Getrag's All Wheel Drive MINI In-Depth

Sections: MF Feature Jun 29th, 2005 79 Comments

mini

Last year Getrag showed off it’s all-wheel drive MINI prototype at several industry only events throughout the world. There they not only demonstrated the car first hand, but delivered test data that demonstrated the benefits of the Getrag AWD system known as Twinster. The system has been designed for use on a number of different platforms and theoretically for a number of different automotive manufacturers. These presentations were mainly meant to sell the system to OEM manufacturers. However what makes this so fascinating for MINI owners is the fact that Getrag exclusively used a MINI Cooper S for all of their drivetrain testing.

MotoringFile has recently obtained this test data (in the form of a PDF presentation) that was passed out at one of these events. While the presentation uses industry jargon that may be a bit over the head of some of our readers, it does give us an overall impression of the performance that the AWD Twinster MINI is capable of. Interestingly they not only compare the Twinster to the normal front wheel drive MINI but to several other AWD configurations as well. There’s even a rear wheel drive version that is referenced!

mini

The presentation starts out with a simple question. Why a MINI for demonstration purposes. Here’s Getrags answer:

FWD with East-West Engine

Cooper S stands for Freudeam Fahren (Fun to drive)

More power than suitable for FWD ( >160 HP )

No AWD available

Package VERY tight = 4WD Version is challenging

Benchmark for Vehicle Dynamics

Objective comparison of different driveline configurations in one vehicle

Influence on traction

Influence on vehicle dynamics

How much improvement does each system deliver?

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the winner was the Twinster AWD setup. Here’s their conclusion:

The TWINSTER showed the best performance of all tested systems:
Best cornering performance by Active Yaw function

when cornering

lowest steering angle
highest Lateral Acceleration

best handling performance

noticeable reduction of steer in understeering under acceleration while cornering

Best Traction performance by:

using dynamical weight increase on the primarily driven axle during acceleration

on split-µ the system acts like a combination of axle locking differential and hang on coupling

So for those that have been wanting to know the ins and outs of the Getrag AWD system, here’s your chance. You can download the entire presentation in PDF format below:

[ Getrag AWD Study ] .8 MB

Of course none of this officially means that (A) we will eventually see an AWD MINI or (B) this will be the system that is used. But all that said, BMW has partnered with Getrag for years when it comes to the drivetrain area of it’s cars. Further, this system is well engineered and very much performance oriented, both prerequisites for BMW and MINI.

(It may help in reading the presentation that the “µ” symbol stands for grip.)

Written By: Gabe

RB

AWD would be a very kool addition.
Allan

AWD is nice, but a RWD is even cooler..

Lets get sideways..
Kurt Gillespie

4WD with a John Cooper Works kit would just be the **!
http://www.myminiparts.com Pete/MyMini

Do we smell another Monte Carlo attempt cooking up here? Hmmmmm…
http://www.lawrenceotoole.com/ Lawrence

AWD + JCW + ultralight parts = PermaGrin
https://secure.mawebcenters.com/wc/sd_websites/spirit2/ O(=^=)O Capn “Freudeam Fahren”

“Freudeam Fahren”!!!!!!!!!
https://secure.mawebcenters.com/wc/sd_websites/spirit2/ O(=^=)O Capn \\\”Freudeam Fahren\\\”

“seven at one blow”!
Phil aka Greatbear

BUT! Can it be retrofitted? X-D
Ian F

Pretty cool. I wonder how difficult it would be to retrofit such a system to an existing MINI… it looks as if th PTU simply bolts onto the existing transmission… would need to swap out a different exhaust system … mount the rear differential… Hmm..
http://www.jwardell.com/mini/ Josh Wardell

I look forward to the day in my dreams when this is a bolt-on kit!

Hey Gertrag do you need any beta testers? :)
dgszweda

Take the Twinster and add the twincharged and what do you get? One of the fastest cars on the planet. 400hp in a 4WD car with 2600lbs. Yeah!
Aniawn

AWD + Lightweight MCS + JCW = A warm fuzzy sensation inside me ;D
rbm4

I think that MINI should find a way to compete in the World Rally Championship. That would be SWEET!
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

My question is this:

How many of you would consider buying a AWD MCS that starts out around $24,000? Would you option it up like your current MCS – IE – would you pay more than $30,000 for a car with the same power output as a regular MCS when you could get a FWD JCW for a couple of grand more?

Just curious.
Scott

Gabe – if an AWD MCS was available, I’d buy one. I’d still option it up about the same – JCW + 3 pks. Probably lose a little bit of power in drivetrain loss, but I’d be able to better use the power of a JCW.
http://www.motoringphotography.com David Bunting

I’d much rather have an AWD MCS at $24k (optioned to about $28k to $30k) than a $30k Lightweight FWD version that has had 400 lbs removed from it at the cost of its daily driver ability.
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

Okay… then how about this scenario:

AWD JCW MINI Cooper S starting at $30,000.

Follow-up: At what point does a car like this with a high base price go against what the brand stands for?
mataku

never… more is better =)

I mean, they low cost options are still available. If anything this would blur the lines between the luxury cars and everyman’s car.
kimgee

That is why Evos and STi are in 4-Doors, with a trunk, and 5 seats…

Ofcause, if AWD JCW Mini is available @ 30K, some people will buy it. But will the demand enough for BMW? I dont know, but how many JCW Mini are over 35K (out the door) these days?
Greg W

“Hang on a minute lads, I’ve got an idea!” Perhaps some enterprising Tuning company will do a deal with Getrag and make a conversion kit – wishful thinking? Of course a 4WD Mini was made by John Cooper, and when he crashed this it nearly killed him, and lead to his withdrawal of the Cooper team from Formula One. Read about John Cooper’s Twini at this link; http://groups.msn.com/MiniFanClub/thetwini.msnw
Kurt Gillespie

I think a $30k JCW + 4WD MCS would be a great addition to the line… it would raise the mini image I think rather than drop it by putting in a car that is 50% more expensive then they currently sell…

I would LOVE to see MCS’s start dominating the racing circuit… (just have to pick the right tires so you can actually get to racing, hehe)
Robert

“Is it retrofittable?”

Obviously it is..

They didn’t install it on a 2007 MINI. Just takes time and money….
Chris M

Gabe raises an excellent question. My take is that an AWD JCW Mini Cooper S costing $30K would be a fine addition, as long as cheaper/simpler choices were still available. If production line costs made this impossible, then I’d prefer the current lineup to a lineup with, say, just Mini Coopers and one premium model that cost nearly $30K.

The best plan for the customer would be a product line that includes models like today’s at similar prices, an AWD MCS without JCW, and then finally the full monty.

Part of the ‘giant killer’ reputation of the old Mini (as well as the new) was how much performance one could get for the money, not just small size and cute looks. (Take a look at the current issue of Automobile magazine, for example.) Take that aspect away and you’ve killed the appeal of the Mini for a lot of people.
http://www.squirty.com/minis kurt collins

I would so buy one of these! It would make me never miss my WRX STi ever again! :-)

The pricing difference between rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive in the BMW 3 series models is a good benchmark of what I’d expect to pay for an all-wheel drive MINI.
dgszweda

Gabe,

I think $24,000 would be a steal. At $30,000 with 210hp it would still be a very good deal. Remember the R32 (the only other 4WD hatch) sold for more.
KE3VP

Gabe, do you think a JCW MCS w/ 4WD could be a real contender in the european performance rallies?
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

I’m not sure if the current car would comply with the minimum length rules for some rally series.

As far as the WRC – I would highly doubt that BMW is interested in sinking serious cash it to yet another motorsport series since they just bought into F1 to the tune of over $300 million. Unless of course the FIA can turn WRC into a much lower cost racing series… which I somehow doubt.

All that said I think MINI will soon need to get serious about racing. The brand could always use a bit more soul.
Ralph

I think $24,000 would be a steal. At $30,000 with 210hp it would still be a very good deal.

========================================

$30,000 for a Mini Cooper is way to high. If I were going to spend 30k I’d buy a BMW 3 Series, or an Audi or a fully loaded PT Crusier. I enjoy my Mini, but no way would I pay 30K for a Mini (add dealer markup, Tax & Lic and it will cost almost 34k). The whole point of Mini Coopers are quality – Low Cost – Safety – & fun to drive.

Once the 30k level is reached where will BMW stop with the price increases? The “Got to have regardless what it costs” atittude of consumers is what causes Automakers and Dealers to get any price they want regardless if the product is worth it or not.
dgszweda

Ralph,

This is no different than the VW Golf and very good global selling hatchback. A low end Golf competes in price point with the Cooper (but not performance wise), and their AWD R32 goes for $33,000. So this would be similiar and I think it would compete. The other thing is that in the rest of the world hatchbacks are hot, especially hi-performance hatchbacks. And $32,000 for an AWD hatchback is very competitive with the others out there (VW R32, Audi A3 Quattro…)
Wierd Bob

I would not have a problem paying a premium for an AWD version. OK so its alot of money to pay for a small car but its not so much money to pay for incredible performance. How much would you have to pay to get that performance and fun from a premium car? I reckon a JCW AWD could beat the pants of an M3 in anything other than a straight line top speed race.
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

If I were going to spend 30k I’d buy a BMW 3 Series, or an Audi or a fully loaded PT Crusier.

That last one is just a joke right??
Paul C.

Oh god Gabe, here we go again with the R32 comparo…… People don’t talk about a car you don’t know anything about, R32. Everybody here hates when people become misinformed about the Mini, well I see a lot of the same with the R32. I DRIVE both a Mini and an R32, very different cars and I could see how a Mini AWD can easily become $33K plus with the options that the R32 has. Let’s just leave it at an AWD Mini would be absolutely KICK ASS and go from there. Hope BMW makes it, NO FLAME THROWING INTENDED!!! :)
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

I didn’t start it :)
Brian

PT What???
Ralph

If I were going to spend 30k I’d buy a BMW 3 Series, or an Audi or a fully loaded PT Crusier.

That last one is just a joke right??

========================================

PT What???

=======================================

A joke? Well, could be. :-)

The intent of my comment/post was to say not everyone can afford 30K+. For me that would be a stretch (a big stretch). My ’04 Mini cost me 23K with most of the options I wanted, which was 3k more then I wanted to pay, but it was still within my budget.

I had to drop some options that I wanted to get it to that price. (Multi function Steering wheel, On-board Computer)

There are always people who can afford 30k+, but again make the Mini too pricey and it becomes limited to selected groups of comsumers. Sure if AWD version were an option and a non AWD was the standard with all other options still avaiable that would be ok, but as I’ve seen in the last two years Mini has slowly increased the base price and either eliminated options or made more items an option instead of standard equipment.

I could see that happenening with future Mini’s if and when a AWD is brought out. BMW/Mini will have a regular/standard Mini, but it will have mininal standard equipment and everything else will be options (and limited too). If a person wants more options you’d have to buy the AWD edition. They’ve already done that with the Coupe vs the S Cooper.

No S-Lites for Coupe, no body color for dash for Coupe, certain body colors not available for Coupe.

For those that want an AWD great, I just hope Mini keeps it’s base model affordable with lots of standard equipment and lots of options/choices available.

One final comment/quesiton. With Mini’s great handling, ability to corner and responsive steering is an AWD really needed? With DSC and Traction Control available option why the need for a AWD Mini?
Scott

Ralph – have you ever driven a JCW MCS? DSC just causes the car to bog down because it is so easy to smoke the tires. Put AWD in a JCW MCS and it would be absolutely awesome.

And I agree with you – they’ve got to keep a entry level well-equipped model at a reasonable price. More appeal across a broader range. The more MINIs on the road – the better. Get rid of the road barge SUVs.
Allan

One final comment/quesiton. With Mini’s great handling, ability to corner and responsive steering is an AWD really needed? With DSC and Traction Control available option why the need for a AWD Mini?

===================================

Ralph: Did you read and understand the powerpoint presentation? I don’t know about you, but the prformance figures of the twinster make my mouth water. Theres an obvious huge advantage and permagrin factor we could experience with this technology. And yeah, there are lots of times in my 05 MCS where I can’t keep my front wheels from roasting and don’t want to deal with the bogging down effect of the electronic nanny (DSC). Love my MCS but bring on the AWD!
Ralph

Ralph – have you ever driven a JCW MCS? DSC just causes the car to bog down because it is so easy to smoke the tires. Put AWD in a JCW MCS and it would be absolutely awesome.

======================================== Did you read and understand the powerpoint presentation?

========================================

I have never driven a MCS nor a MC/S with JCW. Yes I did read/view the PDF PP Presentation. Did I understand it? Well to be honest some of it was Greek to me.

I do understand the advantages of AWD and what it can do for a vehicle.

I have nothing against Mini bringing out an AWD version, so long as they don’t neglect the base MC.

Since I live in CA (Bay Area) I don’t drive in snow, I use my MC for City driving and straight road Fwy/Hwy driving (to work). I don’t do much winding/curve road driving. For me to have an AWD MC (or other vehicle) is not advantagous or worth spending 30K for.

True Scott, Mini needs to have a broad range of Mini’s. They do in GB, but not in the USA. I guess they think having various models will not sell in U.S.

So for all those folks and Mini enthusiasts that really want an AWD model I hope Mini brings one out.

The more options & models the better for all of us.
Kaelaria

For a few grand more I would trade in my 05 MCS in a heartbeat! I LOVE my car but that would be the best!
Golf_Lover

“This is no different than the VW Golf and very good global selling hatchback. A low end Golf competes in price point with the Cooper (but not performance wise), and their AWD R32 goes for $33,000. So this would be similiar and I think it would compete. The other thing is that in the rest of the world hatchbacks are hot, especially hi-performance hatchbacks. And $32,000 for an AWD hatchback is very competitive with the others out there (VW R32, Audi A3 Quattro…)”

You are wrong… You can get a Golf cheaper than a mini with the 1.8T motor spend $500 by adding a chip and make roughly 200whp with 230lbs tq to the wheels and still only spend $18,000!
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

Spoken like someone who hasn’t a clue…
Mark_Civic Type R

I think golfs are horrendous to drive, apart from the r32 as i’ve owned many in the past.

i dont know about what u guys have in america, but i drive a civic type r, because of the weight difference, i waste the r32 in a straight line upto maybe 100mph.

so all you golf enthusiasts need to try something new, not an overweight lard ass golf that handles like my grandmothers zimmerframe.

Ive seen the light with regards to the civic type r (200bhp standard FWD), yet the mini cooper s works that we have in london, seems to beat the type r all round.

And with regards to chipping a standard golf to get 200hp, that is a load of rubbish, yet if its possible, id still rather drive a taxi, cos they can at least turn.

For a price comparison for u guys, the honda civic type r is Ã‚Â£16000 on the road, the golf R32 is Ã‚Â£32000, and the JCW mini is Ã‚Â£24000.

from all this info, i would definitely take the JCW mini over anything. but maybe need some insight into everyday use b4 i part my civic in?

is the supercharger reliable? and does it really handle that good? no understeer?

lemme know guys, cos i’m actually drooling over the thought of a JCW right now.

Mark (London UK)
Mark_Civic Type R

oh another thing, is there any power lag across the rev range?

sorry for ignorance

Mark
http://motoringfile.com Gabe

Mark – FYI – the US doesn’t get the extra fast Civic Type R that you do.
Andrew

I want one… a high powered AWD Mini to take on an Evo… bring it on!!!
Luke K

AWD MINI? Definitly one of the best ideas yet. With the new engine due out in 2007 (turbo anyone?), an AWD MINI would be the ultimate rally car, not that it’s not a good one already. More Power + AWD + light weight = much laughter at the finish line when the new eclipse realizes that no car will ever bow to it ( the new eclipse, with the v6, does 0-60 in just about the same time the 160hp Cooper S does . . . imagine how much ownage an AWD Mini would have on that piece)
Paul

anyway… AWD in a cooper would be grerat. I have a 2004 cooper S and live in the mtns. it would sure help in the snow. The diffrence between a 330xi and 330ci is only about $2000. I would gladly pay that for AWD in the cooper. (mabey twice that) The cooper would need some more power to deal with the mass though. A 2.0L engine would help. Better yet just make the body from aluminum and composites to offset the added mass. If BMW builds an AWD Cooper Ill buy 2.
Paul

hey mark, I dont know what they are charging in the uk for R32s but i could have got one here in the us for $28000 and last I checked the british pound was about $1.70 so Im confused. also I paied $26000 for my 04 Cooper S much less than 24000 pounds. Also if your racing R32s in your civic and winning….they are not racing back!
Dan Cameron

Is the Twinster system for sale? Because if so I’d buy one in a heartbeat. ~Dan
Jay

Can you say “losing wrinkles?”

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