now let’s hear your thoughts. Can the MINI continue it’s success in both sales and brand strength?
Nice article but where can I buy the 2007’s that went on sale earlier this month? 😉
i think brand strength will be no problem with the new MINI style. sales will probably depend on if they can win over the R50/53 owners as i doubt that the new styling will effect the number of potential buyers at all. if anything the newer, more refined and comfortable interior will probably bring in more new folks…ones who might have thought the first gen. interior a bit too stark.
from all the first reviews it sounds as though the handling hasn’t changed with the R56s and the new engine should be fantastic. i’m sure the new generation MINI will be just as much fun to drive and that’s what sells the cars.
It is all about personalization right??? There is surely somehting to this but as we all know it is so much more than that. I still smile every time I see another MINI and still get giddy every time I get behind the wheel of my own 04 Cooper S, How many owners of other two year old cars get that feeling every morning???
TM
As far as MINI’s continuing success goes, as long as they don’t stray too far from the original concepts, and still accept input from the fanatical owner base, they shouldn’t go wrong. There should be plenty of room for different varients on the main MINI theme. Let’s just do a better job on the next update on the headlight design please…
The only way I see MINI having problems with the R56 is by not putting a tight grip on initial quality control. BMW is known for 1st year glitches and reliability issues and while I have no reason to believe the R56 upon introduction will be any different from any other introductory BMW product, BMW knows very well that they can’t afford a repeat of the ’02-’03 model years saga with ECU software problems, engine stalls and stumbles.
The MINI as a brand and a product has an incredible buzz. This is a car that was conceived right from the start and its sales success of the past 5 years goes to show that the MINI will never be a passing “fad” like cheapo copycats from the competition, namely the VW New Beetle and DCX PT Cruisers, cars that are all about ‘show’ but no ‘go’ and have since fallen in the depths of irrelevance and hum-drum.
So, as long as MINI keeps its act together with the 1st and 2nd year quality control of the R56 MINI, I forsee no problems for the marque in the next 5 years and beyond.
don’t let it become a chick car.
It is a chick car already 😉
Hey, that’s me in the interview! (Pats myself on shoulder, basking in my 1 microsecond of the spotlight)…
Service will have a lot to do with continued owner satisfaction. As long as the buyers believe that the dealer service will take care of glitches, the loyalty may remain.
If minor build problems are dismissed as unimportant by dealer service departments it will be hard to sell the new technology.
It’s been around 5 years since the car debuted and it still turns heads. The design is timeless and the brand image still creates a sense of mystery in the eyes on non-owners. This is not the case for any of the copycats.
MINI made the most of the Internet possibilities, and showed word-of-mouth trumps big ad bucks if you play your cards right, so as long as they keep the “exclusive” factor an intangible, those interested will stay interested. The other factor they left out is the the fact that MINI backs up the hype – Scion is a poor comparison IMHO, as it is strictly a looks car with no real performance results to trumpet. The MINI walks the walk, and is continuing the marques history on the track; heck, even on the drag-strip – hardly a chick car. The R56 has the same all-around potential just like R50/R53, and I expect it will deliver on the promises.
BCNU,
Rob in dago
<blockquote>…even though it is too small to hold his children or much more than a doctor’s satchel</blockquote>
Has the writer ever even sat in a MINI? If so he would know that they fit a LOT more than a doctor’s satchel!
I can’t begin to count the # of times I’ve taken my MINI to Costco with both my wife and Daughter and we hauled a veritable $%^&!-load of stuff home in it!
I have issues with writers that make common assumptions like “it’s a small car, so it must not be able to haul much”.
Oh well.
Rich.
Keep the MINI in the next “Italian Job” movie and I think it will keep up the MINI’s star power.
But seriously, MINI is its own brand, like the Saturn, and the Acura, cars that created its own following and customer base through either great customer satisfaction or great quality cars along with dedication by its parent company to keep their own identity, put all these traits together, and I believe there will be great longevity for the MINI appeal.
It would take a monumental disaster in terms of quality, engineering and/or customer satisfaction to bring down the MINI brand from its own privieleged place in the automotive landscape.
The R56 has HUGE shoes to fill and BMW is once again betting against all odds for the new car to continue on the success of its 2 predecessors (The classic Issigonis MINI and Stephenson’s R/50/53).
This is the New York Times. Does anyone take them seriously? Doom and Gloom.
<blockquote>even though it is too small to hold his children or much more than a doctor’s satchel</blockquote>
Yeah, I didn’t quite say it that way in the article–I did say I only put the kids in the back in an emergency; it’s not a great family car (ducks the flying debris hurled at my head), I don’t use it for that–but it can haul quite a bit stuff, especially with the seats down–which is why it’s my everday driver, because I can haul 90% of the stuff I need in it, and use my SUV for the rest. But this didn’t really come out when we were talking, or perhaps it came out wrong.
The reporter (it’s the contributor mentioned at the end) is really a good guy, and he owns a mini and is a big time mini enthusiast himself.
I agree that one of the factors will be how current MINI owners view the next Gen. A lot of ’02, ’03, and ‘4 owners could be ready to trade-in/up to the new Gen cars. One problem I’m seeing starting to surface, with our local MINI owners club members, and MINI-owning friends, is that the Dealers are turning away that business already by seriously low-balling MINI trade-in offers. Yes I know, dealers will always be the last resort/lowest price you will get, and they need to make a buck – but to tell potential returning/loyal customers that your MINI trade is not even worth close to their own auto industry published trade-in price-guide prices is not going bring back a lot of repeat business. Several of our local MINI club members looking to buy the last of the ’06 JCWs opted out of the MINI family when they looked at what MINI dealers were offering vs other dealers, such as Audi, VW, etc. They loved their MINIs, but a $26K MINI new that is worth only $12K two yrs later to a MINI dealer, but $18K to an Audi or VW dealer is hard to swallow.
The New York Times is not even worthy of lining my bird cage with. Who cares what they think. Stick to the dedicated auto journals for legitmate opinion.
My last post was deleted…?
I see it now. Ignore my last post.
Minijcwgp, why is it that a lot of MINI owners have this erroneous idea ingrained into their heads, that MINI dealerships MUST buy their used cars back at FULL RETAIL???
That is balooney and non-sense.
Trade-in is simply a very expensive ‘convenience’ to get rid of an unwanted car. Pure and simple. Dealers make the bulk of their profits buying and selling used cars. Let’s say today you buy a new MINI for $25K and 2 years later the dealer gives you $14K for it, basically the dealer is offering you the lowest offer possible in order to MAXIMIZE their profit margins when they turn around and re-sell the car. The dealer figures they can re-sale it for $18K out in the lot, so that translates into immediate $4K in their pockets!
If you intend to sell your used MINI and obtain the maximum return in terms of resale value, you have no other choice BUT TO SELL THE CAR YOURSELF PRIVATELY. A lot of people CRINGE at the idea of selling their own cars privately and I don’t understand why (Yes it takes money, time, effort and patience for sure).
But when people act like crybabies because the dealer is not buying back their used MINI at full retail I have no choice but to laugh my ass of at them.
Actually, the NYT is a Paper of Record, so, yeah, what they print is influential and broadly read, even by some pretty intelligent boids. 😉 They have been in the MINI camp from the beginning, and this article is a positive outlook, rather than a negative assessment. In the age of Every Lede Is An AP Wire Story, it’s nice to read some independent output from a general news rag that actually puts in some effort to write asking a very good question – The second act is usually very hard to get right: MINI, Quo Vadis?
BCNU,
Rob in Dago
P.S. – nice job, cctl, your 15 minutes are never gone, thanks to the WWW. 😉
<blockquote>Let’s say today you buy a new MINI for $25K and 2 years later the dealer gives you $14K for it, basically the dealer is offering you the lowest offer possible in order to MAXIMIZE their profit margins when they turn around and re-sell the car. The dealer figures they can re-sale it for $18K out in the lot, so that translates into immediate $4K in their pockets!</blockquote>
I’ve never seen a 2 year old MINI on a dealer lot that isn’t selling for as much or <em>more</em> than a new MINI with the same options. I’m in a mid-size city without a MINI dealership, so I’m sure that has a significant effect on used MINI prices, but if I found an ’04 Cooper S that was 25k off the lot selling for 18k, I’d have a MINI by now. 😀
On topic: I think the improved fuel efficiency of both the Cooper and Cooper S is going to help maintain the high demand for MINIs in the states. Fuel efficiency has finally become a factor in car sales as more and more trucks and SUVs sit on dealer lots gathering dust while I watch the resale value on my ’00 Saturn SL1 go up and up and up. Throw in the already acclaimed customization options of the car and lots of new gadgets in the R56, and MINI will continue to be a high demand brand.
I agree with the other postings that don’t like the comparison to scion. The scion in my opinion is just basically a toy. No performance. Just show no go. Also the scion is not a ‘premium’ compact car like the mini is. The scion definitely is going for a lower income crowd that values looks over substance. The mini has looks and also has substance. That’s the difference. I’ve never driven a scion or wanted to, but on paper those cars look lackluster at best.
Also MINI needs to keep a watchful eye in terms of the competition. Audi, Volvo, VW et al are all planning to launch “MINI fighter” models that will carve into MINI’s current semi-niche market segment. This is why I think it is crucial for MINI to expand their offerings beyond a 3-door hatchback and a convertible. Also technologies as AWD, clutchless manumatic transmissions and better quality interiors will definetely be needed to keep the car as the “cool” alternative to fresh but albeit more “reserved” future offerings in its turf.
Brendan, I too have never seen a 2 year old MINI (MCS) selling below $20K in the used car market. I was just illustrating a quick example and driving my point home in regards to the unrealistic expectation of some current MINI owners to get practically every penny back paid for the vehicle at trade-in time and how this is so unfair and blah, blah ,blah.
Again the only way to fetch retail used values (Or at least very close to) is to sell the vehicle yourself and this implies money spent on ads, taking phone calls, go to annoying test driving sessions and set aside valuable time in the weekends for test drive appointments.
I think a lot of people feel very intimidated by the whole process of selling a car privately, thus opt to go the “easy” (albeit expensive way) to trade-in a vehicle into the dealership at a substantial loss.
I think you meant to reply to eto… I made the scion bashing comment. 😀
Hey Frankin & eto saying nothing of the sort. Free enterprise and all that. Have sold my last two cars myself. Don’t expect anything special from a car dealer, they are all just South of honest. Just stating some facts. Car dealers use a pricing system/guide to value cars they take in on trade. Some use Kelly Blue Book, most use the NAA Black Book, and there is a Yellow Book, and a few other. The book lists a prices for a particular year/model of car, by region: Dealer retail (used), and Dealer wholesale – what you can expect a dealer to “buy” it for (trade-in). A lot of MINI owners are finding that, as a friend did for example, his car new was $26K. Currently Kelly shows Dealer Retial at $22K (what the dealer will sell that car at on his used car lot) and Dealer Wholesale of $18K, (what the dealer should buy the car at). $23K – $18K = $5K profit, or 20%. Not bad. Except the dealer actually only offers $12K, still expecting to put the car for sale on his lot at $23K (almost 50% profit seems a little excessive). Just is odd to me that the same car a MINI dealer refuses to pay Dealer wholesale for, using their own price guide system (they pay a subscription fee to use it), the Audi, VW dealer, and most other dealers are. Seems not to be encouraging repeat customers.
<blockquote>Just is odd to me that the same car a MINI dealer refuses to pay Dealer wholesale for, using their own price guide system (they pay a subscription fee to use it), the Audi, VW dealer, and most other dealers are. Seems not to be encouraging repeat customers.</blockquote>
minijcwgp, I agree with your comment about MINI dealers not treating repeat customers properly. They should be making the extra effort to entice their return customers and low-balling the trade-in value is not going to be anything of an incentive. If anything, there should be some sort of bonus for being a return customer. Maybe a free JCW upgrade. 😉
Remember that if a dealer gives you more for your trade-in, they are most certainly “padding” the deal elsewhere be it on the new car, accessories, financing, etc.
If the MINI dealer gives you $14K on a trade for your used MCS and the Audi dealer gives you $18K, rest assured the Audi dealer is jacking up the price of the new car for the difference.
Dealers are businesses at the end of the day and they want to maximize their profits on every trade-in. Is that ethically correct? yes and no..
<blockquote>Remember that if a dealer gives you more for your trade-in, they are most certainly “padding†the deal elsewhere be it on the new car, accessories, financing, etc.</blockquote>
Odd .. the rest of the above message is:
Totally agree Franklin, it’s all a shell game, for the astute player. 🙂
My bud, offered $12K trade on his S, toward an ’06 JCW spec’d out at $32K before Dealer Delivery charges.
Was offered $18K for his S trade in, on a new Audi TT, retail list $34K, his price $32K, with free upgraded sound system, and lower financing than BMW offered on the MINI.
ps. just talked to my bud…. he said if you can find $6K of padding on his new Audi TT deal (diff between what Mini offered and what he got at Audi), he will eat the car, video tape himself doing it, and put the video on youtube!
The above is why you never should negotiate your trade in and your new car together–I have no idea why people still do this. Negotiate the new car first, don’t even mention trade in until after you’ve gotten the lowest price on your new car. Then negotiate the trade in.
It’s the only way to comparison shop–get your best deal on your new car, then see what your trade in is–if the salesman asks you upfront on wether you’re trading in, just tell them you’re thinking about it, but politely tell them you want to negotiate the price on the new car first. If the salesman gives you grief, walk. Some will, but most won’t, and will work with you this way. Get your research down on what the dealers are paying for the car, any holdbacks and dealer incentives, and go from there. It’s senseless to try to negotiate a new car and a trade in as one deal–they are two seperate transactions; the dealer may make one look better by screwing you on the other. The only way to determine how good of a deal you’re getting on both is to take them seperately, and it makes more sense to shop the new car first before considering the trade in. It’s the only way you can reliably comparison shop.
You may find out it might also be worth enough to sell your car on your own, depending on what the trade in is, but you’re best off finding the lowest price you can get the new car for, then going from there.
minijcwgp, tell your buddy that I am anxiously waiting for that video of him eating his TT for lunch. Also tell him to put some “kraut” on it for better taste.
Relax everybody…the old Classic Mini lasted from 1959 until 2000. Even against very stiff and improved competition. You buy a Mini because you want one, not because you can’t or can afford another make car. If the USA can sell 3 million Ford F Pickup trucks a year surely a few more Minis can be sold.
Hey Franklin… my Bud said if you supply the kraut, he will, but your end of the deal first – where’s the $6K padding? 🙂
I respect your opinions but I don’t like the dealer bashing. That’s what this has turned into. I as a motoring advisor always looks to do the best for the customer amd try to meet or exceed their expectations. Everyone is different though. I don’t know where you all are from but I know here in the northeast I haven’t had a customer yet who has been unhappy with the trade numbers on MINI’s from where I work. It’s all about the approach the dealer takes. Some dealers purposely try to make it sound like you commiting a sin trying to trade in a vehicle. That’s a shame. It doesn’t mean everyone is like that. Maybe that’s why we do so well with our Pre- Loved MINI fleet and ultimately everyone is happy!
>It is a chick car already 😉
This is not reflected in MINI’s owner statistics so I’m not sure where you got that.
Gabe, tongue in cheek 😉
I got called for the article too, but I wasn’t home at the time. By the time I returned the message it was too late. But I don’t have a doctor’s satchel so I may not have been quote-worthy anyway. I have had the car 7 months and I don’t even have 3000 miles yet since I take the subway to work…
He Mark:
Good to hear that your dealership values its repeat customers. MINI should be holding up dealers like yours as examples of how to keep MINI the hot kid on the automotive block, and how to do business. I went with my Bud when he got his Audi TT, and the Audi sales guy could not fathom the treatment my Bud got as a potential repeat customer at his local MINI dealer. The Audi guy said that his repeat customers are his main income, and in fact said his dealership makes 70% to 80% of its income on repeat business. He put it this way – for every customer he gets and keeps happy, that customer will more than likely purchase another car from him in 2-3 yrs. That equals about 4 sale (trade plus new) per customer over 5 yrs. That happy customer also usually recommends/brings in at least two more customers – so that’s 8 more sales over 5 yrs attributed back to that one new customer, not counting those recommended customrs bring in 2 more and their recommendations bringing in 2 more and so on. So for the Audi guy, one happy, repeat customer over 5 yrs = 12 sales minimum from him and his friends. The Audi guy also said low ball offers like my Bud got for his trade at the MINI dealer likely get turned down 8 out of 10 times, and have the (pissed-off) customer walk, and never come back to that dealership. So for the 20% chance of making a quick $6K, that MINI dealer lost a much more likely potential income-stream from at least 12-plus sales. Wow! Mark, good to see your MINI dealership is as smart as our local Audi shop.
Thank you. There’s only one right way to do business and if you don’t have customers or assume they’re going to by a car just because the name MINI is on your door those dealers are highly mistaken!
IMHO, if the MINI plans on the same longevity as the Mini had they will need to maintain the vehicle as unchanged as the laws allow. It can not suffer the incremental growth so common to all other vehicles.
Look at the size of the 2002ti BMW from the 60s, the original 3 series car, and compare that to the current 3 series. Even the current 3 series is as large as an original 5 series. You see this incremental growth amoung all auto manufacturers. Just check out the current Civic, Carolla, Accord, etc. and compare them to the first of their model years.
Some nod will have to be given to environmental issues and reduced emissions. I can see that preformance will need to undergo some inprovement over the years, not major changes but some tweaking. But the basic platform needs to remain the same, the basic exterior need to remain clearly identifiable with the 1959 design for the MINI to remain a strong contender.
As long as they don’t make any more blunders like the new center stack they should be all right. Useing the resources of the internet and the avid owners that are here they should be able to maintain a strong base of repeat customers and still attract young customers. Afterall, it is well known that the first car one buys is most likely to be the brand that you will continue to favor throughout your life.
Good luck BMW/MINI. Don’t blow it.
A question for TSizemore 3 : do you build already the trailer for your New Mini Cooper ?
Miss Veerle