One of the many of items that was revised for 2005 model year was the exhaust sound on the Cooper S. MINI not only altered the physical design slightly but also re-tuned the engine management software creating a few entirely new exhaust sounds that hadn’t been heard from a stock MCS or even JCW before. This has caused quite a few owners not aware of the change to ask the now familiar question, “what’s that popping?” MINIUSA relased a official service measure earlier this year on the subject which should, once and for all, answer this question:
Service Measure M 18 200 04 9/27/04
Subject: Model Year 2005 MINI Cooper S Popping From Exhaust
Complaint: The vehicle exhibits an acoustic feedback of the exhaust system under the following conditions: Engine braking in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear. Increasing engine speed above 3000 rpm while the vehicle is stationary
The popping noise from the exhaust system can also be described as a “backfire” from the engine.
Measure: Do not attempt to repair or replace any parts, this is not a failure of any driveline components. The acoustic feedback is a standard feature of the 2005 Model Year Cooper S vehicle produced as of 7/2004. This feature cannot be retrofitted to the previous model year vehicles.
<p>Am I missing something….how do you engine brake “while the vehicle is stationarly”??</p>
<p>Besides that – COOL!</p>
<p>Thanks for the post Gabe! This has been a somewhat frustrating issue with my recently delivered 2005. Though I was familiar with the change and expecting some burble and feedback, I have also been hearing a metallic clanging under heavy engine braking in 2nd and 3rd gears.</p>
<p>I really think it’s a heatshield that’s resonating, it’s definitely NOT just exhaust feedback. I expect that the acoustic energy from the exhaust can certainly cause some vibrations under there, and there is tons of heatshielding under there.</p>
<p>Was wondering if anyone else has experienced this, or if you all get a more “pure” exhaust sound? I have a service appt on Friday, and it would be nice to have some more info going in. My guess is a slighly loose heatshield.</p>
<p>I think it should read as follows:
“Engine braking in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear. Increasing engine speed above 3000 rpm while the vehicle is stationary”
Perhaps a period after “3rd gear”?</p>
<p>FYI – I added a well timed period in there following Amith’s suggestion.</p>
<p>After coming down the Autoroad at MOT2005, a friend who was driving behind me said that he thought something was wrong with my MINI. What he was hearing was the exhaust poping. I get the, “dude, something’s wrong with your car” alot from passengers.</p>
<p>The only problem I have with it is that it really difficult to sneak up on someone quietly. :-)</p>
<p>Everytime my “Moxie” burbles and pops I get a big goofie grin… If anyone wants to know the sure joy of the 05 exhaust, I actually have a spare one…</p>
<p>Interestingly the popping on the JCW kit is no more, if not a little less, aggressive than the stock pipes… at least in my experience.</p>
<p>cheers</p>
<p>I took a 2005 MCS for a spin and was really impressed with everything put especially the noise! I drive a 2003 MCS John Cooper Works and it has always made the popping, all I have to say is Bravo Mini for giving the 05 a harder noise</p>
<p>i have a 2005 mcsa and swapped out the stock exhaust for the jcw kit after two weeks. i liked both, but the stock did indeed sound like a backfire sometimes. the jcw exhaust is meatier and still burbbles, but in a really pleasing and non-metallic way. both rock – but the jcw just feels more vibey to me ; )</p>
<p>cheers – drew</p>
<p>Darn, no retrofit…LOL. I guess I have this on my ’04 JCW as well? I’ll have to listen as I don’t really recall it nor do I get the “dude something’s wrong w/ your car”…</p>
<p>I’ve noticed that before the engine and exhaust have warmed up that the sound is more metallic and “poppy”. My MINI almost sounds like a WRC car, which I like. As the system warms up, the feedback gets more smooth and burble-like. I can’t believe so many people have brought this up as a problem.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I guess I have this on my ’04 JCW as well?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The ’04 JCW MCS I tested a while back did not have this very specific sound. While it still had a nice throaty burble, it didn’t have the very specific popping sound of the 2005 MCS.</p>
<p>On my previous MINI (02), the stock exhaust was rather quiet, burbling here and there, mostly only audible from outside the car. After installing an aftermarket exhaust, I got lots more loud, popping and gurgling – it was wonderful!</p>
<p>On the new MINI (05), some of that aftermarket sound has been built in. I love it! I think it’s well worth the effort on behalf of the engineers to incorporate it into the cars. It makes the “S” more serious, more sporty, differentiating it that much more from the Cooper.</p>
<p>Now, I’ve done the one-ball exhaust mod and the popping is amplified, starting off with a few loud bursts then trailing off into long low burbling goodness… I find myself blipping the gas just to get it to make that sweet music! IMHO, this is one of the best features of the newer cars!</p>
<p>They should just include that “service measure” notice in the Owners Manual to allay all fear.
Better yet, they should tell owners in the Unauthorized manual not to ‘sniff’ the exhaust after hearing what may at first seem like “embarrassing sounds coming out the rear.”
heh heh</p>
<p>Apparently the pop/burble comes standard with the Milltek aftermarket exhaust system. Once I fitted this to my ’03 MCS (with other mods – 15%, JCW CAI, etc) the once very muted burble the car had became quite noticeable yet not overbearing. Yet another reason to drive with the windows open!</p>
<p>The “popping” is one of my favorite things about my ’05 S. I love that sound. I find myself driving with windows open and sound system off pretty frequently to listen to the engine and exhaust and smile whenever I hear the “pop, pop, pop” every so often.</p>
<p>on my 2003 cooper S i missed this popping so much, i bought a different exhaust system :D</p>
<p>Out of curiousity, is the popping due to a change just in the exhaust system for the ’05 builds?</p>
<p>Yes – this very specific popping is only found in 2005 MINIs. Some aftermarket systems have similar sounds but most are a bit deeper in their tone.</p>
<p>Before anyone else thinks I may be complaining… I like more exhaust noise and like the popping. Was just concerned that the popping I am supposed to be hearing should not include the clanging that I also hear. I do think it seems to get to sounding a little better once everything has warmed up, but it never quite goes away.</p>
<p>In any event, thanks to Mini for giving us back some noise rather than taking it away :)</p>
<p>I have an 2003 MCS and recently installed a brand new 2005 MCS exhaust onto it, hoping to get this much talked about, poping and gurgling. Alas, I did not get any more gurgling and poping. I did get shiny new exhaust tips, however :-)</p>
<p>When I first got my ’05 MCSC I too thought there was something wrong with the exhaust. I have since learned to love the sound, but often get that puzzled look from new passengers.</p>
<p>I for one, find the “popping” a pretty sweet sound… mostly because it happens when I’m driving the car (hard) like all good MCS drivers should ;^)</p>
<p>Any chance we can get a sound clip posted right at the end of the story?</p>
<p>(for the people who don’t understand it’s cool sound, hehe)</p>
<p>“Acoustic feedback” LOL I love it!!!!</p>
<p>Complaints? These sounds are like beautiful music. I love the feedback, and the compliment to the refined exhaust note, that these “pops” provide. Here, here to MINI.</p>
<p>“This feature cannot be retrofitted to the previous model year vehicles.”</p>
<p>LOL…that cracked me :)</p>
<p>The popping sound was a great addition to the cars’ caracter and uniqueness.</p>
<p>The exhaust “popping” on my ’05 is among one of my favorite features about the car. Everytime I hear it is like “ear Candy” or something…sweet!</p>
<p>My ’04 MCs stock exhaust was dead silent by comparison. Kudos to MINI for re-tuning the stock exhaust in ’05.</p>
<p>Who needs an aftermarket exhaust in a ’05 MCS anyway? Seems like a waste of money to me.</p>
<p>When I test drove the 05 MCSC I heard the popping as I decelerated getting off the expressway. I loved it as soon as I heard it. It never occurred to me that there might be something wrong. It just sounded too good to be a problem. I’m sure many 05 owners are like me and drive without the stereo on so that they can hear the sweet music coming from the back of the car.</p>
<p>Of course instead of just posting an audio file Motoringfile could do their first podcast! (especially since podcasts are now available via iTunes).</p>
<p>I like the popping so much on my 05 MCSC that I may have to re-consider getting the JCW kit if this sound is greatly diminished. Hmm – extra power or cool sounds? Both make driving fun. Anyone have a comparison of JCW sound vs stock?</p>
<p>“I like the popping so much on my 05 MCSC that I may have to re-consider getting the JCW kit if this sound is greatly diminished. Hmm – extra power or cool sounds? Both make driving fun. Anyone have a comparison of JCW sound vs stock?”</p>
<p>Yeah. The JCW sounds great! Don’t worry. Take the power, get the sound too. Come off the gas at speed and listen to the pops as it backs off! Suddenly you’re back in the 60’s listening to a birdcage Maserati approaching a corner at the old Nurburgring, or your neighbor’s Healey 3000 as he backs off coming down the street after a hot run. Coolness!</p>
<p>I love the ‘popping’ sound, but my MCSC also exhibits a metalic pinging sound at times. I can understand the ‘popping; being normal, but not the metalic pinging. Another thing is that my ‘popping’ tends to occur more when I step on the clutch during an upshift, usually when shifting up to 2nd and 3rd.</p>
<p>The maintenance shop foreman at my dealer mentioned that the popping was specifically programmed into the software. It has to do with whether a combination of the fuel and air, or air alone, is shut off to introduce engine braking. If the air alone is shut off, the suction on the fuel system is at its greatest right at the cutoff moment,so you have a little extra fuel injected and detonated, causing the pleasant burble. If you shut down fuel and air both, there is no spare fuel and no burble.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the expulsion of excess fuel with air cutoff only causes the hydrocarbon emissions to go up, so it has been controlled out of the earlier cars to a certain degree. The shop foreman explained that the 2005s have fuel and air cutoff and have had their engine software mapped differently to create this pleasant little audible effect without running up the emissions too badly.</p>
<p>2nd Mini</p>
<p>No fair – what about us MC owners?
We could use a little “burble” too.
Since it is mostly a function of the ECU air/fuel ratios, too bad MINI dealers can’t give us an enable option.
I’m sure that would be more cost effective than the JCW Sound Kit. (cost TBA – but expected to be rich)</p>
<p>My Miltek has the exact same burble/popping sound. (Only throatier.)</p>
<p>This seems to confirm that there is a software associated cause, as it is almost duplicated when the hardware is changed.</p>
<p>I know JCW sounds great but does it keep this fun burbling? Doesn’t JCW involve a change in the ECU/software? What does this do to the sound?</p>
<p>Huh?? See answer to your post above. My ’05 JCW burbles and pops a LOT more than my ’04.</p>
<p>It is definitely software related, when the cars were first released at the dealer we wondered if this was normal, we were assured it was and it was a function of the air/fuel mixtures and updated breathing on the cars while at training for new models. It is most definitely not retrofitable, which is a shame. I happen to think it sounds awesome, but I get a ton of questions as to whether or not it is “normal” behavior. Especially on the S convertibles with the top down, sounds incredible.</p>
<p>I just love this sound. Its addicting. I always get someone in the car who says ” I think there is something wrong with your car, what is that noise”. Im like oh thats the signature MCS exhaust sound, and they never believe me. I wasn’t aware that it was tuned differently than previous models.</p>
<p>I have a “spare” 05 exhaust on my front patio if anyone in the greater Santa Barbara wants it…(I kept it after getting the JCW install and haven’t found any interested parties…)</p>
<p>I get the metallic pinging too…</p>
<p>This is a little off subject. My ’04 gets a krackling sound when I park, not always though.</p>
<p>Siddartha – I was hoping for a comparison of a stock ’05 MCS and a ’05 JCW MCS. The ’04 supposedly does not have the same sound so a comparison of an ’05 JCW and an ’04 isn’t quite right. No big deal. Sorry to clutter the forum…</p>
<p>I just love that popping sound!!!</p>
<p>the sound of the ’05 MCs is intoxicating, i too leave the windows down adn the HKS offm just to hear the popping!</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Of course instead of just posting an audio file Motoringfile could do their first podcast! (especially since podcasts are now available via iTunes).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well that would be nice wouldn’t it 🙂 Actually I’ve already done a couple MF Podcasts, I just never posted them. At the time I was having some bandwidth issues so I decided at the last second to not share the link publicly. That issue should be resolved now so I’m looking into it again.</p>
<p>who would complain about that beautiful sound?</p>
<p>I did data logging and found the cause – on sharp off-throttle movement, the ECU pulls timing to -30 to -40 deg.</p>
<p>Strange I have an 04 MCS and switched the stock exhaust (super quiet, I don’t really remember much if any burble) out to a Miltek cat-back, a JCW intake and a 15% pulley and definately notice more burbling with engine braking (no software change)… but perhaps it was there all along the freeer/louder exhaust just allowed to be more audible.</p>
<p>Erik</p>
<p>love her “backfire” sound as well…but i cant help but to wonder if this is adding a great deal of wear and tear on the exhaust?</p>
<p>I would also like to hear someone compare the pops and burbles heard in the stock 05 MCS to the 05 JCW. I have just bought a slightly used JCW exhaust (off of a 05 MCS Works car that the owner put a Borla Street on instead)and am waiting to get it installed.<br />
Please tell me that I won’t lose any of that great MCS sound if I replace the stock exhaust withe the JCW one!</p>
<p>Coming from several straight pipe V8’s to my 05 MCS I grinned when I heard the little pops. I needed more. At 1,000 miles addded a Magna Flow and a Pro Mini CAI. Talk about a Harmonic Convergence–the whine of the SC and the Basso Profundo of the Magna Flow “Trumpets”. SWEET. The HK rarely is on.</p>
<p>I will tend to let off the gas in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, purposefully just so I can hear the acoustics. Sure is music to my ears! Wife thinks I am nuts though…..</p>
<p>My translation of the “official MINIUSA” explanation is…..
When we solved the surge/pulsing problem with the 03/04 MCS model years, we never could get the engine management system perfectly right. Therefore, the fuel to air ratio is too rich on the overrun. (i.e. 3000+ rpm, in gear, foot off accelerator, coasting against engine compression). So, we decided to call it an advantage for a bettter fun factor.<br />
The new engine and turbo-charger in the 07 will not have the “feature”; because we can solve the problem with the turbo.</p>
<p>I love the popping sound .. If I want a quiet exhaust car I would have bought the Accord or Camry. Why nobody complain about the stupid cupholder?</p>
<p>Anyone know if a ECU reflash like GIAC will elimiate the noise? then I’m not doing it. :)</p>
<p>How is this noise different from that nifty burbling you get on overrun with certain aftermarket exhausts? I’ve always kind of loved that…</p>
<p>GIAC and MTH does not effect it, they both retain the timing pull on off-throttle. They <em>could</em> eliminate if they so programmed it though.</p>
<p>My 05 MC Cabrio makes the popping sound. I was told by my MA that all 05s were programmed to make the sound.So I don’t think it’s unique to the MCS.</p>
<p>like really who doesn’t want a little of backfire.. please its soi god damn beautiful. jaja. if u dont like it change ur exhaust!</p>
<p>I have an 03 and there was absolutely no popping under any conditions. It sucked quite frankly. I replaced my exhaust with an aftermarket UUC one and it burbles so much you would think my exhaust is having a complete conversation!</p>
<p>I’ve test driven an 05 S and I must say I’m glad they added the burbling so you don’t have to get your own exhaust. However, the stock 05 S makes more of a popping noise than a true burbling. I would still probably change the exhaust on a new one.</p>
I for one cannot stand popping or whatever, makes the car sound cheap and defective. I have a 2003 and thank goodness it doesn’t exhibit this. Call me strange but it’s far too boy racer for my taste, and I’m not conservative in the least. 🙂
Cheers.
J\
anyone know who sells the “single pipe” exhaust system for an “05 S and how it sounds?
I love the sound of the 05 MCS exhaust. I wish my 04 sounded as good!
Amen to all those who commented and appreciate the warm and fuzzy sounds of engines performing as they were intended to. Every burble, pop-pop-pop gives me mondo goosebumps and makes me feel ALIVE!!!What’s there not to like?
<p>I’m in the minority, in that I don’t like it. It’s not that it has to be a bad thing, but if anything, I would have preferred a more subtle “burble” than a “pop”. I don’t know if an aftermarket exhaust would address this, but to me, the stock system with it’s popping just doesn’t sound right. As it is, I wish this “feature” could easily be removed.</p>
<p>This popping is one of the worst thing mini could have done to a stock Cooper S. Many people including myself think this is childish. If you want to make your car backfire (pop) you should have to upgrade your exhaust or something. I think this is going to be a big problem for Mini in the future. </p>
<ul>
<li>Marketing 101 –
Make add ons for any item your selling (mini)
Find your market and what they like (mini enthusiasts, young drivers and many people like the sound)
*The option (what to add some horsepower and make your Mini sound like original $1,265)</li>
</ul>
<p>Sorry, I am just fed up with the popping sound.</p>