Road and Track does what seems to be the hot comparison testing these days. They pit the MINI against the Volkswagen GTI, Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, Honda Civic SI Sedan and the Mazdaspeed3.
>Yet all of our contestants worked far better than physics might dictate, as we found in an 800-mile odyssey that took us from our Newport Beach offices up Interstate 5; over California’s ultra-curvy Highway 58 connecting Buttonwillow and Santa Maria; past green, bovine-encrusted foothills inland of Atascadero; and on to Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca near Monterey, where Mother Nature arranged both wet and dry lapping sessions on the same day.
Surprisingly, the MINI didn’t fare as well as one would expect, scoring 4th behind the GTI, Mazdaspeed3 and Civic. While is scored highest in handling and gas mileage, the reviewer was less than thrilled with the MINI overall.
>Quirky in its execution, the Mini may be a little too clever for its own good. Ergonomics? Wonky, as style steps on function. But when it comes to driving dynamics, it’s very difficult to find fault.
Full review, with videos of each car, below.
[ League of Extraordinary Pocket Rockets ] RoadandTrack.com
Since I tested an identical car for a week, let me know that it probably wasn’t the ideal MINI for this test. For one it was inflicted with all-season tires. Secondly it had niether the sport suspension or LSD – to essential options for someone who drives the car aggressively.
In spite of Gabe’s remarks, I’m wondering if we’re seeing a trend here. Two recent articles by well-respected publications have not been too kind to the R56. I’m guessing that the competition has caught up.
To be honest, I was hoping for a bit more from the new MINI. As I’m in the process of finding a replacement for my ’03 MCS, I need to ponder my options. When I bought my ’03, neither the GTI nor the MazdaSpeed 3 were available. I wish the R56 had pumped up the power a bit more to make it more attractive. I guess I’ll have to wait to see what happens with the JCW version.
Better tires, sport suspension, LSD? It already bested the other cars in handling – these options are not the problem. The Mini is not a mainstream car, never has been, and its never going to please everybody in this kind of review. Lets head off the R56 grumps at the pass here. I don’t want to hear from the same people that whined that the R56 was going mainstream and loosing the R53’s edge, that now R56 is not mainstream enough and should have placed better in these magazine reviews. If this stuff matters to you, go on, by all means, buy yourself a Mazda…
Yes, I have noticed the same trend too. The R56, while a very good package, it is suffering at the hands of the competition who has gotten a better understanding and grasp of the hot hatch market.
I think MINI needs to do a number of things in order to fend off the fierce competition in this segment. First, every MCS needs to be equipped with the Sports Suspension Plus as standard factory equipment (Like it was in the R53 era), lower the ride height of the car, make 17″ tires and rims also standard equipment and get rid of of the gimmickry “Sports Button”which is nothing more than a marketing driven feature (It should be ON by default).
I believe the R56 offers much potential in terms of sheer performance and handling prowess but as -is today, the car does not offer anything new or truly innovative to the table. Certain design and manfacturing decisions made by BMW with respect to the new MINI have simply allowed the gap to be closed even further by the competition.
In my mind there are other problems that need to be addressed. First, the R56 is becoming a very expensive MINI, in despite of it being cheaper to manufacture (And some of the cost cutting that you can see in certain areas of the car). MINI must lower the price of the vehicle to make it attractive against such heavy weights as the MazdaSpeed3 and the VW GTI. Second, MINI must release a full blown, factory installed JCW MCS. I am talking about a 230HP+ car, not a “stage I”or “Stage II” dealer bolt ons. If MINI claims the PSA engines are performance powerhouses, then this fact needs to be demonstrated to the public.
Again, I really like the R56 and can see myself driving one in the future, but the car does not offer enough “pizzaz” to make me switch from my more visceral feeling R53.
<blockquote>Quirky in its execution, the Mini may be a little too clever for its own good. Ergonomics? Wonky, as style steps on function.</blockquote>
This is another common observation amongst some of the recent reviewers. The WSJ said: <blockquote>If there was one area of the old Mini in which BMW had room for improvement, it was this center console. If there is one area in which MBW has made the new Mini worse, this is it.</blockquote>
I only harp on it because I <em>want</em> to love the R56, I really do. I just hope that MINI takes a step back during the mid-model refreshes and addresses some of the interior design choices – bring function back to the forefront. Because as it is now, I detest those bits of the interior enough to keep me away from the car altogether, and I hate that. Great design really drew me to the R53, so hopefully these handful of details will evolve into something great again down the road. I <em>want</em> to tell people to go check out the new MINI when they ask me about my MCS at the gas station. And I do, just not with the same enthusiasm. Okay, off my soap box then.
-NS in MN
Lavardera. I agree with Gabe here. The car needs LSD, SS+ suspension and decent rubber to put all that power down to the asphalt, with the prowess and finesse for which MINIs are known to do it.
I agree with you on that the MINI will never be a mainstream car. But the “Cutesy”if you will aspect that made MINI such a revolutionary and trend setting car 5 years has been played out. People now days are more than willing to overlook the coolness and solid resale value of the MINI for market entries which are perceived as to offer better value for the dollar, more performance and similar fun driving experience. MINI has a tremendous advantage in terms of customer following and brand pedigree. But the thing is… the current market is even tighter and more competitive than it was 5 years ago. Think about it, back in 2002, how many cars in the US market offered the looks, quality, performance and driving fun afforded by the MINI? Not very many. They basically created this segment and in order to maintain their status they need to keep 2 steaps ahead of the game. The “MINI”name along is not going to keep them afloat long term.
While I probably will never buy a MazdaSpeed3 or a VW GTI, those cars are tempting because each offer something new to the table for a very reasonable price. I just don’t see the same coming from the R56.
Guys, read the article before you decide.
Their numbers were skewed. For example, the MINI scored among the lowest in visual design–worse than the GTI! I’ve always felt the MINI was the best designed sheet-metal. At least it has personality and heritage.
R&T was looking for the best “daily-driver” pocket-rocket, if there is such a thing. The Mazda3 scored high because it had a larger back seat. (Yawn.) And R&T was apparently willing to overlook the terrible turbo-lag of the Mazda3 in 1st and 2nd gear. (It doesn’t have a twin-scroll turbo like the MINI.)
Yes, MINI will always be expensive. BMW has never backed down on that. Part of what makes MINI exclusive, unfortunately…
Power wasn’t the problem. (MINI scored .1 seconds behind 2nd place GTI in acceleration.) Handling wasn’t the problem. (The MINI won.) R&T wanted a more normal interior and exterior design. They didn’t appear comfortable sitting in a MINI.
Ottoman, the ranking was not about the handling. The Mini stands up to these other cars in its base fittings. With sport suspension, LSD, 18″ tires it would outhandled them by a greater margin and still come in 4th.
I think the point is if Mini USA wants to send cars out to magazines they have to decide how the press cars will be optioned. That’s the issue here, not making these options standard.
It so happens that R&T had the very same car that Gabe drove on the Dragon. Would it have served Mini to have both these reviewers get a car with better tires, stiffer suspension bits? Probably. But if the car was going to Consumer Reports it probably would have been marked down for rough ride, and summer tires. So what you are really asking for is for Mini to be more thoughtful about what they lend out. If Mini was going to put any stock in these reviews then that is just what they would do, but apparently they don’t value these reviews very much.
Frankly neither do I.
Having owned a 02 Copper, an 04 Cooper S and a 05 Cooper S automatic (still have the 04 MCS, I find my MAZDASPEED 3 (owned since Nov.) the best car I’ve owned. It is far more fun to drive. You get drunk on power. It will push you back in the seat going from 65-100 in fourth gear. It will easlily leave our MINI behind around any corner and it actuall gets slightly better milage than the 04 MCS. I’ve test driven a R56 just for fun and although it is a great car it can’t compare to the MS3.
I’m also still really bummed out about all the styling changes. I loved the first new MINI and now everything is just way out of scale. I would agree the aR53 is a far better styling exercise than the Mazda but the new R56 falls short, a step in the wrong direction. That speedo is just awful. It’s huge and there is nothing in it. What happened to the MPH/KPH and the fuel and temp guages. The exterior now has too many gaps and aren’t perfomance cars supposed to get lower? Why is the new MINI higher with awkward looking too-small wheels.
The Mazda drive more like a real performance car and yes it can be a little unsophisticated but it is really fun to give guys in there Porsches a run for thier money. They are expecting it
There you go Ottoman – there is a happy Mazda3 owner. Run, don’t walk, to your Mazda dealer and get your own. I have a Mazda3 and its a great wagon. I love it.
But remember, Mazda has shot its wad on the 3 here. It doesn’t get any better than this. Mini hasn’t even started with the R56 yet. Count on having your 3 handed to you some day.
Darwin would love automakers. As the trend to survive now finally follows the price of fuel – see the failures and indeed, the near-fatal hemorrhaging that has led to today’s sale of one of the ex-Big Three and the imminence of the same for the other two, who have learned nothing and forgotten nothing like empty-headed suits of armor on their way to disaster in a new kind of Agincourt – MINI has to be aware that this segment will explode and they better be ready when price point becomes the absolute determining factor. Every joe on the street will have bigger HP options, and Mazda shoehorning in an up-model engine is the route most makers will follow is my guess, so regardless of loud-pedal lag or cheesiness of the interior or lack of pedigree, this segment will only get harder to sell a perceived weaker car, whether or not that’s an actuality. The big wave is gonna hit, and MINI better get off the dime. More power! More goodies! More of just about everything! (Except that center stack, mind you.)
BCNU,
Rob in Dago
Still have to say one thing, who cares if the Mini is the fastest, baddest car on the block, the fact is there is always another car out there that can know that crown off your head. The fact is that while the Mazda Speed 3 is a decent car, I would rather cut off my arm than drive ANY four door car lol. it’t the same reason why I have never admired the WRX and Impreza, adding back doors on a small car normally leaves it looking like anyone of a thousand prior boxes. imo
Although the current MINI gets lumped into these hot hatch comparisions, it is really in a different category from the others in the marketplace (buyers who are willing to give up some practicality). When the Clubman comes out, it will be the more direct apples-to-apples comparison for buyers, and it will face stiff competition from GTI, Civic, and Mazda.
Regarding the price, the MINI was $3k under the Mazda and $6k under the VW. It came in right in line with the Nissay (yawn!) and next to the Civic.
While still driving a R53 2006, I do have a question about that MAzDa spd3, does it ride better than lets say a R53?….and still maintaining the fun factor in it?….hopefully so…more so that I might trade in my current mini just for a normal tires setup…without the awful ride of the run-flats…..
smiling….dreaming….
happy motoring….
Sadly, with performance now being somewhat equal, the only factor left is styling. MINI leveraged the retro-thing for five years, but when time came to re-design, they didn’t. The exterior is cute, fun and fairly timeless, but the interior has never been well received, especially now. Given the chance to fix the Romper-Room, child’s toy interior with a more modern, classically-inspired design, they took the opposite tack and plummeted downhill to their doom. What the rationale behind this re-design is, I’m at a loss to, but it’s bad enough to sway the press in a very negative way. I hope they re-think the their timetable on the re-fresh and get someone else to start looking in a new direction…soon. This review is only the begining, check out the new Volvo C30 which has already killed the MINI in european reviews.
Oh Gee! I guess the MINI has had it’s day. The fact that the R56 is far superior to the R53 does not matter. The fact that April sales are up over 19% does not matter. The only thing that matters is the whiners that don’t like the new interior. Hmmm.. I like it just fine, and I have put my money where my mouth is, and I would not go back to my 2005 R53.
>Oh Gee! I guess the MINI has had it’s day. The fact that the R56 is far superior to the R53 does not matter. The fact that April sales are up over 19% does not matter.
I could not have said it better. First off the MINI doesn’t compare to these cars well because they aren’t really in the same class. Secondly the MINI coupe is a niche vehicle that simply didn’t fare well against the these cars considering what they were ultimately judged for. The R53 suffered the same fate in many reviews over the years. At the end of the day the R56 is a vastly superior car to the one it replaced based on my multiple experiences. …You’ll read more about that later this week.
The MazdaSpeed 3 is a fun car that (for this automotive enthusiast) is flawed by inherent torque steer and excessive weight – <b>500lbs of it over the MCS</b>. You do not get the same Go-Kart feel you do while driving the MINI. You do not get the same point and shooot accuracy either. However it is a great choice for many people out there – I’ve recommended it and probably sold at least two to friends recently. However it’s simply not comparable to the current MINI coupe. It’s not even apples and orange – more like apples and papayas. Saying that you’re selling MINI for something like the Mazda probably says more about what you need in a car rather than the failures of the MINI.
It’s simple. Nothing compares to a Mini. It’s singular and unique. Not everybody “gets it” and that’s what makes it and US special. Do you think people in Mazdas wave as they drive by? Do hundreds of VWs,Hondas, or any car for that matter meet at the Dragon or in Vegas? I don’t give a darn what any magazine says. I know what I’ll have in my garage pretty soon
yeah!
magazine shmagazine
…these reviews just make me sad for those who subscribe to them…
…i myself have been in love with the new mini since it debuted as a concept following the rover acquisition…
…i had a green 03 MC and traded it for a DS/S 06 MCS before the new model came out because I loved the original that much…
…i recently let my very practical brother in law drive my MCS to the post office (a ho-hum 2 mile drive) and he returned safely and with a smirk…
…now i don’t know what happened, (though i can guess) as when he returned to seattle he sold his 06 acura TL, cancelled his honda fit (which he had custom ordered three days earlier), sold his 04 volvo wagon, and bought a silver 04 MCS for himself and his wife demanded a yellow 07 mcs for herself within two weeks of said test drive of my mini…
…i doubt any mazda owners have a story like that…
…and that’s all the review i will ever need…
I just ordered my first mini cooper and I’m thrilled at the prospect of finally owning something I know I will love. It was by sheer coincidence that I came across the new mini in an effort to find a more fuel efficient car. Who the hell else can claim 30+ mpg in turbo charged engine? and super fun to drive. gas mileage IS important to me and I can find no other car that I would want to own over the cooper…I have about 3 months until my car arrives at the dealer, I will take the mini three months from now over any other car that’s available right now.
The “R56 is superior to the R53” and viceversa are pretty debatable topics that have practically divided and shred to pieces the MINI community in recent months. Both generations have something truly special about them, but they are different cars, with different design and performance mindsets, no matter what the press packs from MINI may claim to the contrary.
Perhaps I can point out several areas of the R53 design that leave the R56 in the dust and probably point 20 different factoids that may make the R56 a more appealing machine to the masses.
I have read endless pro and against R56 discussion threads to sit down and write a drama soap opera about them… But one thing is blatantly clear in my own little world….
The R56 will appeal to folks that crave the “BMW” refinement in the MINI wrapper and the R53 will attract those who either don’t care or a simply turned off to a more refined ride and performance. In other words, those folks want a car that feels and drives resembling the old classic Mini and not necessarily a baby Bimmer.
Gabe may correct me if I am wrong but reading way back into this blog and recent R56 reviews of his, it seems to me he is the perfect customer for this car. He is a seasoned BMW owner, someone who grew up around Bimmers and someone that craves that BMW feel and refinement on the car he chooses to drive. From that very personal perspective, I think Gabe connects much better with the design language and feel of the R56. Therefore, the R56 is indeed a vastly superior car to the R53 because it better embodies the qualities he loves about BMW products.
But for some of us, the more raw, visceral, harsher riding, higher revving R53 is more in tune with its classic Mini roots, therefore for me and other R53 owners, the old car will continue to be the better choice in despiye of the R56s improvements in ride quality and powertrain systems.
Like I said at the beginning of this post, the advent of the R56 has caused an unecessary rupture in this community and I think dedicated MINI sites will do a great service to the MINI community in general by acknowledging the fact that both generations of the new MINI are MINIs at the core but are vastly different cars from each other and each has its positives and negatives, not necessarily making one better over the other.
I personally like the R56 but don’t crave to own one as I did with the R53. The car does not push my hot buttons like the old car did. The R56 feels smooth, comfy, the engine is like butter and the shifter action is the stuff dreas are made of. But the whole package put together still manages to turn me off. This is what I find interesting in this debate. So when someone says, “The R56 is far superior to the R53”, I don’t find that statement to be overly fair and balanced….
OK, let me get off my soap box now.
Gabe, just out of curiosity… Have you test driven the MazdaSpeed3?
You can take back the mic….
Is the R56 really “vastly superior” to the R53? In my experience, I would say the improvement is incremental and certainly not “vastly superior”. Making those kinds of statements seems to be unnecessarily antagonistic. Lets be pragmatic and rational about this, the R56 is a great car… and so is the R53!
I agree with what others have said, it’s horses for courses. You buy a Mini because it’s unique, it’s something different. While the GTI might have spawned the hot hatch phenomenon, it’s now just one of a dozen cars with hi performance engines shoehorned into econobox bodies with a bit of bling added for good effect. But at the end of the day, they’re still just generic VW’s or Mazda’s or what ever else. You certainly can’t say the Mini is in any way generic in either its design, performance, handling etc etc.
The Mini is the most awesome car in the world. Any magazine that does not recognize it’s superiority is obviously flawed and criminally stupid.
I call for an immediate coimmunity wide boycott of Road and Track and Car and Driver for failing to rank the Mini No. 1
I bet if they had used a highly modified version of the R56 with racing slicks, a rear seat delete, a wilwood brake kit and a custom dyno tune, it would have beaten all contenders. Why Road and Track didn’t ask for a Mini with these mods just shows that they weren’t interested in seeing a fair competition.
It just galls me that the rest of the automotive community isn’t as sophisticated or as knowledgable as us.
The R56 is not far superior to the R53. What good is pure enhanced performance if the styling is gawky. From the rear end it looks jacked up and you can plainly see the suspension. I tlooks terrible from the back. The plastic that replaced the wrap around glass is cheap. The fron is actually nice but all the new gaps just make it look pieced togther. It is only superior in terms of mechanics, it is far inferior in terms of asthetics.
The R53 will fall inot the catagory as a future collectible like all other first genaration classics. Look at the ’53 Corvette, ’54 T-bird, ’61 Lincoln, ’64 Mustang, ’66 GTO & Camero, ’66 Eldorado & Torenado, ’64 250SL. The first generation is always the purest expression of the design and subsequent models get reworked and dilluted or overgrown until a full re-style takes place. The ’02-04 MINI will be the one that ends up collectible because it IS A WHOLE PACKAGE. Nice performance, exceptional styling, good quality. The R56 may be far greater performance but it lost the purity of design the R53. It’s no longer a balanced package.
We will keep our ’04 MCS as it is great to look at and fun to drive and the MAZDASPEED3 is a bit more usefull and a lot of fun to drive. Make the MINI seem down right pokey.
i wonder, are any of these cars re-fitted for the new european pedestrian safety standards? The VW probably; however, I don’t think the rest of the “competition” have… I wonder how much of this is of any issue?
Anyways, I agree with everyone that MINI is technically in a different class. While, for example, MS3 might have very good (perhaps ever better) driving dynamics than the R56, some might have said the same thing about a 3-series BMW. What kind of puzzles me is why the 3-series is not included in the bunch while the MS3 is.
Having owned ’02 MC auto, ’03 MCS, ’04 MC, ’05 MC, ’06 MCSc auto, ’06 Civic Si, and now the R56 , I can say without hesitation that R56 is my favorite whether it’s styling, handling, ride, fuel economy, etc. out of the whole bunch. While the Si has very good ride and handles well, it just doesn’t have the fun factor and the go-cart driving dynamics.
I’ve also test-driven the GTI several times — likewise, it’s ride is great, styling is great, awesome engine and very good driving dynamics but at the expense of handling characteristics.
All of the other car tested have probably better ride for comfort and a feel of refinement than the R56 — But like many have written here, MINI is really a niche car for the enthusiasts — not really suited for comparison to the mainstream that the Road & Track have subjected to. In the end, it’s really up to the buyers to decide, which one they like.
I will say one negative thing about the R56, though. The lack of steering feel is really a major downfall of the R56. I have several times gotten into emergency braking situations, that, because of the lack of steering feel and the relatively light steering feel, the car can quickly get out of control due to steering over compensation for inexperienced drivers. Hopefully MINI will fix that in next iteration of improvements in the R56.
<blockquote>The R56 will appeal to folks that crave the “BMW” refinement in the MINI wrapper and the R53 will attract those who either don’t care or a simply turned off to a more refined ride and performance. In other words, those folks want a car that feels and drives resembling the old classic Mini and not necessarily a baby Bimmer.</blockquote>
I agree. Though the BMW possesses a performance angle that makes it much more interesting than its contemporary luxury car competitors, there’s a level of “numbness” to them that always makes me very happy to turn in my BMW loaner car and get my MINI back. I always feel like you’ve got to push a BMW up to around 100 mph (closed course, etc. 😉 before you get the kind of visceral driving experience the MINI has at pretty much any speed. That’s my preference. That’s lots of peoples’ preference. That doesn’t make the R56 an inferior or superior car – just different things for different people.
So though there are plenty of us who have our criticisms, we’re not “whiners” for the sake of hating change. We’re drivers, enthusiasts, and gearheads who don’t like a handful of things about the car and want them to be better. And what makes MotoringFile so great is that this is a place where that dialogue can take place. MINI actually pays attention to us here, crazy enough. I can’t speak for everybody, but I LOVE the MINI. I have for years. It took me two years to buy mine. I like about 90% of the new car. So when I say that I don’t like the center console or the on/off water and oil pumps, it’s because I care about the car and the brand in the long term. I don’t hate change, I just really don’t like a couple of changes on the new model. I’m allowed.
As eloquent as ever Nathaniel. A differing opinion is just that, different, not wrong, not right, and certainly not whining. Thank you.
I still love reading through the posts on subjects like this. The Mini is a great car but it isn’t the best. There are quite a few cars that can beat it in every category. Maybe not for the same price but they are out there. The Mini can’t dominate for very long in the fun factor category. Other companies have smart people working for them also. Well maybe not Ford or Chysler but you know what I mean. The only thing I didn’t like about the car was the durability. I mean build quality. It was worse built than any Ford i had ridden in. It looked great but I never had any of the problems with panels coming lose, transmission giving out with a Ford or Mitsubishi.
>Gabe may correct me if I am wrong but reading way back into this blog and recent R56 reviews of his, it seems to me he is the perfect customer for this car. He is a seasoned BMW owner, someone who grew up around Bimmers and someone that craves that BMW feel and refinement on the car he chooses to drive. From that very personal perspective, I think Gabe connects much better with the design language and feel of the R56. Therefore, the R56 is indeed a vastly superior car to the R53 because it better embodies the qualities he loves about BMW products.
>But for some of us, the more raw, visceral, harsher riding, higher revving R53 is more in tune with its classic Mini roots, therefore for me and other R53 owners, the old car will continue to be the better choice in despiye of the R56s improvements in ride quality and powertrain systems.
It’s a good point and it’s one I’ve tried to convey a few time – maybe not as well as you did. But I do think you’re simplifying why I like the car – probably because I haven’t articulated it well enough. But refinement is low on the list on why I love this car. Why do I like it? It comes down to performance for me – it’s faster, brakes better and corners in a more neutral fashion.
>Gabe, just out of curiosity… Have you test driven the MazdaSpeed3?
Yes – great car. Not something I would own. Actually I’d go with a GTI over the Mazda.
>the lack of steering feel and the relatively light steering feel, the car can quickly get out of control due to steering over compensation for inexperienced drivers. Hopefully MINI will fix that in next iteration of improvements in the R56.
Actually the steering on my R53 was noticably lighter than the R56 press car I had (w/sport button on). I drove the two back to back to back and was amazed at the difference. And yes, there’s undoubtedly slightly less feel in the stock set-up. However with my 18″ OZ and Kumhos on, the R56 felt every bit as razr-sharp as my R53.
BTW – I love my R53. I absolutely think it’s a classic in every sense of the word and I hate to think of ever selling it. However the R56 is simply a better car in every quantitative way cars are measured. And at the end of the I simply enjoyed it more. Yes, you’re giving up some visceral feel and rawness. Yes, there are those who will miss that and harken back to the glory days of 2002-2006. And I can’t blame them if that’s what they value. But at the end of the day, the R56 is the car MINI had to make. It’s lighter, faster, quicker, and goes around tracks and autox’s better. It is in a word…. improved.
I love my classic 67 classic mini, my R53, and have all ready have fallen for the new R56. Each car has a lot going for it, and each is a very different car from each other. For my addiction to my multiple R53’s I’ve owned I can deffinetly tell you that its still light years from the origonal, visceral feel of the origonal mini is much different than the R53. So if the new R56 steps a bit away from the R53 I seriously can say that there is no doubt that I will fall in love with my R56 the same way.
Not one of these cars are perfect, each has a lot going for it and some rather questionable things. What makes owning a Mini in my book is to take the base car and make it your own. With that idea I can’t wait to improve on the R56 to make it the perfect car for me.
Guys, it’s really a value thing.
When you spend $23k on Mazdaspeed3, you get all the performance stuff — hp, suspension, !8″ wheels/performance rubber, sports seats, bodykit, etc…, baked in to the base price.
The GTI, which is closer in price to MCS has better fit and finish, higher-qulity materils, more space and more power. The base plaid seats in the GTI are a thousand times nicer than the shiny/polyester fabric on the Mini seats.
Even the Civic Si Coupe and Sedan offer a hell of a lot for not a lot of money.
And last, a number of publications including Car and Driver are nor pleased with the handling of the MCS.
i agree with those before — the competition is catching up. When Mini hit the market, there were few if any real alternatives. Now there are lots.
Mini doesn’t need to change the car, it needs to change the value equation. Lots of you guys say, “well wait until the JCW package comes out!”
To that I say, who wants to spend $30k for a 210hp MCS?
And don’t forget — I still love the MCS…
>When you spend $23k on Mazdaspeed3, you get all the performance stuff – hp, suspension, !8″ wheels/performance rubber, sports seats, bodykit, etc…, baked in to the base price.
I totally understand the argument. But the thing you have to remember is that MINI (and BMW) don’t really play the value game. They don’t need to. The MINI plays in a premium US small car segment that <em>it invented</em>. You can talk performance for money all day long and you’ll walk right down the latter to the Cobalt SS eventually. With the MINI, it’s the package. The design, the performance, the brand. It’s something you can quanitify with numbers.
Only two things that are getting in the way for me to buy a mini: my wife said the car is too small and not safe, and the dealer is too far (1 to 1 1/2 hour away depending on the traffic). I can probably ignore my wife’s opinion, but there is nothing I can do about the dealer being too far. (I suppose I can move closer if I want a mini so badly.) Talking about the competition, well, mini cannot compete on this one.
When you spend $23k on Mazdaspeed3, you get all the performance stuff – hp, suspension, !8″ wheels/performance rubber, sports seats, bodykit, etc…, baked in to the base price.
I totally understand the argument. But the thing you have to remember is that MINI (and BMW) don’t really play the value game. They don’t need to.
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They din’t need to in 2002… Maybe they do now…
>They din’t need to in 2002… Maybe they do now…
April sales are up 19.2% year over year.
I am not convinced MINI needs to change its game-plan because of a 4th place finish in a car test.
These $25K tests are all about bang-for-the-buck and we all know MINI is a blend of handling, sharpness and quickness.
If it’s pound-for-pound value a person wants, the MINI definitely isn’t it. The trouble with these car tests is that things get boiled down to equations… what I thought the whole “motoring” movement was against. The V8 Mustang is a beast for $25k if that’s what someone is after. But why read this board then?
I think we’re all forgetting how unique the MINI truly is, and why it’s worth the cash BMW charges.
The Mazdaspeed3, the GTI, the Civic SI … these are all variants of regular econo-cars. The MINI is a MINI, designed and engineered with the balance and handling of a sports car from Day 1. It’s no wonder the MINI handling numbers are in super-car territory, or that it goes from 0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds while only putting out 172 horsepower!
It costs money to create an entire brand from scratch. BMW is actually trying to acquire a FWD-based car platform like Volvo to use MINI technology and recoup development costs from creating MINI. They put the cash into the car, no question.
If a driver needs more gear for his/her money, that’s understandable, but remember you’re getting a souped-up econo-box, not a car from scratch.
BTW, here is a link to the MiniNuts forum – a mini club in LA. This is one of the threads where they like to joke about all the buttons they like to press here at MF. They also like to bash up the R56, the R56 designers, and even Down’s Syndrome children (if its useful to make fun of the R56 of course)
<a href="http://www.mininuts.com/forum/index.php?a=topic&t=710" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.mininuts.com/forum/index.php?a=topic&t=710</a>
Real upstanding crew there. I’m sure we all value their opinions. Oh, and if they yank the page drop me an email – I’d be happy to send you a PDF.
^^^^Bingo.
Between the Mini Cooper, Mazda 3, Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra and VW Golf, ask yourself which is the more focused product.
Base model cars, I mean. Mazda 3i, Honda Civic DX, Sentra 2.0. Oh, and it’s the VW Rabbit here, not Golf.
The R&T data sheet states the R56 they tested has Dunlop SP Sport 01 tires, but Gabe reported that the same press car had all-season tires when he received it. I wonder if the tires were switched out after the R&T test or if their information is incorrect.