From MINI Press:
In the first half of the year, 108,114 MINI brand vehicles were delivered to customers worldwide (previous year: 95,176/+13.6%). Growth became even more dynamic in June with sales rising by 22.9% to 19,640 units (previous year: 15,979). Since it was launched four years ago MINI has broken one record after another, said Ganal. The product mix continues to be high-grade: more than one-quarter of the customers (26.5%) decided in the first half of 2005 on the top model MINI Cooper S, just under half on the MINI Cooper (46.0%) and a good quarter (27.5%) on the MINI One.
<p>No surprises in terms of rising sales, but for June growth to be up by 23% is amazing.</p>
<p>Remember June of 2004 was the last production month of the 2004 model year. Many people waited until late July or August (depending on their location in the world) to get a 2005 model once the became available.</p>
<p>is it too late to relabel the headline on this article to:</p>
<p>MINI brand further diluted</p>
<p>Why do you say it’s diluted?</p>
<p>please read my past comments following some past articles on this web site that announced increased MINI sales</p>
<p>i have eloquently and accurately portrayed, in great detail in those comments, using great examples how increased MINI sales damages the MINI marquee and dilutes the charm and interest in MINIS. </p>
<p>I was bashed for speaking facts by many on this site.. but there were a few that see basic math</p>
<p>more sales = more common</p>
<p>more common = brand dilution</p>
<p>brand dilution = marquee damage</p>
<p>i gave a steallar example of the lowly corvette.. a car basically bought by middle age to old men trying to re-live their youth and how vettes are seen so often vette car clubs have basically become vette owners applauding one another, why the general car show public looks with disdain and contempt on the vette, mostly in part due to the incredible brand dilution of the name, caused by high volume of vette sales.
the corvette is a horrible riding car and that fact is not even taken into account on the demise of the corvette among OTHER than corvette guys..</p>
<p>well i do not want to repeat my great logic here.. i encourage you to read some past articles on this site and find my comments which further detail how foolish it is to applaud increase MINI sales.</p>
<p>thank you for your time.</p>
<p>jimohio, </p>
<p>who really cares, except for those of you mini snobs. way too much pride for your own good. the brand is very strong. what you speak of doesn’t happen until supply overstrips demand. or the vehicle is redesigned and the value does not equal the product. have you seen a fire sale on mini’s yet? </p>
<p>have you driven the new vette? </p>
<p>you can’t compare the mini to any other car. national days supply is 8 days, in it’s 4th model year on sale here! bay area dealers are still getting $2500 over list. </p>
<p>dude, quit trollin, you’re making yourself look stupid.</p>
<p>Gabe,
Do what you want to this post or my right to post; but it needs to be said and I’m going to say it.</p>
<p>JimOhio,
You are just upset that busty blonds no longer throw themselves over the hood of your car. Get over yourself and over your self-centered narrow minded opinions. Your “Facts” are anecdotal at best. Your “steallar examples” are just plain misinterpretation. The Vette still turns heads, people may not run over to see it, but there eye is still caught.</p>
<p>please take note of differing conversation skills</p>
<p>me: uses facts, examples</p>
<p>them: call me names</p>
<p>i know for a fact that vette at car shows go unoticed by other than other vette people.. </p>
<p>do you want more facts?</p>
<p>when the MINI first came out, it was
THE HIT of car shows.
with the brand dilution, most car shows will not even let a MINI in..</p>
<p>well correction, they can come in, but they have to park in spectator parking, next to ford probes, chevy corsicas, dodge aspens, and dodge intrepids.</p>
<p>why are so many here opposed to hearing the truth and resort to calling me a troll for my speaking of facts.</p>
<p>that is puzzling</p>
<p>Jim – your views have been thoroughly trounced in other posts and I think people are frankly tired of making you look bad. </p>
<p>BTW you’ve still go quite a few comments to answer to from weeks ago…</p>
<p>Jim you have “Facts”. Let’s see them, you must have done the polling, sent out the questionares, talked to ALL of the people that ignored the Vette. Let us all see this scientific report that you have done. Untill you release the report you have, in full detail, it’s all anecdotal, JUST STORIES. And yes I have read all of your postings and the only fact I have found is that you like(no) NEAD to be the center of attention and have the only right opinion, eithere here or at a car show. POST YOUR REPORT or go away</p>
<p>Gabe: Any idea how these numbers compare to the initial 2002 production? I imagine the growth in monthly prodction has been significant.</p>
<p>do you know how silly it is to see people applaud increasing sales</p>
<p>well i found one of my posts under a story about BMW’S investment in MINI.
it could have been missed as the headline did not reference sales per se.</p>
<p>The corvette path is one we do NOT want to follow.. i go to a lot of car shows with my austin mini.. I used to take my BMW MINI but the austin is much cooler and the MINI is not welcome as it once was due to dilution.. </p>
<p>i know for a fact.. i see it at every single car cruise.. unless someone is a vette fan (for there is no good reason why one is) but vette fans are the ONLY ones that look at vettes.. in fact, vettes are scorned, mocked, riducules by most car cruise fans.. remember what makes a car cruise spectator stop and look at a car and smile.. main reason is having a car that is different.. not just different in putting lipstick on a pig like a srt-4 is to a dodge neon or a mistu evo is to a lancer by sticking a big wing on it or by putting a coffee can exhaust pipe on a honda civic..</p>
<p>i guarantee you vettes are mocked.. hardly even noticed (besides other vette fans). i hear, i see, i hear the commments of car cruise fans demeaning the vette as in “oh gee, another corvette, ho hum)”.. </p>
<p>so if you want to follow that path the vette is taken of selling a lot of cars, watering down the brand, i am afraid the smile factor for the MINI will only lessen more..</p>
<p>you will now i am sure bash me for saying these things.. trust me.. i wish this was not going to play out.. i wish the MINI name and car would continue to ge unique.. but with sales “soaring” and many readers getting on here all giddy appluading “soaring sales”, i am afraid many of you are clueless on preserving the MINI name.. if you were informed like i am about this topie, you would not get on here and shout with excitement when MINI sales “soar</p>
<p>David,
In case Gabe is busy at the moment …</p>
<p>From BMW Group 2002 end of year report: <em>The MINI brand was also strong: 144,000 vehicles were sold in 2002 – the MINI was launched in the previous year, when sales reached 24,980 units</em></p>
<p>From BMW Group 2003 end of year report: <em>The MINI success story also continued in 2003. Altogether, more than 175,000 MINI vehicles were sold worldwide</em></p>
<p>From BMW Group 2004 end of year report: <em>Demand for the MINI is also still robust … Sales rose from the already high level of last year (176,465) by 4.5% to 184,357 units</em></p>
<p>And this year, first quarter <em>52,694 MINI brand cars were delivered to customers</em>; can’t find anything newer than that but sales obviously continue to do well, world wide.</p>
<p>god…. I just had to wonder if Jim was still at it. I also love that a post about the rise of MINI sales get posted every two weeks. =)</p>
<p>Ian: thanks!</p>
<p>Based on the trend, if we project 2005 to say 195,000, round that up to 200k and the 2002 figures up to 150k (to make the math easy), then total production is up by fully 1/3 compared to 2002 levels. Now that’s impressive!</p>
<p>Beat me to it Ian – thanks.</p>
<p>SSooooooooo JimOhio,</p>
<p>I’m guessing that you have not gotten around to the scientific study of your hypotheses of the “MINI brand dilution” So the fact is all that you have is theory, conjecture, and anecdotes. No real facts!!!</p>
<p>So now I must rename you……”Jim,I will give you your opinion when I want it, Ohio”</p>
<p>I’m tired of having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. So be little, petty, and smallminded and take the last word.</p>
<p>¡Basta! Enough people! Stop encouraging JimOhio. Ignore him and he will go away. He just dilutes threads with things that no one cares about.</p>
<p>¡Por fin!</p>
<p>JimOhio writes</p>
<p>“when the MINI first came out, it was THE HIT of car shows. with the brand dilution, most car shows will not even let a MINI in.. well correction, they can come in, but they have to park in spectator parking, next to ford probes, chevy corsicas, dodge aspens, and dodge intrepids.”</p>
<hr />
<p>Jim, I’m not sure which Car shows you attend or in which states, but here in the San Francisco and San Jose area the Int’l Car show in 2004(Nov) and 2005 (Jan) Mini had the Center Stage with LOTS of people looking at, sitting in, and hanging out at the Mini show display. </p>
<p>The MINI’s had so many people it was almost impossilbe to get inside a Mini.</p>
<p>Mini was NOT Parked or displayed in the back, around the corner or in some forgotten section of the show. It was center stage.</p>
<p>Again I don’t know which City/State Car shows you are attending. </p>
<p>I kind of understand what JimOhio is concerred about. The over production of the Mini. Which is what happenened to the PT Cruiser. That over production caused the long term value to go down. The difference between PT and MINI is that you have to order a MINI and it takes anywhere from 3 to 6+ months to get one. </p>
<p>Mini dealers do not have huge number of MC or MCS just sitting on the lot. </p>
<p>Now granted after some years of people trading in their MINI’s for newer models there may be a surplus of used Mini’s but that’s going to happen with any car.</p>
<p>One other thing I forgot to add regarding MINI vs PT sales & overproduction.</p>
<p>While MINI sales are up, in the US MINI will not become the “family” car or the Toyotas, VW and Hondas. </p>
<p>MC & MCS are and will remain a speciality car. MINI’s will sell well in certain cities/States/markets, but the overwheleming population will not become MINI buyers. They are too much into the Pirus, Hondas, and still into SUV’s and crossovers.</p>
<p>MINI will NOT become diluted. So long as MINI/BMW keep the quality, continue to improve reliabity, keep the price affordable, offer lots of options(very important) MINI will retain it’s value for a long time, just like BMW’s. </p>
<p>Of course this is just my opinion.</p>
<p>In the “2006 Special Edition Website” News on this website I posted the 2006 prices for the Mini (regular and Speical Edition models) in Germany. It didn’t post to well so I’m posting the link to the Story on “Auto Motor & Sport” German Magazine.</p>
<p>The article is in German but the prices (In Euro’s) are listed.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/85443" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/85443</a></p>
<p>These sales numbers seem funny to me, because they aren’t really sales numbers but production numbers. It shouldn’t be sales is up, it should be production is up. Sales could be up 50% more this month if they could just make more. When there aren’t any cars in dealership showrooms and there is still a month long wait, than this isn’t based on sales, but a lag in production.</p>
<p>The numbers listed in the article are actual sales not production.</p>
<p>Those are sales numbers I realize, but in reality they are production numbers. If no cars are sitting on the lots and there is a line of customer waiting, then they are only going to sell as many as the production line can create for the month. Therefore sales is matching production, with no excess inventory. That means if the production would be a little faster, sales would be better because all of the people in line would receive them and provide their money to Mini during that month instead of waiting for theirs to get over here. If the production line slowed down, sales would fall, and the lines would get longer, and people would have to wait an extra week or so. It is a 1:1 ratio, since there is no inventory. It is not the same as a Pontiac dealership where there are gobs and gobs of cars on lots and there is a 3 month inventory, therefore production doesn’t impact sales in the same way as a no inventory manufacturer does.</p>
<p>Oh gotcha. MINI has indeed increased production due to strong sales. If the sales weren’t so strong they wouldn’t be doing three shifts seven days a week. They also wouldn’t be talking about spending 200 million dollars to expand the plant. </p>
<p>However with that said, MINI has been extremely careful about over saturation – especially in the US market. In fact Ian posted an article on MF awhile back about MINI holding US imports to the current level for a while due to currency issues.</p>
<p>… ok I’ve now rambled enough…</p>
<p>This is all very interesting, but the real issue here is that people do not stop and stare at the MINI at car shows (JIMOHIO). Everyone knows that is why you purchase a car that is loads of fun to drive–to park it somewhere and let random people tell you how you should feel about your car. </p>
<p>Another issue at hand is that people at these aforementioned car shows do not respect ‘vettes. This is highly relevant because…? I bought my car to drive, not for other people to dictate whether or not it was desirable. I would venture to guess that most people commenting here purchased their vehicles for similar reasons. I do not think that a vehicle’s popularity erodes its inherent uniqueness one bit. If something is innovative, it is innovative. Time is the limiting factor that will eventually chip away at any products relative innovation–as other manufacturers catch up–but this is a separate issue. Purporting a “dilution theory” based upon limited sampling of individuals’ responses at a few car shows is not a strong argument for your feelings Jim. The car is unique. That is an objective statement supported by an analysis of other vehicles available today. Stating that increased numbers of this unique entity will somehow dilute the intrinsic uniqueness is counterintuitive and illogical.</p>
<p>I figured it was a matter of time before you got back up on your soapbox, JimOhio.</p>
<p>One question to you, JimOhio. What makes someone a Corvette person?</p>
<p>Using YOUR logic, the people who view and comment on Vettes at auto shows would not look at any other car at the show, or they might be considered general CAR PEOPLE! We can’t have that, can we Jim? It would completely smash your logic to pieces!</p>
<p>I mean, if I like Vettes at the show, but I also like the Jaguars, the Maseratis, the tricked-out Evos, am I now a general car enthusiast or still a Corvette person? If you see someone comment on someone’s Vette, do you follow them around to make sure they walk right out the door? They must do that, because a general car enthusiast wouldn’t DARE look at a Vette, only the Vette people would, right JimOhio?</p>
<p>This is yet one more example of why your arguments hold no water. The fundamental flaws in your “facts” are so glaring that no reasonable person can avoid it (but YOU will anyway). You still think you’re speaking facts, but you’re simply elevating yourself to “running joke” status. You’re arguments are extremely tired, based on stereotypes, anecdotes, nothing else. You also exhibit a keen ability to ignore anything that properly refutes any of your claims. Kinda like covering your ears while you go “Lalalalala, I can’t hear you!”</p>
<p>So why won’t you sell your MINI, Jim? I mean, it’s already starting its decline according to you. Of course, you’ll probably keep it garaged, wait 30 years, then pull it out again when MINIs are gone or different enough for your MINI to be a novelty. That’s what you crave, NOVELTY, right?</p>
<p>Oh, these questions I’ve posed are not at all rhetorical, I’d appreciate answers (though not expecting much).</p>
<p>David has raised an interesting question.. the notion of having a car that is a “novelty”.. i think that is true to a large extent.. </p>
<p>one would have to admit that a right hand drive austin mini like this that i have..
<a href="http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/carz/FM/miniflag2.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/carz/FM/miniflag2.jpg</a>
is many things and in the usa..indeed a novelty.. </p>
<p>when the MINI came out, it had some novelty aspects to it.. the MINI drives great and has other good features but the novelty factor was indeed part of the MINI..
it is 100% accurate to say that part of the MINI has been diminshed with increased sales. </p>
<p>i talk to the car show gatekeepers/guards/security/sponsors and of course i am in ohio and they tell me a new MINI, unless modified to some level will not be allowed in most likely.. there comes a point where too much mods turn a car to tacky (like a neon srt4 or mistsu evo or a honda civic with a wing and a coffee can as exhaust pipe..</p>
<p>should a new chrysler 300 be alllowed at car show.. i am not talking about car shows at a convention center. i am talking about car cruises..</p>
<p>and back to vette owners.. vette owners have the mentality of many “gear head” type.. the type that measure a car’s value in 1/4 speed and horsepower.</p>
<p>An austin getting to 1/4 mile?
how long would that take?
what is the horsepower in an austin mini 1000? about 38?</p>
<p>vette owners are not able to appreciate the austin mini.. they are intellectually and automotive historicially unable to. a vette owner would go at a car cruise to 1. vettes 2. mustangs 3. camaros 4. old gto’s 5. olds 442’s 6. dodge hemi pick ups to
(a list totally devoid of automotive class and culture)</p>
<p>a true austin mini fan, even a MINI fan but to a lesser extent would more enjoy going from 1. austin minis to 2. MINIS to 3. mgs’ to 4. jags to 5. fiat 500’s to 6. citrons to 7. vw things ( a list full of novelty and charm and intrigue)</p>
<p>well i am happy to present these facts
thank you</p>
<p>Well, JimOhio, you’re STILL ignoring legitimate challenges to your claims and you’re STILL spewing stereotypes. I seriously question your ability to learn from your mistakes. Man, you’re hopeless.</p>
<p>By the way,
Thank you, JimOhio, for the many times you’ve proved me right about you.</p>
<p>what is a stereotype?
they can be often true.. i did not say it is always true but they can be true often..</p>
<p>for example. now sterotypes do not work for all groups but take a guy in a pick up truck.<br />
– say a 1975 Ford F150
– has a gun rack
– has mud flags with tasmanian devil saying “Back Off”!
– picture on mud flaps also have tazmanian devil with his six shooter firing shots into the air
– driver has a red flannels shirt on and jeans</p>
<p>ok ok… is that driver most likely
1. a texas hold em player
2. water polo star
3. cricket player
4. hunter</p>
<p>what is your guess
see how that works
the vette example is a good example
vette owners generaly like old school, clumsy, high horsepower cars but cars totally lacking dignity and class.</p>
<p>now can a vette owner also like an austin mini.. it would be very rare..</p>
<p>vette owners are so into HP and 1/4 speed and old school american car losing mentality that they do not appreciate nor even know what they are looking at when they see an austin mini.</p>
<p>i have presented facts, not opinions and have addressed every allegation of me not presenting facts. </p>
<p>i have to go to wal mart now and get some things.. i am sure i will see some vettes on the way there.. they are all over.. do you think there will be shoppers lining up to look at the vette in the parking lot.. </p>
<p>i bet i get some comments in the parking lot over my austin mini.</p>
<p>Oh, JimOhio, so NOW come the “oftens” and the “rarelys” and the “generallys”. It’s called backpedalling, and you do it so well.</p>
<p>You didn’t use these words when you lumped Vette owners into one big category, you didn’t use them when you characterized Mini lovers, and in both instances, as well as many others, you were so sure of yourself and considered your claims “facts”.</p>
<p>Then you go on to say Vette owners are intellectually inferior, etc. This is a fact? You say Vette lovers like cars with no dignity and class. This is a fact? How do you possibly think that your stereotype generalizations can be considered facts? It must be grounded in methodical research, right? Give me a break.</p>
<p>“Facts” are absolutes, buddy. There is nothing absolute about what kind of people love what kind of cars. They come from all across the board. I’m into Minis AND Corvettes, and you don’t know anything about my upbringing, my background, what I do for a living, etc.</p>
<p>You’re so quick to generalize and stereotype, then you try to throw in the qualifiers after the fact?</p>
<p>You’re so transparent, you must be from a family of glassmakers.</p>
<p>Look, just admit to your social elitism and you’d be surprised about how much better you’ll feel. After all, the first step in dealing with a problem is admitting you have one.</p>
<p>BTW, the way you address challenges to your “facts” is with more self-sure opinions and stereotypes. And the worst part is you think that your answers are sufficient.</p>
<p>I must correct my last post </p>
<p>JimOhio’s new name should read “When I want your opinion I will give it to you”</p>
<p>Also, I now the guy with the “1975 Ford F150 – has a gun rack – has mud flags with tasmanian devil saying “Back Off”! – picture on mud flaps also have tazmanian devil with his six shooter firing shots into the air – driver has a red flannels shirt on and jeans” and there is a Maybach in the garage next to it.</p>
<p>this is a fact</p>
<p>most vette fans = are clueless about classy, historical cool cars like austin minis</p>
<p>fact = austin minis = rare = novel</p>
<p>fact = more MINIS sales = further dilution</p>
<p>thank you very much</p>
<p>yes it is possible a pick up owner like that could have a maybach….</p>
<p>but most would not.</p>
<p>Wow, you just keep on stereotyping. Have you learned nothing from me?</p>
<p>Tell me when you polled Vette owners about historically cool cars, scientifically collecting the results. Tell me this is more than what you THINK about Vette owners. Tell me there’s some hard evidence on this.</p>
<p>Automobile Magazine’s number one cool car ever (out of a list of 100) was the C2 Stingray Corvette. Tell me that they’re wrong and you’re right. Explain to the editors as well as millions of auto aficionados how Corvettes are just for old guys with gold chains and slick hair, that the 50 year history means nothing, that, because they appreciate the Vette, they are all lumped into your JimOhio categorizations. No wait, then that would be yet another one of your opinions that you would call a “fact”.</p>
<p>None of the drivel you produce will ever rise above the level of opinion, but you just refuse to acknowledge that FACT. Like I said, you’re hopeless.</p>
<p>again i am right.</p>
<p>oh it is not that i have to be right and just repeat myself..</p>
<p>here is a fact = stingray not typical vette..</p>
<p>most vettes at car cruises are lame ones, well post stingray days..</p>
<p>and yes. vette (not sting ray vettes) are clueless about austin minis and minis with dignity..</p>
<p>anyway.. you are just trying to divert attention to the real story as it relates to MINIS</p>
<p>more MINIS = more dilution</p>
<p>oh yeah.. this was connected to vettes.
that is one reason vettes are so lame now and yes mocked and ridiculed..</p>
<p>volume did it
the fact that the vette (non sting ray) is a lame car did not help it’s cause</p>
<p>Again with the qualifiers, Jim? Oh, now it’s only a particular Corvette, not the Stingray. I see, modify the argument. You do that often. What would you have said in the 60’s about the Stingray Vette? That it’s too popular? It was the “typical” Vette then. Your argument is conditional, so again, it holds no water.</p>
<p>Just the very fact that you call late model Vettes “lame” is an expression of “opinion”. For the 100th time, how can you not see that what you espouse is your opinion? I don’t mind that you have opinions, just stop calling them facts, for goodness sake.</p>
<p>Let’s get back to MINIs, as you prefer.</p>
<p>The only reason your Austin Mini is unique is because it didn’t catch on in the U.S., not because of limited production.
The car lasted 50 years in Europe. So your claims of limited production mean nothing.
You bought a car that was never popular in its time in the U.S., big deal. It’s not the Ferrari Enzo, where the production run is limited to begin with.</p>
<p>I own an Olds Intrigue, they only made them for 5 years, and they never really caught on either. I have JUST AS MUCH CHANCE of it becoming a novelty as your Austin Mini.</p>
<p>The ONLY reason yours is popular now is because the success of the NEW MINI raised the level of Mini consciousness in America. You do realize this, right? Otherwise, you would be just like all those Vette owners you claim to know so well. You would only be interested in the Austin Minis, patting each other on the back, knowing all about the car when no one else gives a lick, blah blah blah.</p>
<p>Does this stuff never occur to you?</p>
<p>You still haven’t answered my question. What makes a Vette fan? What distinguishes a Vette enthusiast from a general car enthusiast?</p>
<p>One major flaw in your arguments, although you won’t care:</p>
<p>You saying that “only Vette fans like Vettes” is as flawed as saying that “only stamp collectors like stamps”. Let’s say only Mini fans like Minis. The argument works there, too.</p>
<p>Your argument is CIRCULAR.</p>
<p>Of course only Vette fans like Vettes enough to know the details. Only music fans like music enough to know about its history. Only movie fans like movies enough to know cinematic history. Only cat lovers know all about cats and different feline species.</p>
<p>Is it making sense to you? I doubt it.</p>
<p>But you want to EXCLUDE Vette fans from liking other cars or having other “civilized” interests, but not the Mini fans, right? No, they’re cultured, while the Vette fan isn’t. Your logic about Vette fans is the only “Lame” thing here. Look, man, give it up. I’ve proven to you time and again that your arguments are flimsy. Either my retorts are above your head or you’re simply ignoring them.</p>
<p>talk about lame
there is not much more of a lame car than an olds intrigue.</p>
<p>here is another fact
the austin mini was very cool before the new MINI came out..</p>
<p>the austin mini was rare in this country..usa.. that is my vantage point but i know austin minis still cause a buzz in other countries…</p>
<p>i have a deal.. go to a car cruise in with your olds intrigue and see if they will let you in or make you park next to the ford tauruses and chevy luminas.</p>
<p>i know the austin mini will be welcomed.</p>
<p>anything post stingray vettes are lame.
admit it.. it is a car brand with a serverly diluted brand name and scorned
by car fans outside of vette circles.</p>
<p>again facts more MINI sales = more dilution.</p>
<p>austin mini = cool, very cool</p>
<p>new MINI = was very cool until volume up</p>
<p>JimOhio, Austin Minis still cause a “buzz” in other countries? Prove it. Give me some “facts” about it. You love to make blanket statements but you NEVER EVER back them up. Except with OPINIONS (i.e. Vettes are for people who only care about horsepower). Sorry, but your claims need more substantiation than a simple one-liner. This is typical of your posts, so I don’t expect any changes. And, no, following up with more opinions just won’t do here.</p>
<p>It has been my experience that many people don’t know what an Intrigue is, I’ve had people ask me questions on the street about it, with fascination in their voices. But I’m not as egotistical as you to make blanket statements on it’s appeal. Due to its low volume, how can you be so sure that it would be relegated to the “back lot?” OPINION, OPINION, OPINION…</p>
<p>BTW, expressing your OPINION of the “lameness” of my Olds doesn’t help your case in claiming to give “facts” either. I know more than a few people who would beg to differ, but that’s another issue. Either way, your opinion in this case really doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>“here is another fact the austin mini was very cool before the new MINI came out..”</p>
<p>So what constitutes cool? When 100 people are into it? 1000? 100,000? The definition of what’s cool is WHOLLY in the realm of opinion, but, again, you won’t admit that, and would rather claim that your opinions are “facts”.
Sigh… it’s like talking to a wall…</p>
<p>You want to make a deal, huh? Deals involve risk, risk involves chance, CHANCE is what I tried to teach you a while ago… but, ONCE AGAIN, you don’t seem to learn…</p>
<p>“anything post stingray vettes are lame. admit it”</p>
<p>Yet another OPINION you’re trying to force on the public, but of course you have difficulty distinguishing facts from opinions, so I’ll chalk this point up as one that didn’t get through to you (along with the rest of them).</p>
<p>Tell you what, make sure your next post involves actual facts, sources, numbers, ANYTHING to back up your blanket statement that Austin Minis cause a “buzz” in other countries, despite the fact that they were sold until at least the year 2000. Then you MIGHT actually have a leg to stand on.</p>
<p>I’m serious, give my URLs, articles, anything to show me that you’re not pulling your “facts” out of thin air. After all, you “know” it, right?</p>
<p>“again facts more MINI sales = more dilution.</p>
<p>austin mini = cool, very cool</p>
<p>new MINI = was very cool until volume up”</p>
<p>OPINION….</p>
<p>OPINION….</p>
<p>AAANNNDDD OPINION….</p>
<p>Your narcissistic attempts to define “cool” and “popular” simply illustrate AGAIN (and AGAIN and AGAIN…) that you express your opinions as “facts.”</p>
<p>Also, it’s funny how you jump into this article, repeating the same lame comments (oops, I should say that this is my opinion) about Vette owners, and then accuse ME of getting off-topic? I’m working with what YOU presented, so try to remember that, okay?</p>
<p>You know, for someone with all your business “knowledge” and “experience”, your skills of persuasion leave much to be desired. After all, persuasive skills are what you need to make the sale, right?</p>
<p>$-NO SALE-$</p>
<p>P.S. Are you ever going to get around to answering my question? With real facts, not more of your “Vette owners are lame” opinions?</p>
<p>David,</p>
<p>Thanks for putting what I’ve been saying in a form that Jim might understand. We’ll find out next month when the sale figures come out.</p>
<p>Don’t expect much, F.R. Walter. I’m getting bored with JimOhio. We’ll hear the same railing as before.</p>
<p>He’ll state an inane blanket opinion (i.e. “X car is lame” or “Vette owners aren’t smart enough”), call it a fact, I’ll handily expose the weakness of his “fact”, then he’ll just repeat himself somewhere else. Nevermind that everyone else disagrees with his “facts”. He doesn’t even take a second to reflect on what might be wrong with his stance (I’m convinced he has no capacity for introspection). He’ll just continue to toe the party line, so to speak. Oh, yeah, he might modify his argument if he’s backed into a corner.</p>
<p>So, it will be the same cycle over again. Nothing accomplished, nothing learned or gained. It has become a waste of my time, and he has long ago decided to waste his.</p>
<p>And here I thought trolls were just plastic dolls with pink hair. JimOhio — we missed you! Welcome back! Tell us again about people with bad oral hygiene!</p>
<p>here is a fact</p>
<p>went to a car cruise saturday night.</p>
<p>about 250 cars..
took my austin mini</p>
<p>parked not just to a vette but a vette with some silly date on the side.
i guess it was the pace car for the indy 500 back in 1995.</p>
<p>this car cruise is very popular and tons of spectators.. </p>
<p>that night i would estimate about 300 people stopped to look at my austin mini.. many taking pictures, cell phone pics, videos, regular cameras..</p>
<p>the buzz was huge..</p>
<p>the lowly vette.. one guy dragged his wife and kids to see it. they appeared disinterested..</p>
<p>then i had to take a break from fielding questions from the throngs of austin mini fans.. took a walk.. the ca cruise had about 20 vettes.. all of them ignored.. (i am sure other vette owners stopped and maybe looked at a few).. this is a fact.. the general public could not give one hoot about vettes.. vettes should be banned from car cruises.. it hurts the curb appeal of car shows/cruises when you have lame cars there (lame in this case = common)
same with mustangs at car shows = lame
lame, lame, lame.</p>
<p>the buzz for the austin is huge in the usa.. my comments are for the usa.. please do not try and support your failed theory by bringing in other countries into this discussion.. i am sure in other countries there is a huge buzz over austin minis but i have first hand proof of it in the great old usa.</p>
<p>oh yeah.. olds intrigue..
that really is a lame car.
olds aurora, olds intrigue, olds aurora, olds achieva</p>
<p>can a car be anymore boring</p>
<p>no car is as exciting as an austin mini.
none..</p>
<p>the new MINI had much of that allure.
my simple yet detailed lessons how more MINI sales dilutes the charm and novelty of the MINI is something you refuse to accept.. i still like the MINI.. but which one gets a huge buzz at car shows.. </p>
<p>you got it.. the austin mini</p>
<p>thanks for your time and this opportunity to present facts.</p>
<p>First of all…Gabe, I’ve been visiting your site almost daily for the past year or so, and I have to applaud you and your contributors for providing such a wealth of information on our favorite little car.</p>
<p>JimOhio, I certainly don’t need to add to the criticisms you’ve been hearing, but you’ve almost singlehandedly ruined the experience of visiting this website. If your intention is simply to offend anyone with a different opinion than your own, I have to give you credit.</p>
<p>As a fan of sports cars of all shapes and sizes, both Corvettes and MINIs turn my head…equally. I have had the pleasure of owning a Vette, and I soon be enjoying my first MINI. The C6s are as beautiful, powerful, and capable on the track as anything several times their price. BMW has packed an incredible level of fun into the MINI package. How can you not appreciate both?</p>
<p>i am the only one that has looked at this whole situation fairly and honestly. the repeated bashing of me and labeling me a troll and denying my
factual comments i have presented is the real chargrin.</p>
<p>i suggest if you cannot handle postings on a public car message board, it is best you not read the car message boards then.</p>
<p>SpeedyV – I would highly recommend disregarding anything JimOhio says in these comments sections. He perpetually has same tired argument and when people confront him with appropriate responses (IE – make him look ridiculous) he refuses to respond directly. </p>
<p>The only reason he hasn’t been banned already is that I’ve heard from some MF readers that they find him entertaining.</p>
<p>JimOhio has grown boring and predictable with his posts. It’s not even fun anymore to point out his errors (because he refuses to learn from them). When no one feels like responding to him anymore, just wait for the next sales figures to come out. He’ll declare some opinions, relate some anecdotes, and call them all hard, text-book “facts”. Then the attention he craves will come flooding back.</p>
<p>One thing good did happen, though. He finally admitted to using stereotypes to get his points across.</p>
<p>JimOhio, thanks for making my point :)</p>
<p>Gabe, I understand where you’re coming from. There is a sort of twisted fascination to be had from his commentary…an amusing detachment from reality. In the past, I’ve only experienced such a thing on sports message boards. But with a car that generates this level of enthusiasm, I guess it was inevitable.</p>
<p>JimOhio</p>
<p>I really feel sorry for you, in fact I pity you. You purchased your new MINI for all the wrong reasons. The ONLY reason for the new MINI cooper is to be fun to drive. The thought of stopping it (parking) to show it off is an offence to all sensibilities</p>
<p>Jim Ohio
just wanted to say that at the car shows how long does it take look at vettes and come to the conclusion that no one ever looks at them ? a few min. ? longer? it seems to me that if you look at them that long doesnt that make you look like you like vettes? </p>
<p>gabe
LOVE THE WEBISTE!!! getting my mini in october.. yes long wait but didnt want to pay more then msrp.. minis are very popular in north cali.</p>
<p>Feh, just ban him.. he’s as entertaining as a rash, and as exciting a twit with neons on his neon…</p>