John Cooper Works GP Tuning Kit Specs

Ian F Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Hmm… }:-|

Ric Stofer Oct 27th, 2005 Link

They could/should have done a lot more. We will see soon.

Ian C. Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Can’t believe 88lbs makes any real difference at all.

David Bunting Oct 27th, 2005 Link

88 lbs?!?!? I’m curious to see the official details but 88 lbs with a rear seat delete isn’t impressing me much right now.

Maybe we’re getting that speedster with the s-lites afterall. :D j/k

Robert Tanner Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I was expecting more given all the hype surrounding the expected release. With only 7 more HP than a works package, what is the one thing that led to that raise? My only thought is keeping with my decision to purchase a regular MCS with the Works and adding after market mods to increase well over that. I guess I could remove the rear seats and change out the rims & tires as well to give the same weight savings.

Maybe we will hear differently as the oficial announcment comes to light.

Tanner

Erik Oct 27th, 2005 Link

All the anticipation and only 88lbs. Seems like with a little effort you could make your very own special lightweight GP MINI.. lighter wheels, lighter battery, lighter seats, maybe a lighter exhaust, lose 10lbs driver weight… voila probably more than 88lb reduction.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Can’t believe 88lbs makes any real difference at all.

While they’re a little low – I wouldn’t be too harsh on these figures until we know more.

Maybe we will hear differently as the oficial announcment comes to light.

Probably not as these are from MINI Germany PR.

Robert Tanner Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I amsure you are correct as you always seem to have the inside track information or correct foresight. I guess we were all just hoping for more.

Lucas Oct 27th, 2005 Link

88lbs seems like a very resonable amount… if you try to lighten your OWN cooper S!

matt Oct 27th, 2005 Link

the MINI doesn’t weigh all that much in the first place. coupled with the increase in power, i wonder what the Power/Weight ratio is now?

matt Oct 27th, 2005 Link

ah 2600…

Charlie Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Yes, a little underwhelming at this point; but let’s see what it looks like in photos rather than drawings. Hopefully this won’t be a repeat of the Monte Carlo fiasco.

Pamlico Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Interesting. Just spoke with my dealer at a reception they held last night. I was told they received an official notice from MINI yesterday that stated the weight reduction was to be 300 (!!) lbs. Also said each dealer would be receiving two of these models. He wouldn’t discuss price at this point.

Robert Tanner Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I am sure that with only two units alloted to each dealer that just like other company limited model runs, the price will climb and only the privileged few will be able to acquire them.

David Bunting Oct 27th, 2005 Link

and only the privileged few will be able to acquire them.

In this case “privileged” seams to mean MotoringFile readers that already contacted their dealer months ago about getting on wait a list.

JTC Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Thats about the weight of a Cooper :( …

And the 215bhp didn’t amase me that much either, I thought this one would be a bit more extreme. But M3 CSL isn’t MUCH better than the standard one so I guess this would be a typical step from BMW…

CPatisaul Oct 27th, 2005 Link

If it’s only 88 lbs that means I can get the weight advantage easy, just kick my kids (and their car seats) out of the back and I’m there!

Alternatively I’ll go find an MCS owner that weighs 240 lbs and brag that he’ll have to go get the $35,000 special to match my curb weight!

:)

Robert Tanner Oct 27th, 2005 Link

“In this case “privileged” seams to mean MotoringFile readers that already contacted their dealer months ago about getting on wait a list.”

Bryn Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Fingers crossed that every dealer DOES get two — as I am Number 2 on his list!

TBH Oct 27th, 2005 Link

“Monte Carlo” fiasco ????? I am still cornfused in the general non-appreciative attitude towards the MC40. What was the Mini public expecting? The car was only about 3 years into its production and it seems that BMW was da ned if they did and da ned if they did’nt respect the history of our beloved vehicle. The release of this model did nothing to hurt the brand and was simply a commemorative edition of the car. If they would have loaded it with the JCW and set the price at 35k people would have complained about that.

Bryn Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Pamlico: Was that a UK-dealer, pls?

matt Oct 27th, 2005 Link

< – No. 4 on the list

here’s hoping some dealers are more equal than others.

C. Tate Oct 27th, 2005 Link

@ matt

Seems to me that the longer the wait list, the more confident the dealer might be in marking-up the price, which in turn might mean that people in early slots might not want to/be able to fork over the green to make the purchase. So, depending on dealer greed and your disposable income, number 4 on a list might be a better spot than number 2.

Hulles Oct 27th, 2005 Link

All im hopin for is that the parts are available separately. the wing in those drawings looked pretty nice.

DM

jj Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I hope they meant 88 kilos, or 236 lbs :-|

Dale Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Isn’t 88 kilos more like 194 pounds?

Bad Burro Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I’m keeping my fingers crossed (already on wait list, #1 on the list) that the weight reduction is much more than 88 lbs…maybe 88 kg? And the hp increase is more than 215. If it is only 88lbs, what is the point other than bragging rights to say you have a GP MINI? When the 2007 and later models come out and the tuners increase the hp and torque to well over 230, the GP MINI won’t look that special after all. Also, as we have seen from the MC 40, limited edition doesn’t always mean a better, more coveted car. Just my 2 cents worth.

Bad Burro Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Also, dumping the S-lites and runflats for say 13-14 lbs. wheels will shave almost 40 lbs. from a MCS…

GMINI Oct 27th, 2005 Link

yeesh. what a let down.

kev Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I forget where I said it before, but we’ll never see the real wt. saving measures like light wt. glass and light wt. front seats on this side of the pond because federal regs. would require Mini to retests the car and they won’t do that due to costs. Additionaly, I seriously doubt the US version will have the rear seats deleted (hence only 88lbs in total wt. savings). The Fed. won’t allow the rear seats to come out unless something goes in their place to ensure people won’t sit back there.

I bet the wt reduction comes from light wt. wheels, more aluminum components and some carbon fiber tid bits here and there. They may make A/C and the radio an option too.

Only the days will tell the full truth.

matt Oct 27th, 2005 Link

why is this a let down?

the MINI’s not that heavy to begin with and they dropped 88lb/kg from it. bare in mind it’s not only the weight dropped, but where the weight came from and how it affects the balance of the car.

if they thined out the glass, put in an alloy roof, doors, hood, & hatch, then the seemingly meager 88lbs will move the center of mass down, which should help cornering tremendously.

RW Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Do you guys want some crackers with your whine.

Edge Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Whether it’s 215HP, 230HP, 235HP or whatever… the question will still remain… will there be an official JCW upgrade from the current 207HP for those of us with JCW today?

Brian Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Maybe this isnt the super-fancy lightweight car that we are expecting, but rather the factory kit that will ready your showroom car for the JCW championship that Mr. Wicks spoke about during the last White Roof Radio?

Unlikely, but worth considering.

Pamlico Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Bryn – the info I got was from a US dealer, not the UK.

Just to repeat, was at a dealer reception last night and asked my salesguy if he knew anything about the lightweight MCS coming. His response was on the line of “What a coincidence as we just got an official notice from MINI about that”. Specifically said 300 lb weight reduction and two per dealer. Did not mention hp though.

Bryn Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Thanks, Pamlico for clarification. Obviously, was wondering about relevance to my situation in England re. dealer allocation.. Cheers.

Avitor Oct 27th, 2005 Link

All the anticipation and only 88lbs. Seems like with a little effort you could make your very own special lightweight GP MINI.. lighter wheels, lighter battery, lighter seats, maybe a lighter exhaust, lose 10lbs driver weight… voila probably more than 88lb reduction.

I’m with Erik on this. An ‘06 S with Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, and JCW packages is $31k with no other options! That’s 2,678 unladen pounds and 207bhp, with a back seat. Based solely on these numbers – with what can be done with an MCS and aftermarket Goodies I can’t call this special edition a great deal – or even reasonably priced, I’m not even convinced it could catch a premium over a “run of the mill” ‘06 JCW MCS 50 years from now at Barrett-Jackson. That said, a dead stock ‘05 MCS sans JCW and LSD has been shown to be capable of a quicker 0-60 speed than early JCW cars – thanks solely to a 5bhp increase and enhanced gear ratios. Maybe the engineers at MINI have a lot more up their sleeves than trimming 88lbs. of fat and tweaking the ECU…

tanya Oct 27th, 2005 Link

That said, a dead stock ‘05 MCS sans JCW and LSD has been shown to be capable of a quicker 0-60 speed than early JCW cars.

But a completely different story 30-90. Not so into off-the-line drag racing myself, but whatever works for you… I think it’s an American thing. Sunday! Sunday! Funny cars! :)

mfc Oct 27th, 2005 Link

RW has the single greatest comment on this post

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

That said, a dead stock ‘05 MCS sans JCW and LSD has been shown to be capable of a quicker 0-60 speed than early JCW cars – thanks solely to a 5bhp increase and enhanced gear ratios. Maybe the engineers at MINI have a lot more up their sleeves than trimming 88lbs. of fat and tweaking the ECU…

I think that will be the key.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

But a completely different story 30-90. Not so into off-the-line drag racing myself, but whatever works for you… I think it’s an American thing. Sunday! Sunday! Funny cars! :)

Well, I wouldn’t say completely different :)

Tony T Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Everyones talking about ‘lightweight wheels’ as if the standard Mini has heavy wheels. Well, sad fact is, the quoted kerb weight on Mini’s is with the lighter weight 16″ alloys, not the fat heavy 17″ S lites.

Personaly, if the current known facts are true, i think there will be a lot of people in the UK cancelling their orders. Its not going to be special enough, plus the fact that most of us already have high spec JCW cars, which dealers will offer a very poor trade in against one of these GP cars – at the end of the current model productiuon run don’t forget – it could end up being a very costly mistake. And resale of any car with the back seats missing is going to be appaling.

WHITE ELEPHANT i think is the phrase that we’re looking for…

Personally, I want the car advertised in the Autoexpress scoop. Oooops, I already have it…. :-)

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Everyones talking about ‘lightweight wheels’ as if the standard Mini has heavy wheels. Well, sad fact is, the quoted kerb weight on Mini’s is with the lighter weight 16″ alloys, not the fat heavy 17″ S lites.

That is absolutely true… all official specifications are without the sunroof and with the 16″ wheels.

Chris K. Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I wish BMW would take over the ‘tuning’ aspect of the MINIs. We deserve a true ‘M’ version with a rounded tuning package (power, brakes, and suspension). I’m sure anyone of us would fork over $30,000 for a true factory performance MINI.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I wish BMW would take over the ‘tuning’ aspect of the MINIs. We deserve a true ‘M’ version with a rounded tuning package (power, brakes, and suspension). I’m sure anyone of us would fork over $30,000 for a true factory performance MINI.

While we’ll never see the M brand associated wiith MINIs I believe much of what you just asked for will be coming with the next generation JCW.

dgszweda Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I am a bit disappointed with the preliminary numbers that Gabe has released. This is way off the rumored 230hp and 10-15% weight loss. 88lbs isn’t much. Just getting rid of the heavy stock 17″ wheels down to some lightweight 16″ can save you almost 40lbs. So I am not quite sure what we are getting, although I am curious as to where they are getting the extra power. I would have thought that the replacement of body panels would have yielded more weight savings.

Bryn Oct 27th, 2005 Link

By “next generation JCW” are we to understand the 07 model year, new design turbo engined, car range are already planned to be offered with ‘Works’ kits – or what? (Sorry if that’s a little off topic but I’m not clear about your observation.)

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I am a bit disappointed with the preliminary numbers that Gabe has released. This is way off the rumored 230hp and 10-15% weight loss. 88lbs isn’t much. Just getting rid of the heavy stock 17″ wheels down to some lightweight 16″ can save you almost 40lbs.

Something to keep in mind… the official weight specs are based on a stock MCS with the lighter 16″ wheels. So comparing the weight you lose from the S-lites to what they’ve done with the GP is really apples vs oranges.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

By “next generation JCW” are we to understand the 07 model year, new design turbo engined, car range are already planned to be offered with ‘Works’ kits – or what? (Sorry if that’s a little off topic but I’m not clear about your observation.)

First off there will be a JCW version of the next generation MINI. Secondly I would guess the new JCW MCS won’t debut until a year (roughly) after the launch of the next generation MINI as they’ll be busy doing all final testing. So I would think more ‘08 than ‘07 for the next gen JCW MCS.

Bryn Oct 27th, 2005 Link

re. weight loss, just in case it hasn’t been picked up during recent discussions/posts, losing the back seats saves c 36 pounds. So lose the as standard radio fit and, maybe, one of the exhaust resonators and you’re well over half way towards that 88 pounds’ saving. In which case, there can’t be much in the way off trick lightweight bodywork involved. Consequently, just how much input did Bertone have? Maybe a lightened tailgate and those sexy sills (if they have survived beyond the artist’s impression)? All Q’s & no A’s at the moment……!

tanya Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Gabe: Well, I wouldn’t say completely different :)

Ok, maybe not completely different, but 20% more peak hp makes a pretty massive difference once rolling.

This whole “Lightweight” concept is beginning to sound eerily similar to the stillborn MC40 “Special Edition.” No substance.

matt Oct 27th, 2005 Link

styling wise it sounds kind of loud…

i’m beginning to re-think my No. 4 spot in line.

RHT3 Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Aftermarket wheels, non-runflat tires, aftermarket exhaust, race battery, hollow rear sway bar. . . Very close to 88 lbs lost, without seat delete or carbon fiber. Ordering the car without a sunroof removes 57 pounds up high and heavier springs down low. Rear-seat delete, no nav system, no wife or dog in the car. . .

Jamie Oct 27th, 2005 Link

haha air con. AIR CON! get rid of it all :)

Josh Wardell Oct 27th, 2005 Link

They don’t mention anything that allows them to gain that extra horsepower. Would it just be a yet-again remapped ECU? If so then JCW owners should be able to apply the software upgrade.

tony T Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Anthracite Blue with silver scoop and contrasting roof and red mirror caps….

Did someone put Stevie Wonder in charge of the paint department….

Avitor Oct 27th, 2005 Link

My bad on the on the weight, but considering I’d get 19lb ASA JH6s anyhow, it’s not too much skin off my back. And I’d also get a sunroof anyway, extra weight or not – that’s just how I get down.

Micah Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Personally I think the color scheme will look great, and overall I really like the spec of the car as posted on Mini2 — maybe they will even bring the Recaro seats to the US! (of course there’s no way I could actually afford this car, but if I could I’d be scrambling for one)

Hulles Oct 27th, 2005 Link

but you are all forgetting a MAJOR factor here. The hoodscoop is SILVER. think of the performance gains from that alone! that right there is just something that cannot be done aftermarket i tell you whut.

DM

Avitor Oct 27th, 2005 Link

BHP may be 215, but VHP is more like 350?

David Bunting Oct 27th, 2005 Link

For those waiting for “official” confirmation

From the U.S. BMW Press Site: World Debut of the MINI Cooper S with the John Cooper Works GP Kit.

Guests of MINI United will be experiencing a very special surprise in the “Sneak Preview Box” – the world debut of the exclusive MINI Cooper S featuring the John Cooper Works GP Kit: This 160 kW (218 hp) MINI re¬duced in weight by approximately 40 kilos or 88 lb has been developed especially for the most sporting and ambitious driver, presenting the atmosphere of MINI CHALLENGE on the road.

John Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I was able to eliminate 180 pounds of fat about two weeks ago whe i signed the divorce papers. My MINI isn’t that much faster but it is a heck of lot quieter………

dillon Oct 27th, 2005 Link

…geeessszzz,John…I won’t be able to do the same,until next May…you lucky dog.

psylon Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I posted the info about the GP Spec. It came from BMW/MINI UKs’ internal website. An official presss statement will be un-embargoed on Saturday morning (9:00BST).

Easy now

GMINI Oct 27th, 2005 Link

it’s just shocking, that’s all. all the talk and conjecture, and then this.

Chris Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Dang.

Mini Lightweight = teh suck.

tanya Oct 27th, 2005 Link

This 160 kW (218 hp) MINI re¬duced in weight by approximately 40 kilos or 88 lb has been developed especially for the most sporting and ambitious driver, presenting the atmosphere of MINI CHALLENGE on the road.

or, more accurately, “…has been developed especially for the most gullible and uninformed driver…”

I think the strategic use of the word “atmosphere” says it all. :)

Bad Burro Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I think what they mean by lightweight is that MINI lightens the weight of your wallet if you decide to buy one of these…I for one am giving up my #1 spot in line, if all the above info is true.

Paul Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I’m saving my $$ for this MINI – looks like it would go much faster than this special edition :)

http://www.avweb.com/newspics/potw061143med.jpg

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

This 160 kW (218 hp) MINI re¬duced in weight by approximately 40 kilos or 88 lb has been developed especially for the most sporting and ambitious driver, presenting the atmosphere of MINI CHALLENGE on the road.

or, more accurately, “…has been developed especially for the most gullible and uninformed driver…”

Not that it really matters but I’m kinda at a loss as to why you and others are being so negative already. We don’t know the price and haven’t even seen real photos yet.

And beyond that… just because it doens’t fit what you’re looking for doesn’t mean you need to totally trash the car and the concept. Saying it’s not worth the money is one thing… calling potential owners “the most gullible and uniformed driver” is simply in poor taste.

Bryn Oct 27th, 2005 Link

As far as the UK pricing structure is concerned, this model looks set to be a run-out bargain with rarity value, too. Yes, it’s not the scary MINI dedicated MCS fans hoped for. But spec (and cost) out the current model and you’ll find that this offering would certainly please anyone already in the market for a MCS with all the JCW options (and a bit of extra heritage kudos thrown in).As the last of the top spec supercharged generation, IMO they’ll fly out of the showrooms.

GSKChicago Oct 27th, 2005 Link

2000 models, all numbered. Regardless of if it will stack up to desire. It will definitely hold value and be an excellent collector’s item. This car is not designed as an everyday driver, hence there will probably be additional aftermarket mods for the true racers in the crowd. Just my thoughts.

Allan Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Come on guys, I’m seeing so many negative comments about the Works GP. When it comes down to it, a special edition is about limited availability. Sure it may not seem liek such a performance increase, but only 2000 made? Hell, sign me up for one.

pkc Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Let’s call a spade a spade

Please don’t waste your money on this lame attempt at a lightweight. You would be much better off getting a base mcs for $21K and then spending $5K on the best aftermarket mods.

Gabe,

I really like the site but, I’m starting to think that you should get paid as a consultant for miniusa for all the hype that you’ve been feeding everyone here. Everything that mini does is not great. Criticism will keep them in tune with the customer. The “real mini guys” will see right through this thing.

vin. Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Eh…. I’m a little underwhelmed after all these months of speculation. After all the build up, I thought the lightweight MINI was going to be a stripped down firebreathing monster…. Now that I think about it, it’s kind of the same reaction I had to the Motorola ROKR–cool, but not as cool as I had hoped.

I think MINI assumes these cars will be received as being special because of what they represent– the culmination of the 1st generation of the New MINI, not because of the perceived performance gains brought on by the factory enhancements and modifications.

To that end, it seems similar or better pure performance gains can and have been acheived through the use of various aftermarket parts and modifications.

That being said, I still can’t wait to see the cars in the flesh (and the MINI Concept Frankfurt/Tokyo) when they hit the auto show circuit in the next few months.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Please don’t waste your money on this lame attempt at a lightweight. You would be much better off getting a base mcs for $21K and then spending $5K on the best aftermarket mods.

It’s just pure ignorance to try to assume every potential owner of this car is just an idiot who doesn’t know any better. I know it’s probably hard to fathom but there are people out there that have needs other than yours. There are people that frankly don’t want to mess with anything but factory built and have the money to not care what you or anyone else thinks. While I sure as hell am not one of these people, I totally respect their right to like and buy something I’ll never consider buying.

I really like the site but, I’m starting to think that you should get paid as a consultant for miniusa for all the hype that you’ve been feeding everyone here.

Wow… are we reading the same site? Hype: extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion. Well based on that definition I don’t remember “hyping” up anything other than just reporting the various rumors (almost all of which turned out to be true).

The “real mini guys” will see right through this thing.

Ah the real MINI guys…. now I see. This must be some super race of Hobbits… now it all makes sense…

chows4us Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Think you will see the recaro seats in US?

Edge Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Excuse me pkc, get off your high horse. “real mini guys” indeed. BAH!

Gabe is reporting the news. He pastes in the press releases, which he didn’t write, and he offers his own opinion, which he is ENTITLED TO.

He also offers a place for comments just like yours and mine.

Who died and made you judge of who are “real” MINI people and who aren’t? We are going to find a variety of opinions here, and I think Gabe is as fair as he can be while still being free to give his opinion.

I happen to LIKE the GP model. Am I going to buy one? No. But if I hadn’t already bought my “dream MINI”, I sure as hell would think about it.

I guess you’re going to dismiss me as not being a “real” MINI person too, huh? Yeah, right. I’ve spent a ridiculous amount of money this year on my MINI, and attending club events, and preaching the benefits of the MINI to all my friends and coworkers…

Snap out of the self-righteousness.

TBH Oct 27th, 2005 Link

WOW! Brutal reception for some pretty cool news.
Here are my suggestions Gabe, don’t post any more breaking news you darn MiniFanBoy. Keep your juicy tid bits of Mini info to yourself cause us real Mini guys are already in the know. BMW keep your special edition attempts to your dang self. Better yet keep them in Europe so we can whine and moan about not getting exactly what we want.

tbone Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Call me crazy, but my 05 MCS, with very few weight adding options, is already well under 2600 lbs. So I guess its time I did the pulley and enginer mgt upgrades! I do like the sound of those color combos however…

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Call me crazy, but my 05 MCS, with very few weight adding options, is already well under 2600 lbs. So I guess its time I did the pulley and enginer mgt upgrades! I do like the sound of those color combos however…

Actually that would be impossible… the MCS bone stock is 2678lbs.

tanya Oct 27th, 2005 Link

I really like the site but, I’m starting to think that you should get paid as a consultant for miniusa for all the hype that you’ve been feeding everyone here. Everything that mini does is not great. Criticism will keep them in tune with the customer.

Dude, chill. Gabe does not claim to be an automotive journalist and should not be held to those standards. He is an enthusiast, not an analyst. This site is clearly intended to promote MINIs, not evaluate them objectively. If you can’t take the positive spin, then get off the carousel, or you will be forcibly removed.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Dude, chill. Gabe does not claim to be an automotive journalist and should not be held to those standards. He is an enthusiast, not an analyst. This site is clearly intended to promote MINIs, not evaluate them objectively.

Wow… that’s pretty insulting. Man I really enjoy coming home after a long day and reading such veiled insults.

tanya Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Sorry – didn’t mean to insult you, Gabe. I just thought pkc was missing the point of Motoringfile. Maybe I am too(?)

Petey Oct 27th, 2005 Link

How ’bout them Chisox?

dgszweda Oct 27th, 2005 Link

Gabe,

Actually the 2678lbs is not on a bone stock Mini Cooper. My brochure says it is with standard options and gasoline.

Gabe Oct 27th, 2005 Link

2678lbs is what MINI USA lists for a Cooper S with no options (or standard options as you say).

Bryn Oct 28th, 2005 Link

Well, we can see the critics lining up in two camps: those who value the LE as a future classic – the pinnacle of the supercharged “S” – and those weekend mechanics who’d rather create their own. The latter are judging the car against what they hoped for and against what they could achieve independently; the former are judging it for the milestone (and, depending on the ultimate price-tage) a possibly bargain alternative to speccing a showcase JCW “S” while the opprtunity still exists. Given that BMW MINI are in the business of providing cars for the motoring public (including enthusiasts) rather than a business opportunity for aftermarket suppliers (valued though they are), I’d judge that they have done their job. Whether you agree depends on which camp you stand in and, as ever, whether the car suits your taste and budget. IMO it doesn’t deserve to be dismissed out of hand, particularly since it hasn’t even been unveiled and revealed yet in detail!

Rob Livesey Oct 28th, 2005 Link

You know for all you greedy people who aren’t satisfied with 215HP, there are people like myself driving a 90BHP One who dream of owning a stock S one day.

Sort of puts eveything in perpective – don’t you think?

Bryn Oct 28th, 2005 Link

Yes, Rob, but don’t lose sight of the fact that Forums are only talk. I don’t own ANY Mini, yet, but am merely a fan. By the way, when I DID own a Mini it had less power than yours: 76 bhp. It was a 1275 Cooper S and was considered hot stuff —- in 1970! Good luck.

Tony T Oct 28th, 2005 Link

But i bet the power to weight ratio was better Bryn….

Rob Livesey Oct 28th, 2005 Link

Ah but I bet it didn’t weigh anything in relation to mine. Perhaps everyone who is dissatisfied with the upcoming John Cooper Works GP and its issue of lack of drastic weightloss should get your old Cooper S? A true lightweight Mini!

stuart Oct 28th, 2005 Link

Keep stirring the pot guys, Its all we need :)

Bryn Oct 28th, 2005 Link

If I could get the hang of these new-fangled computer things, I’d post a shot of my last rally triumph (in a 998, Oselli and Janspeed tuned to a mind-blowing 85 bhp)pictured in black & white, of course! Ah, I remember it well (strokes grey beard) running out of brakes in deepest Buckinghamshire and two-wheeling over a concrete bridge. MINIs might have changed but the nutters live on….

GMINI Oct 28th, 2005 Link

first scoop from the Australian contingent on MINI2:

“the concept photos of the lightweight show a different set of wheels to the ones on the car ;-) “

jj Oct 28th, 2005 Link

tanya – I think you are missing the point. It’s auto journalism, a community, and a great resource with facts, rumors and enthusiastic discussion. A website that is alot more than a consumer or trade magazine could be. Would you rather just read “Consumer Reports”?

In other words, Gabe and the site rocks.

pkc – do you want some cheese with that w(h)ine?

Matt Oct 28th, 2005 Link

I agree the specified weight loss isn’t that impressive, but it reminds me of the E36 Lightweight M3, which now is in demand and expensive to buy, but initially was difficult for dealers to sell in 1995.

The difference was that the M motor of the lightweight were all picked by the manufacturer and built and dyno-tuned speficically to produce AT LEAST 240 horsepower.. probably more than that number…

Just some thoughts as to what BMW/MINI could be doing…

My 2005 JCW with 10.6 pound wheels, no sunroof, LSD, Xenon, and no other options I estimate weighs about 2,550 without me I think

Gabe Oct 28th, 2005 Link

My 2005 JCW with 10.6 pound wheels, no sunroof, LSD, Xenon, and no other options I estimate weighs about 2,550 without me I think

Matt… a stock MCS with no options at all weights 2678lbs.

Charlie Oct 28th, 2005 Link

Gabe, When does the cover come off the car; and when will MINI or MOtoringfile be rel;easing the “straight scoop” on the car?

tanya Oct 28th, 2005 Link

JJ: tanya – I think you are missing the point. It’s auto journalism, a community, and a great resource with facts, rumors and enthusiastic discussion. A website that is alot more than a consumer or trade magazine could be. Would you rather just read “Consumer Reports”? In other words, Gabe and the site rocks.

Agreed that Gabe and Motoringfile totally rock hard. And also that what the site represents is a great combination of “a community, and a great resource with facts, rumors and enthusiastic discussion.” Got to stop short of “auto journalism”, though. There is a lot of weighty baggage and reponsibility that goes along with real journalism, even covering the auto industry. I think MF is better off not trying to go there. I’m cool with that and I’m sure Gabe is too.

Siddhartha Oct 28th, 2005 Link

Well, let’s see, I took out my rear seat and added light wheels and tires.

seat 40 lbs weight savings with new wheels: 10.9 lbs ea. = 43.5 lbs.

So I’ve got the weight delta. Now how did they get that extra 8 BHP? New flash?

Guess I’ll pass on this one, but I’m number one in line at my dealer’s. Anyone want to buy my place?

Z4MINI Oct 28th, 2005 Link

OK…so it’s got 18″ wheels. They would typically be a quite a few lbs heavier than the stock 16″s. Let’s say 8lbs per corner or 32lbs.

Yet the car still loses 88lbs.

Sounds like that in addition to cutting a few pounds they are moving the weight lower on the car…I mean you can’t get much lower than the wheels. That’s a good thing.

Not sure what all the griping is about, but it seems that is pretty reasonable to me.

If the paint is hot and the look of the car is sufficiently sexy, it’s all going to come down to the price as to whether this car is worth it.

Mark Pierce Oct 28th, 2005 Link

I’ve had a look at costs in the UK.

If you sepcced up a Cooper S with what comes in this special, you would be paying about £24,000 so if this does make it to market for £22,000 it will be a bargain.

Unfortunately my local dealer is expecting to get 3 of these and already has 4 paid deposits!! So time to hit the phones and find a dealer that will take my deposit.

dgszweda Oct 28th, 2005 Link

[Quote]2678lbs is what MINI USA lists for a Cooper S with no options (or standard options as you say).[/Quote]

Gabe,

My manual says this, on page 143,

“Curb weight, with all optional special equipment with manual transmission = 2,678 lbs”

When I was at the Oxford plant someone there told me it also included about a quarter tank of gas as well.

Gabe Oct 28th, 2005 Link

My manual says this, on page 143,

“Curb weight, with all optional special equipment with manual transmission = 2,678 lbs”

When I was at the Oxford plant someone there told me it also included about a quarter tank of gas as well.

I don’t know what to tell you man. MINI’s internal info lists that weight as the stock curb weight. I think “all optional special equippent” is a poor choice of words for stock.

But anyway this is all besides the point. The Works GP will be 88 pounds lighter than the lightest stock MCS. So it will be 88 pounds ligher than the lightest MCS you can order from the factory.

tanya Oct 28th, 2005 Link

So obviously we’re not getting much here in terms of weight reduction or power gains. Very disappointing, no doubt. I was hoping for something in the range of 230hp and 200lbs trimmer.

But there is still the (remote) possibility that this car will represent a bargain for the “enthusiast” driver. Basically, everything you want (JCW engine, brakes, suspension and maybe seats) and nothing you don’t (no required packages or luxury options) for a good price.

Unfortunately, it seems that one of the things MINI/BMW think we don’t want is the rear seat – uh, wrong. And based on past history (ie. the MC40), they’re going to throw in some superficial aesthetic crap and make the price kookoo krazee, to use an industry phrase.

Bryn Oct 29th, 2005 Link

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: back seats are for cinemas, not performance cars!

Bryn Oct 29th, 2005 Link

Pix are on MINI 2: fugly sob, ain’t it?!?

Charles High Nov 5th, 2005 Link

Talked with Knaus today about another matter and they said they have already ’sold out’ their allotment. I first heard about the GP today.