MINI Pumps up the Volume

petsounds Oct 25th, 2004 Link

If they are wise they would bring it over, given the lackluster and overpriced HK “system”…

However wattage doesn't mean much if it isn't a) consistent wattage, which a lot of cheaper amps can't deliver, and b) the fidelity is no better than your standard system. At ~$1600 U.S. dollars for this system, if it was available here you'd probably be better off going to a competent third-party stereo installer anyway, unless warranty issues are a concern.

Ryan Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Hasn't this been available since late 2003? I've seen official instalation guides on this from way back. Unless the DPSM is different from the Sound Module.

KevinR Oct 25th, 2004 Link

~$1,600 is a lot to pay; but I've spent more in the past to upgrade my car's audio systems. I haven't touched the MINI's audio yet, but plan to soon. I'd like to see it offered in the US. However, the ultimate test will be hearing it in a demo vehicle.

David S. Oct 25th, 2004 Link

How come everytime something is posted about the MINI's tunes, someone chimes in to dog the HK system? I think it sounds pretty darn good for an upgrade?!?

Mike Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Yeah, I dunno, I'm no huge audiophile, but I can definitely appreciate the difference in stereo systems, and I love my HK.

Allan Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I'm more worried about the performance about my car than the audio. Also HK is plenty for me…Oh and no matter how hard i looked, i can never find all 8 speakers, only 6.. someone point the last two out for me..

Ian Cull Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Allan, The top position in the door (the tiny one next to the door open handle) has two speakers behind it – a tweeter inside a midrange.

MadisonMini Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I think the HK in my 2005 MCSC is very good, except for the vibration of the door panels at certain frequencies. Wonder if the new system replaces the speakers, or at least address better isolation of the front speakers.

Frank Oct 25th, 2004 Link

If they plan to offer a 660 watt stereo for the MINI (Double power of the current HK), they better also offer some substantial insulation for the interior as well. The MINI has a lot of plastic inside and adding more power to the small cabin acoustics will require some serious tweaking of the insulation among others.

It seems to me that a lot of people have a bone to pick with the Harman Kardon stereo. If you don't like it, so be it, but it is a very good stereo for a factory upgrade and price point (Regardless of what many claim to the contrary)and delivers very good sound quality, enough to keep me happy behind the wheel.

If you want the ultimate audiophile sound system, you are much better off spending the dough in a home system.

Cars are very noisy environments and at the end of the day, a car like the MINI is meant to be driven, not turned into some sort of rolling concert hall because that it will never be.

$1600? What are these people smoking???? Acapulco Gold Cannabis???

petsounds Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Well I suppose I should clarify since I seem to have ruffled a few feathers. The stock MINI stereo (which I have) is quite good. The HK system adds some extra low-end and more wattage, for about $500 if memory serves. I think that's overpriced, but if you're satisfied with it, excellent. Basically, what I was trying to say is that the stock stereo is pretty damn good, and the HK system doesn't do enough to top it. This DPSM would certainly do that, but at $1600 it's hard to justify.

Frank Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I own 2 MINIs. The '02 Cooper CVT came with the factory CD Boost stereo (HK was still unavailable at the time) and a '04 MCS with the Harman Kardon.

The only thing going for the stock CD Boost stereo is that it can develop a little bit more volume, but to my ears the basic system lacks bass and the highs and vocals are not that impressively clear. The Harmon Kardon effectively addresses my complaints with the stock CD Boost system.

The standard stereo is decent for a factory stereo, but if you like music and don't want to go the aftermarket routem, the H/K system is a very reasonable compromise for the money. Also, the H/K is pretty seamingly integrates into the car without losing precious cargo space, etc.

People that are often dissapointed with the H/K always complain about the “lack of volume” from the stereo. First of all, the H/K stereo was not designed to blow the windows of all cars around you in traffic or to create earth shattering frequency responses. the H/K is a cleverly designed and conceived system perfectly tuned to the MINI's limited cabin acoustics and made to deliver high quality sound over deafening volume characteristics.

We can be here all night long going back and forth with the HK vs CD Boost vs Aftermarket car stereos topic, but at the end of the day, people buy what they want and what they feel delivers the most of the Dollar in terms of sound quality reproduction and for me personally, the H/K stereo with 320 watts still is a cut above the stock CD Boost system.

budD Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Order a new MINI cabrio with premium group and they throw in an HK system (as a replacement to the sunroof?)in the price. My first 02 MINI was purchased before the HK system was available, so can't comment on the sound quality. My 05 convertible is on the docks (with the HK system) so should be able to make a comparison quite soon.

elmor fudwel Oct 25th, 2004 Link

For me and my '02 MCS, the stock cd system was flat and exhibited no dimensional aspects. After basically leaving the stereo off during my first two years of ownership I wanted to hear something in my car.

Granted the iTrip is a good device to play thru the stereo, I was disappointed with that to.

Luckily, I had a Alpine w/cass. radio from a previous vehicle ten years ago. My memory of the system was deep full bodied sound, and I remeber is sounding very sweet in of all things…a Saturn Sport Coupe. I originally payed $600 for the system and never regretted the expense.

As I said the radio has been boxed up for the past ten years almost to the day that I stopped listening to it. Having been disappointed with the stock radio (15watts) I thought that the Alpine (30 watts) would hopefully sound so much better.

Spending $130 to have the Alpine installed and with a headphone jack to plug into my iPod, I am so happy that I made the jump to put it . No regrets.

Listening to a HK system recently at the dealership, it didn't sound any better than my Alpine. Which is ok. I'm not knocking the HK, as it sounded lushcious, but for the money spent, I get to listen to my sound system that I really enjoyed ten years ago, and it sounds better.

MadisonMini Oct 25th, 2004 Link

As far as volume goes, I don't know how people can knock it. With the top down in my convertible, going 70 mph, I can turn the HK up to still hear things perfectly without distortion. How can you beat that? How much louder does it need to be? It doesn't seem to strain at high volumes…my only concern is that the doors need to be reinforced better given the occasional hum at resonant frequencies, especially if the power of the new system is increased.

JB Oct 25th, 2004 Link

thanks gabe! i asked this question of your email inbox last week and an answer is here already! awesome!

thanks again

d.j. derek Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Gabe:

What's wrong with MINIUSA? I can't get on their website for some reason…

Chris Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I had a 2002 Cooper with the stock stereo from MINI. I have since upgraded to a MINI Cooper S Convertible with Harmon Kardon system. Let me tell you, the regular stock system in my 02 Cooper sounded noticibly better. DO NOT OPT FOR HARMON KARDON it is a COMPLETE WASTE OF $$$$. MINI needs to get it together with this upgrade cause it is BAD!!! Had I not gotten the navigation (you need Harmon Kardon with Navigation) I would never have opted for this horrendously bad waste of money upgrade. Please take it from me, this is my second MINI and I am disgusted with the low output of this system.

d.j. derek Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Called MINIUSA today looking for an answer as to why their website is not up, to which they responded. Come to find out, the ANTHRACITE HEADLINER is discontinued, yet again along with the alloy wheels in ANTHRACITE. It seems MINIUSA can't keep up with their own accessories. I thought the MINI COOPER was about options? I guess not…

mrs mini Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I've got my 05 mini cooper s on order for jan production with the hk system i think for the money its an exellent system i also have harmon kardon speakers on my computer so all in all i think its money well spent

MOTOR ON

Gabe Oct 25th, 2004 Link

both are still available… sometimes the fine folks at MINIUSA don't have the most up-to-date info.

GSKChicago Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Chris… I have an '05 MCS with Nav and HK. I am very happy with the HK upgrade, but I am perplexed by your comment that you have to have the HK to get Nav. I didn't have to get the HK, I simply happen to want it though. Wonder why you would have been told that.

Okay… Regarding the new stereo available in the UK… I remember reading (or hearing) once that if you have a 100 watt sound system, you need 1000 watts to be twice as powerful. So bringing the new system to 660 from the 300+ for the HK, does not make it twice as powerful based on that data. HOWEVER, I only recall hearing or reading about that. I never researched, therefore I have no idea if I am speaking the truth.

Okay. Been busy lately, haven't posted in a few days. Was gettin' itchy to do so. :o)

G.

allan MICHAEL Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I have a HK system and think it is fabulous. I have aftermarketed (a made up word) every car i have had– EXcept the Mini MCS w/ the HK. It is a blast- w/o loosing space from having a JL sub. If you wnat louder sound out of your HK folks make sure you download mussic at 192 kbps– not 128(read= lower volume). I too will be getting my door handles dynomatted soon to get rid of the only complaint i have– a low frequency rattle there.

enjoy

allan

Chris Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Trust me, the regular system is head and shoulders above the HK system. I have had both! H/K sucks! They make great computer speakers but for the convertible it sucks!

Ryan Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Wow. I can't believe how many people have said the H/K “sucks”. While there are many other options to choose from in the aftermarket that will produce better range of frequencies, thus truer sound – to compare it with the stock Boost radio is unsubstantiated. The differences in the H/K are notably improved over stock. Don't think so? Go to your dealer and sit in a demo without H/K and then sit in one with H/K. The resonance in the bass and highs are tremendously improved.

If you want a better stereo, the question you have to ask is do you want great sound with steering wheel control compatibility or even better sound (possibly less in cost) without MFSW controls. If you go aftermarket you can't use the MFSW – UNLESS you are an electronic wiz like Ian Cull and manage to rig yours up to work (not a simple task).

Gabe Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Yeah I'm kinda surprised as well. If some of you out there are considering the HK as an option and would like a fairly subjective opinion read the review in the review section on the right side of this page.

Morris Dami Oct 25th, 2004 Link

As someone said before, if you're planning on upgrading stereo, go stock radio, not HK – in HK's case, you have to replace everything because of DSP and stuff.

Since I used to have fairly expensive stereos (back in the days when I was single and had money…) I'm planning on replacing stereo piece-by-piece (already added Infiniti sub).

Morris Dami Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Ryan:

There's plenty of adapters to use MFSW, read MINI2.com, one guy who's hardcore into MINI's electrics sells adapters cheap for most aftermarket stereos (forgot his nick)

elmor fudwel Oct 25th, 2004 Link

With the installment of the Alpine head unit that I described from my post earlier, I did lose the ability to control the unit. UNLESS I opted for a whatchamacallit to connect the steering controls to the head unit.

The extra expense did not seem worth it at this point. The Alpine has a nifty volume control that is easy to operate, and granted retaining the steering controls would have been nice. For me, unemployment helped me to decide to opt out of the whatchamacallit. It isn't that big of a distraction having to adjust the volume. But this particuliar head unit has always been about ease of us.

Another point is that I can't control the iPod from the steering controls either unless another third party product was purchased. Yes, as most everyone, the iPod can be a challenge to operate. I listen mostly to dj mixed music so it plays for a good hour or so anyway. At which point, after an hour or so, I get tired of listening to anything anyway or I've reached my destination.

Maybe if the employment thing changes I'll consider adding the connection. In the meantime, the sound is soo much better than the stock system and the H/K.

elmor fudwel Oct 25th, 2004 Link

I forgot to mention that the head unit matches the inside just right.

About ten years ago, Alpine had it so the background colours could be selected from two selections. The traditional green cast like most cars or the orange lit background. Choice is good.

The orange lighting fits right in…

elmor fudwel Oct 25th, 2004 Link

And one more thing….

While having the installation performed, I found out that there are several third party units with built in retractable screens that enable gps navigation service. Now how nifty is that. If at some point I want to fork over the money, about the same as most built in gps, I can install the feature into my '02 MCS. Get the help from the system, press the button, and the screen retracts into the head housing….presto, poof, disappero!

For those that might want to consider the two birds and one stone thing this might be another option.

petsounds Oct 25th, 2004 Link

Wow, you H/K owners are so defensive. People can't give an opinion without you saying they are wrong. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion — if you like your H/K, great. A friend of mine has the H/K and I have the stock, so I've had plenty of opportunities to compare, and I think it's not worth the extra money. Then again, I don't think most car manufacturer stereo upgrades are worth the price.

The bigger problem I see is that MINI USA likes to threaten everyone with warranty violations for installing aftermarket stereo equipment. I never had that problem with my Audi; in fact, dealers used to ask me where I got mine installed so they could refer clients. As hard as MINI's marketing people have tried to create such an “individualist” brand, MINI corporate (and/or dealers) seems to try equally hard to do everything they can to stop customizations of our cars. So I can see why a lot of people would want to go with the H/K system. There's not much other choice if you want to maintain the warranty.

dillon Oct 26th, 2004 Link

…I can't wait for it to start selling here in the U.S…

…think how cool I'll look blasting my,”Best of Donnie and Marie” CD.

“…I'm a little bit country…I'm a little bit rock and roll…”(lol)

Frank Oct 26th, 2004 Link

I think the only touchy people here are the H/K bashers that can't take comments that don't agree with thier views.

To each his or her own, if you think the stock stereo rocks (yeah right!) then so be it, if you trash the H/K, then so be it.

Facts speak for themselves and at the end of the day everyone chooses what sounds better to their ears and wallets.

I repeat again…. My stock '02 stereo has volume but it lacks depth, bass and clear highs in other words it doesn't sound extremely high quality to me (May be the stock speakers are to blame). The H/K fixed those problems found in the H/K stereo.

All I know is that my Jazz recordings sound fantastic in my H/K and get lost in the stock stereo.

So who's feisty?

Frank Oct 26th, 2004 Link

One more point to clarify. I don't like aftermarket stereos and much less having someone remove interior trim panels and cut and splice cables in my brand new car.

To me money is better spent in home systems. I like the H/K because it gives me a very reasonable high quality sound system without having to intrude in the car's interior and introduce rattles and such while keeping the warranty.

That's my personal preference so be it.

KevinR Oct 26th, 2004 Link

At one point in my life, I installed aftermarket car stereos for a living. I used to be convinced that was the only way to go. Then, I realized that no matter what I did, it would never match even a reasonably priced home system. Plus, some other things came into play:

1) People started breaking into my cars to steal the stereo. I find it a pain to have to remove the radio or faceplate or whatever any time I get out of the car. Having a factory headunit means I don't have to.

2) Friends in the used car business told me they automatically deduct money from a car if it has (or ever had) an aftermarket stereo system. They just assume it was put in poorly.

Since I bought my car off the lot, I didn't have a choice of H/K or not. If I had ordered my car, I would have auditioned both systems and made my decision based on my choice of music and my listening preferences. If this system becomes available in the US, I plan to give it a tryout.

Matt Oct 26th, 2004 Link

it seems to me that we may be discussing something at a very subjective level. the difference between preceived volume (loudness) and sound quality. IMO, the HK system provides considerably better sound quality than stock. the music/talk is more accurately reproduced from the media with considerably less distortion. this in itself could be the problem many have, i'll explain.

distortion is very often confused with volume (loudness). a distorted signal is preceived to be louder by the ear. i don't recall the biology behind this, but it's a fact. a high-fidelity signal won't sound as loud (subjective) as a low-fidelity signal at = output.

this is what the HK system provides, Higher Fidelity than stock.

if you'll read the PDF you'll notice the HK system bests the stock system by only 3 db, therefore your not paying for volume (loudness) but fidelity.

be advised though. extended listening at >80db can result in temporary hearing loss, and anything >100db results in permanant hearing loss. maybe you don't care now, but you will. i didn't and now i have tinnitus which is a constant ringing in my ears that will never go away.

Ryan Kime Oct 26th, 2004 Link

GSKChicago…

For every 3db increase, you have to essentially double the previous total wattage output.

As Matt mentioned, the HK only adds 3db over the stock system. That is one reason why the HK system doesn't sound “louder”.

petsounds Oct 26th, 2004 Link

Frank -

I'm not really defending the stock unit. I don't like it much because I'm an audiophile, but I don't want to endanger my warranty by dropping in an aftermarket system.

I don't perceive a higher fidelity in the H/K system. It does have better low-end response, and it's a bit louder, though loudness isn't a main criteria for me. I think the main problems are that the speakers are still average, and it uses the same head unit as the stock system. As they say, a system is only as good as the weakest link. The H/K is better than the stock system, but everyone has a different valuation of what's good and not and the price/value comparison didn't feel right to me. I definitely was not trying to get into an argument. I'm happy you like your H/K — I would hate for someone to order something on their MINI and then be disappointed.

JB Oct 26th, 2004 Link

i have a question regarding compatibility with the HK system. My mini is H/K equipped, and i wish to add the digital power sound module in order to improve the bass response for that really thumping bassline without compromising what is an extremely sweet sound system right now. when i have my system cranked to the max it doesnt distort, it is pure sweet signal. i am just missing the body moving thumps that a couple of 12″ subs would provide. Gabe, do you know if its a choice of dpsm or h/k or if they are both happy to live in the same car?

thanks

scotteast Oct 26th, 2004 Link

£995 is actually over $1800 at today's exchange rate. Either way, it's way too much money for a stereo upgrade.

As for the HK, I think it's worth what you pay. I don't have it, but will probably get it next time.

GregF Oct 26th, 2004 Link

I just read somewhere(MINI2?)that it takes 5 hours to install this system. The $1800 better include installation.

Chris Oct 27th, 2004 Link

HK is NOT WORTH IT!!! Trust me!!! I have had both stock and now the HK. I am sooooo dissappointed!!! I can hardly hear it with the top down!!! My old stock system used to crank!!!

Frank Oct 27th, 2004 Link

Chris it seems to me that you are the type of guy who is impressed and perfectly happy with cheap beer….

Sid the Squid Oct 27th, 2004 Link

Seems some of the defensiveness shown here has more to do with the disappoinment of a previous decision.

The inability to take the responsibility and deal with it as an adult is prevalent in the childishness being displayed toward other individuals opinions…much like our political climate of today. =: O

Roger Apr 22nd, 2005 Link

For what it’s worth I ordered my MCS this week and did a close comparison between the stock & H/K sterios in 4 Minis. I like the stock better based on the sound of some of my ‘reference’ CDs and FM.

Roger

Billy Jun 8th, 2005 Link

I just bought an 02 with the stock stereo. I actually find that it almost gives me a headache at modest volumes. I really don’t want to spend any more on my car (it came with a great choice of options), but if the fidelity on the H/K is that much better and it doesn’t bother my ears, then maybe I’ll shoot for it. For loud music, I typically only want techno and stuff like Tool (i.e. no Jazz or classical requirements)

Comments?

p.s. Has anyone had trouble playing MP3s on the stock stereo? Should it be able to? I haven’t gone through enough to assess, but it wasn’t reading at least one cd. It could just be scratched …

my MINI.. « Lenore Nevermore Jun 10th, 2009 Link

[...] Digital Power Sound module (DPSM) [...]