JCW Re-imagined: Our Take on the JCW
(This article is specifically about the US-spec MINI JCW and not the version that comes with the aero-kit elsewhere in the world)
A lot has been made of the new factory JCW MINI not coming with the JCW suspension let alone the sport suspension as standard. In our review last week we found the car to be exceptional in all but two ways – lack of visual distinction and lack of an upgraded suspension. And it’s not rocket science how you fix both of those issues. JCW has the parts to do it, but they just decided leave the car relatively untouched and ready for each owner to tailor it to their own needs. Of course the problem (as we said in the review) is that MINI hasn’t done the JCW brand or the car any favors with this visual restraint. People simply can’t recognize a JCW MINI (like they do an M3) from across the parking lot and due to this there’s a lack of brand recognition as well. But worse for the enthusiast, the lack of an upgraded suspension signals a serious compromise in the character of the car. People want to believe in a brand and the ideals it stands for. They want authenticity. At this point it’s a little unclear how authentic the JCW is or will be.
But the good news is that we can fix that. So let’s put aside all of those issues and take a look at how we would have built and positioned the new MINI JCW.
To start with we’d change nothing with the drive-train or brakes. They are excellent and individually the best things we’ve ever experienced in a MINI factory car. But that doesn’t mean that the performance of the JCW is perfect. So we’d have put the JCW suspension on this car standard with the slightly softer sport suspension as a no-cost option. It’s less rough than people think and certainly livable with the wonderful 17″ Borbet wheels (owned by BBS in case you’re wondering). It would help immeasurably with getting power down in the corners and with the dreaded torque steer. And it wouldn’t really add that much to the cost of the car from a material stand-point.
Visual we’d change the car in a coupe of obvious ways. For one we’d add the JCW aero-kit as standard (yes we know this already comes standard in some markets). We’d also do something unique to the trim of the car to give it a bit more character. Something that couldn’t easily be replicated on a non-JCW car. Blacked out inner headlight trim would be a good place to start. Then maybe followed by a JCW Challenge car rear defuser tucked under the rear.
We’d stick with the 17″ JCW wheels as standard but would add an 18″ wheel as an option much like BMW has an optional 19″ wheel for the M3. This is a great money maker for BMW and gives consumers (theoretically) a cheaper way to get 18″s since they’d be available from the factory.
Inside we’d suggest using a similar grey palette that the MINI E has (without the yellow highlights) on the tach and speedometer along with the exceptional JCW steering wheel for a bit more of a beefier and sporty feel. Finally we’d offer a unique trim color that has the JCW logo cleanly integrated into it rather than the plastic sticker that currently adorns the JCW. Of course the anthracite headliner and JCW sills should be left alone as they are currently standard on the car.
But what does this do to cost and ultimately MSPR? What is described above would need to be priced higher in stock form than the current JCW. But knowing the material costs wouldn’t be dramatically higher, we’d hope that MINI would be able to keep costs down to levels similar to what you see the JCW at today. In the US our hope would be the $30,000 mark. While that is higher, than the car today, we believe the additions and the new found character would easily command this price difference.
Will this make a difference? It’s hard to say. As much as MINI reads MF, we’re not in charge. We can only offer suggestions based on our knowledge of the market and the MINI owner. But it’s certainly fun to imagine what the car would have been received if specced accordingly.
However let’s not end it here. What’s your take on the JCW car? Did MINI hit the mark? If not, what would you have liked to have seen added or subtracted?
Make the real LSD an option, and the JCW suspension a no cost option.
Please don’t make the body kit standard, it looks horrible to me
And keep the price under 29k. For the love of god, a 370Z started less than 30k, and it’s interior is much nicer than the JCW’s, while outperforming the car 10 fold. 26k would be nice.
I wholeheartedly agree, Gabe. This car should look different than every other MINI on the road. Include the body kit, and the JCW suspension.
You hit the nail on the head. I hope MINI USA is reading this.
“And keep the price under 29k. For the love of god, a 370Z started less than 30k, and it’s interior is much nicer than the JCW’s, while outperforming the car 10 fold. 26k would be nice.”
Never gonna happen, the S starts at 23k there is no way they would only price it 3k more than the base S.
And comparing the Z to the Mini is like Apples an Oranges. Have you ever tried to put a child in the back seat of a Z? Oh wait it is only a 2 seater! It is a pure sports car with hardly any economy involved. And that big opening door thing in the middle of the Z’s dash is horrendous!
I agree w/ Rich on the price point being missed. I had a 2003 Cooper w/ options that I bought new for 18,435 (at this price, it was a steal). I later sold it for 19500 w/ 30000 miles, so I understand the demand, but all MINIs have become too expensive, and this car, when compared to the 370, the updated version of the WRX, RX8, MX-5 or, for that matter, the Fiat 500 Abarth, is way out of its league. I would like nothing more than to buy a new MINI and have missed mine since the day that I sold it, but I will either buy the Fiat, if they make it over, or a used MR2 Spyder w/ 50k for 10 grand and a Triumph Scrambler, unless MINI produces their rumored mini MINI and sells it for sig. less than anything in their current lineup.
Even though I agree that the upgraded sport suspension should be standard, I think that everything else should be optional. Part of the reason MINIacs love the car is because of the idea that they can customize their cars to their liking. MINIacs might be interested in looks while other’s want performance.
I can’t count the number of MINIs out there that “look†like mine, but in reality isn’t even close to my specs.
When I first learned of the factory JCW, I was convinced I was getting it. As the price came out and the options it included, or, more accurately, didn’t include, I didn’t feel the cost benefit ratio was very good. When you add all the bells and whistles, you get into the 40’s. I just couldn’t justify it. Bummer. Looks like one heck of a car. I agree with Gabe: make JCW like the ///M brand. It is way too mundane right now.
Off topic, any leaks about the 2009 JCW Cabrio aledge to be due out in March when the COOP and 2 Cabrio Debut
This reminds me of an argument I had with some of the other mods/admins on NAM about whether or not to give the factory JCW its own dedicated forum.
My argument was that the factory JCW was really just another trim model, in the same fashion that the Cooper and Cooper S are different trims on the same model (ever since the R52 was released… and the same on the R55, R56 and soon the R57). In other words, the factory JCW Coupe is still just a variation on the R56, and the factory JCW Clubman is just a variation on the R55.
Their argument was that there are unique parts on the factory JCW that you can’t simply add to a Cooper S. True… but there are also many unique Cooper S parts that you can’t add to a Cooper, yet they share the same model code.
How is this relevant to the MF article? Well, I believe that MINIUSA thinks of them much the same way. I think they don’t view the factory JCW as anything truly “special”. It’s just another trim model to them. Something to “adjust” to sell as another step over the Cooper S, which it still is, of course.
I don’t think MINIUSA will sell a “true” factory enthusiast car (i.e. with all of the JCW goodies we think they should have included now) in the 2nd Gen MINIs until they release a “special” one at the end of the model line, ala the R53 GP.
Maybe they’ll prove me wrong, but MINIUSA’s decisions on included (even <strong>available</strong>) options for the USA market have seemed on many occasions to be less about “enthusiasts” like us, and more about finding the “sweet spot” for their bottom line.
Hey, they’re a business. What can we expect?
I still cannot understand why the JCW accessories are not standard. Every JCW car should come with a JCW wheel, different seats, a Whalen Machine ball shifter and unique colored guages. Perhaps a two tone hood scoop would also set it apart. I should be able to discern a JCW coming at me in the opposite lane.
i LOVED the original jcw kits both for its heritage and the performance. the new jcw is really bmw, so what should bmw have done? like everyone else said, mechanical lsd should at least be an option. the car should come standard w/ the jcw aerokit and some interior bits, especially for the price they’re charging. as it is, it’s not bad or anything, but i would feel ripped off paying the asking price. i guess the main thing is that jcw just doesn’t feel that special anymore. what they’re doing is turning jcw into mini’s equivalent of the m, whereas before the jcw kit was from a garage in england that made the mini famous in the first place
Just a few things I differ on. I have no love for the JCW aero kit, but the addition of the rear ducting does it for me – it should be extended to real brake vents up front to differentiate it from the basic body kit.
The only other thing is they should have the Recaro driver’s seat as standard, or at least an option. The passenger seat can remain the basic S sport seat.
Minis with expensive options and lots of power run counter to what I love about these cars. They are very fun, affordable sporty cars.
So what would I do differently with the JCW car? Make the world’s first fun-to-drive hybrid.
This car was a near miss. Edge hit it dead on–the whole R56 was aimed at making MINI more refined for the everyday driver, while trying to push performance as well–but as a second priority (unlike what Nissan did with the 370 Z for example).
BMW succeded, but at the cost of alienating a minority (admittedly a vocal one) who were hoping for a bit more. The JCW we though would be the answer–but its not. Its too compromised, especially at this price point. Maybe we’ll see a GP variant, but that’s kind of what we were hoping the JCW would be in the first place (and its certainly what BMW initially hinted at).
Lavadera, having the Recaro’s on one side only is a horrible idea. If you have Recaro’s in the first place, you’re probably (at least I’d hope) consider tracking the car, and you’d need the same seat on the passenger side as the driver side if you want an instructor….
As an ex-R56 owner and a couldn’t-be-happier R53 JCW Competition Edition owner (limited edition run of 64 full factory JCWs sold in Canada) I’ll add my two cents in (again) too…
The R56 “sport suspension” option is unacceptable at even stock S power levels. Why?
(1) Vicious and speed-hampering torque steer.
(2) Too much squat/dive on acceleration/deceleration.
(3) Disconcerting levels of body roll for any sport hatch (let alone a MINI).
(4) Exaggerated ride height and wheel well gap that makes a mockery of the car’s alleged “bulldog stance”.
The JCW suspension addresses all four criticisms above and finally turns an S into the kind of enthusiast’s drive that matches the car’s reputation for handling agility and steering response. At the increased power levels of the JCW, it is even more needed!
There will always be buyers (and they seem to be largely concentrated in the US) who demand a softer, quieter, gentler MINI. The JCW should not be that car! By appealing to this lowest common denominator as BMW has done with the JCW spec for the NA market, they are greatly diluting the brand’s values. It is not right to have to do suspension modifications immediately upon delivery of a top-drawer JCW MINI, the supposed “top performance” model.
I’ll stop at the suspension… it should go without saying that I feel the factory JCW should also come with AT LEAST the aero kit and a full complement of JCW interior pieces, particularly at the price being charged for these cars.
A very well written article Gabe that I agree with on every point!
I really think for an initial venture with making the JCW a dedicated sub brand BMW/Mini fumbled on this. What they really needed to do is to use the GP as a starting point of the sub brand. The JCW Mini needs to be a no hold performance version of the brand. Instead I feel that as nice as the current JCW Mini is it disappears on the street and lacks a lot of the feeling ///M has and most other brands have with their performance versions. Whats worse though is even the “big” 3 American car makers don’t make this mistake nearly as bad, BMW should be ashamed of producing a car that reeks of cost saving versus anything else. I for one would have paid for a proper JCW without hesitation.
Which one would you get?
A new 2009 Pontiac G8 GT sedan (V8, 361HP, excellent handling) for $27K and change?
or a new 2009 JCW Clubman for $35K and change?
I agree with your requests, except for the ugly and cubic exterior kit
Thing is clear, for most buyers, the normal S is by far a better deal, over almost all plans !
I was told that BMW didn’t have any ambition on selling the JCW …that may be the reason of this unachieved work
Make polyurethane bushings standard on the factory JCW, lower the ride height (Make it stiffer too), add some exclusive colors, lower the price and we’ll be talkin’
Please make the JCW suspension available for the R55. My one major criticism of the new R56/R55 is the softer feel of the suspension tuning. It’d be fine if I could get the R56 w/the suspension, but I want an R55 and its extra space while still being very MINI. But even the JCW Clubman can’t get the upgraded suspension. Is it really that much different? Maybe slightly different spring rates to account for the Clubman’s mildly heavier self.
The JCW should have come with a real suspension upgrade, a different fascia and different interior trim. A little subtle change to make it more //M like. But even the M cars will lose cachet with the addition of the M-Sport pacakages for the regular series here in the USA starting this year. Europe’s had them for awhile.
MINIs may be a little expensive, but they drive like they’re worth it. And that’s what matters at the end of the day. If you want more power for the money, you lose out on quality and refinement and driving zest. And I would spend $35k on a JCW before I’d even dream of spending $27k on a Pontiac with a thirsty V8 and chintzy interior. Then there’s always the 3-series…
if it had factory JCW suspension and aerokit standard, and kept the price the same as it is today, this car would already be in my garage. but to put it as an option, costing me a few thousand, in this economic climate..
no thanks…. i’ll wait till the interior changes and someone over at mini USA wakes up and realizes they should do what i just typed, and shave a little of the profits off…. it’ll perhaps do better in the end for them anyway, since they’d sell more.
Only question that I have is if anyone at Mini listening to the pretty much constant feedback on the car. Heck I would buy a 35K coupe if it actually was something special. Not even vaguely tempted by this muddy message offering, I know a lot of work went into the car but I can’t help to feel that it did nothing to separate the JCW into a sub-brand. Maybe Mini should wave the white flag and just make a ///M Mini, that at least wouldn’t be left well short of a complete car.
My original intention was to order the new JCW when it became available; however I was a bit impatient and instead I ordered a ’08 MCS late in 2007 which arrived a year ago January. Since taking delivery I have spent a good amount of time, expense and some frustration with aftermarket modifications. My current modifications include replacing the standard suspension with the JCW suspension, wheels (15.7 lbs.) & tires, CAI, complete silicone hose replacements, FMIC replacement, and complete turbo back exhaust replacement. I am still (almost 6 months after installation) dealing with a CEL issue due to the aftermarket downpipe. I hope to have that resolved soon but it has been a frustrating and time consuming experience, and I still have more expense in front of me to provide a final fix. In terms of dollars I have spent a bit less than the cost of the JCW upgrade, but do not have the JCW brakes (parts price as an aftermarket upgrade is $2K retail) or internal engine mods. On the plus side, I have driven the factory JCW and my “butt dyno†tells me that my car is significantly faster, and with the JCW suspension it definately handles better.
If the factory JCW had been available at the time I ordered my car I likely would still have made the same decision due to the cost and lack of certain items not included with the JCW upgrade. With 20-20 hindsight I would have to more seriously consider the JCW option. A factory JCW may be a serious consideration for my next MINI in a couple of years. What would “seal the deal†for me regarding a future factory JCW would be for MINI to package and price things a bit differently than they do now. The JCW and sport suspensions should be available from the factory, with one or the other being a no cost option. I agree that the factory JCW should be easily identified as a distinctive upgrade from MCS, however MINI should keep the changes somewhat understated and “in good tasteâ€. For example I am not a fan of the huge rear wing spoilers that Subaru and Mitsubishi use on their top of the line performance models. On the other hand some items like the JCW steering wheel and some exclusive carbon fiber trim pieces would be a good place to start. Upgraded seats should be provided as a standard item. It would also be nice if MINI offered some factory no cost or low cost options with respect to alternative wheels, and a turbo back sport exhaust upgrade. It would be really nice to be able to factory order a JCW car similar to my current MCS without going to the expense and headache of dealing with a bunch of duplicate parts (in my case this includes wheels/tires, roll bars, struts & springs, complete exhaust, intercooler, CAI, and hoses). I realize such a move would be opposed by the dealers that currently sell and install many of these items aftermarket. However in my mind the customer good will and satisfaction that MINI would generate among the enthusiast community would be huge; and it has been my observation that the enthusiast community does offer MINI the opportunity to favorably influency the rest of the MINI community.
For the record, those “huge wing spoilers” on the Scooby’s and Mitsubishi’s are actually functional, unlike, say, the slot in the hood on the MCS/JCW’s 😉
Let me get this straight. A Recaro on one side is a bad idea because if you are getting a JCW it means you are probably going to track it, and if you track it you won’t want a Recaro in the driver place, because if you want an instructor the have to have the same seat….
I smell a lot of if in that excuse.
Sorry I just don’t get the complaining!
I actually own an 09 JCW and I wouldn’t change a thing about the car. I love the fact that it is a bit of a sleeper. If MINI had included the Aero kit I would have purchased something else. This is my third MINI and my second JCW the first being an 04. This car is a much better car than the first! Modify your own car if you want aero kits or JCW suspension but let me buy mine the way it is. I’ll never see the track and I dont want the JCW suspension. As to price, at 40K+ it is a bit ridiculous but I like the car and a similarly equipped BMW 3 would be in the low 50’s. I believe the JCW is a bit of a bargain and a brilliant design the way it is.
From Gabe’s mounth to Mini’s ear. The R56 JCW is a dissapointment on many levels. The idea that the JCW suspension was optional because some people want a soft ride is a joke. What brand offers a high performance version without beefing up the suspension? No one! I’ve driven the ’09 JCW with standard suspension and it SUCKS!
The 370Z comparison is legit. Who buys a JCW worrying about the back seat? It’s a SPORTS CAR! If that’s a concern buy a Clubbie. The 370Z is 332 HP and HOT inside and out! Loaded with standard items at $29K that added to the JCW would take it to almost $40k!
I’m going to drive one tomorrow. Will report back. Hey Mini, get in the game all the way or stay out. Half way is embarressing compared to the competition.
Oh and BTW, Nissan makes “deals” on cars. You’re not forced to pay sticker.
I forgot to add I agree with all of Gabes suggestions but would like to add that this car still needs more power at that price. It’s underwhelming to drive compared to what else is available at $30k plus. A well specced JCW is the same cost as an 135i for G’s sake.
Spot on Gabe.
Anyway, I think I’ll start upgrading my R53 to a full JCW … somehow I believe it’s a bit closer to the original feel … hard ride, tight cornering, and hey… what a sound ….
No, Lava, once again you have it totally wrong. Recaro’s are a great idea, but on BOTH sides. Pointless to have it just on the drivers side from an enthusiasts standpoint, but maybe the JCW isn’t for the enthusiast?
Where will you truly get use out of Recaro’s? On the track. They’re not that much better than a standard sport seat for day to day driving functionally, and comfort is subjective–some people love em’, others don’t. But you won’t get full use out of Recaro’s driving to the grocery store, anymore than you would a 5 point harness…
Both body kits for the R56 are hideous; making either as standard equipment would be a deal-breaker for me regardless of how great the rest of the car is. I love the fact that the JCW is subtle.
The suspension is the biggest issue. I refuse to pay an incompetent BMW/MINI mechanic to disassemble a new car to put on what should have been standard…the JCW suspension. It’s a waste of raw materials, and the attempt to increase dealer profits is transparent and I won’t be a part of it.
It’s all about performance for me…I have no desire to draw attention to myself. I would have a JCW right now if the JCW suspension, steering wheel, and Recaros were part of the $30k deal.
Excellent work Gabe.
Also JonE, I am in same boat and totally agree with your comments.
And, I want the Recarros. Had them in an 4×4 truck and they were so helpful on longer highway drives.
Why all the 370 comparisons? How about a Mazdaspeed 3 instead? The car can be BOUGHT for under $23K and it will smoke a Cooper S or a JCW. I too think the MINI’s have gotten way too expensive for what you get. I know BMW is trying to profit a bit off the huge demand for the cars, but there are way better performance options out there for less money. Just ask Car & Driver magazine…the Mazdaspeed 3 won every test it was in… over the Cooper S and the JCW. Thats they type of car MINI should be aiming for, and at the same pricepoint.
its such a shame no one outside of mini enthusiasts and current owners will know waht the heck a JCW is.
At least when honda came out with the Integra typeR, everyone knew that car meant business, and it was special from the rest. Same with the BMW, same with the Nissan SpecV (even though that was trash, but at least it was differentiated from the rest of the line-up).
talk about mismanagement of brand
about the recaro debate, it would actually be horrible because it would drive up costs for Mini. They’ll have to crash a few more cars with the new seats in, and theres more costs to factor in other than the value of the car themselves… the logistics of crashing a car for the gov costs a lot.
not to mention, id rather buy my own set of recaros rather than have the watered down meant-for-fat-people recaros a la Mitsu Evolutions.
Re: JCW costing only 3k more than the Cooper S
MINI better do something. I love MINIS! But it is very hard for me to justify buying the JCW when there are a lot of cars sold for around 30k that will run circles around it. Yeah, the MINI has a backseat, but when adjusted for me, there is no legroom in back so it’s useless (but not that I care, I’m not sitting back there). And it’s FWD! Why should a FWD hot hatch be costing as much as 422hp Camaros, 390hp Challengers, S2000s, RX-8s, 370Zs, Lancer Ralliart/EVO GSRs, 260hp WRXs, etc.
I think Gabe hit the nail on the head for the most part, because trying to think of additions I’d make beyond his suggestions is hard. “What he said^”. 🙂 Only real question (as was posed above), what’s the price?
<blockquote>Lavadera, having the Recaro’s on one side only is a horrible idea. If you have Recaro’s in the first place, you’re probably (at least I’d hope) consider tracking the car, and you’d need the same seat on the passenger side as the driver side if you want an instructor…</blockquote>
Sorry, got to call you on this. I have had no issues with a Sparco fixed-back driver seat and OEM passenger seat, driving with Jim Russell and BMWCCA instructors. They care about equal “restraints” side to side, not seats. An “aggressive” seat on the driver’s side only is a great way to go, imo.
On top of Gabe’s list I would add true lightweight wheels and sticky rubber as well as some meaningful (as opposed to GP-esque) weight-saving measures, including stereo and AC delete options.
Still have to say the saddest thing is I think largely the opinions are pretty much falling on deaf ears at BMW/Mini. My idea of what a JCW Mini should be is with most the current car but with a real suspension, unique character and above all else light weight. Pretty sad to say that the JCW Mini was the biggest disappointment ever from Mini, heck to let you know how much I think this car is lacking I would say I have less issues with Mini SUV’s than with this mixed and muddy statement what it is.
Pretty sure BMW/Mini honestly considers this car great and not likely to see any changes on it but small tweaks while I personally believe as a sub-brand this was a failure of the first order. The JCW Mini is just another Mini and not much else.
It would be nice if MINI listened to enthusiasts about the JCW, but the bottom line is there are more MINIs running around here in SoCal than you can shake a stick at and there were 4 times as many applications as MINI had MINI Es. They don’t have to listen.
Go ahead cct1, why don’t you tell us why the seats have to be the same.
Other than the look of cars with diver only upgraded seats are laughable if seen any place but the track. No technical reason why this cannot happen, of course the JCW Recaro’s are still out since they won’t bring them to the states as a single seat option and won’t spend the money for the passenger side sensor.
Maybe the problem isn’t that Mini doesn’t listen to its most enthusiastic customers – maybe Mini does listen to you all!
I see a lot of pride here and on NAM from people who have created their own performance Minis from aftermarket parts they chose for themselves, from SSR wheels to M7 and Alta’s creations to Randy Webb pulleys and now to RMW tuning and parts.
There is much to be said for some people to be able to buy a JCW or an M car and consider their work done, but it seems to me that performance-minded Mini owners have taken the brand’s you-ification suggestion far beyond what any factory would put on the street.
Buy a used R53, add a pulley, injectors, RMW header, cam, tune, CAI, exhaust, coilovers, brakes, wheels, tires and racing seats. You’ll be in hog heaven with a fast car that’s all yours, not something anyone with more money than brains could buy off a lot. And it’ll probably cost less than the MSRP of a new JCW. And it’ll look better.
I own an 09 JCW (black, JCW aerokit, sport suspension). I REALLY like it. After driving about 3000 miles now, I think the JCW suspension would be nice to have, but I don’t think the sports suspension necessarily “sucks”. The car handles well overall for street applications. I think one problem is that MINI dealers need to have more cars with the JCW suspension available for customers to drive so people can feel how hard the ride is and make an informed decision. I commute every day on crappy roads and I wasn’t going to risk having fillings come out of my teeth. Now I’ve come to realize the JCW suspension isn’t too harsh, but it is still EXPENSIVE. So, if I was to improve the factory JCW I’d make the following changes:
(1) JCW aerokit and suspension as standard at no charge
(2) NO runflat tire BS – use real performance tires instead, with a free emergency kit and pump.
(3) If possible, make the car LIGHTER (carbon fiber hood, etc). Eliminate the fake hood scoop to save a few ounces! Weight is the enemy of all that is good.
(4) Have a custom color or two to make it different.
(5) Make these upgrades (except color) cheap to retrofit so I don’t feel ripped off for buying my 2009 instead of a 2010!
Comparisons with big V6 and V8 engine RWD cars are just silly. Many cars will out accelerate even a highly modified MINI. The MINI is a FWD coupe with a TINY little transverse mounted engine. A lot of us need rear seats for kids, etc. and don’t want a 2 seat car. If you prefer a “narrow focus” high performance sports car the MINI will not be your best choice! Be realistic. Save up and buy a used Corvette! Then you can run with those Nissan Z cars and Pontiacs on the straightaways all day long. A MINI (even with the JCW tricks) isn’t going to run mid-12 second 1/4 mile times. Still, the JCW performs outside of it’s class (how many cars are there with 1.6 liter engines anyway?), offers handling that can rival many more expensive sportscars, has a unique and funky personality, and yet it’s still practical, economical, fun transportation. That’s why it’s such a great car!
The MINI is still overpriced if you negate the comparison to RWD vehicles. The Mazdaspeed 3, GTI, Cobalt SS, WRX, all cost 4-6k less than a base JCW, while outperforming pr providing performance on par with it in turns and straightaways.
S2000s, RX-8s, 370Zs, EVOs, and WRXs are hardly straight line only cars
The factory JCW is 38950 euro’s here in Holland….
a fast calculation makes that this car is more then 52582 US dollars…… (but we get the aero-kit)
I think Gabe’s argument holds water. If you’re going to bother making a special edition, make it special. If it’s going to have extra oomph, the suspension has to have extra oomph too. If it’s going to go like stink, then it’s got to look like stink too (wait, that didn’t come out right).
The JCW needs to be able to stand out in, what is generally, a wildly oddball pack of user-modified MINIs. And that’s not an easy thing no matter how you cut it.
“nless you’re from the UK don’t say “spot on”. Posers.
Another happy 09 JCW owner here. Not counting the port installed Aero Kit (which I too would have liked to see standard)my build was about $5K more than my previous 08 MCS with similar options. I think that’s a decent premium for the brakes and engine mods. I got the sport suspension, it is plenty enough for me as my primary driver, if I ever do upgrade, it will be a carefully thought out purchase as I do not want to give up daily usage for a handful of forays to the track or autoX course. All of the comparisons to other cars in and around the price range are apples and oranges to me. I’ve had cars up to the $65K range including a Cayman S and an E46 M3 and I CHOSE the JCW because that’s what I wanted. I didn’t go out cross shopping the 135, the 370Z, the Cobalt SS, or even the new M3, any of which I could have bought. This may be blasphemy for some of you but I don’t want to mod my car much, and it seems like the most outrage about the new JCW is from those that do.
For what it is, the JCW is fine. The cost of development went into the engine, brakes and tranny. These costs are HUGE! Suspension would have been nice but more people drive ON ROAD then at the track. If the coin would have been flipped, people would be complaining about the “harsh” ride. Go figure people. They went for the sweet spot, middle of the road and i think they hit it but barely.
Why is everyone comparing the MINI to the Nissan Z? When I saw it I went zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It’s got no soul. Don’t get me wrong, I think they’ve come a long way, its pretty nice, but not nice enough for me to consider it. I have to fall in love with the car in order for me to buy it. I don’t know what it is about the Japanese. Even the MINI, invokes, inspires emotion (“its cute” okay so whatever). Look at a Porsche…wow, a Ferrari, a Lambo…then you have the Japanese offering..zzzzzzzzzz You can have the cheaper, faster, boring car…I’ll drive my slow, expensive, fun, cute car any day.
The seats do have to be the same for most HPDE’s/driving schools. Bobby, that’s great that your chapter of BMWCCA doesn’t care about the seats, but I can tell you that our chapter wouldn’t let you on the track, nor will many other drivers schools. Most require same seat/same harness, you’re lucky you’ve found a couple of places that don’t…
Hope that answers it for you Lava, maybe come to the track someday so you can get a better understanding…
Oh and one other thing…We’re arguing about wether the seats should be equal, but not WHY they should be. It’s about offering an instructor/passenger the same level of safety/protection/comfort as the driver. Driving on the track is potentially dangerous (in fact a very good driver of a MINI was killed this past year in California on an open track day, and he had a 4 point harness), and I have an incredible amount of respect for any instructor crazy enough to get in the car with me, especially after hearing some of the stories and close calls they put with. It’s the least you can do to offer them the same level of comfort and safety as you’re giving yourself. I’ve seen instructors refuse to get in cars that weren’t properly equipped, much to the consternation of the driver who paid a bunch of money for an HPDE. It’s clearly spelled out for the clubs I run with.
BMW has really, really promoted the MINI’s racing heritage (both with this generation and the previous one), and its an incredible shame that they’ve used this exploitatively for advertising without giving us access to a balls out, no compromise performance variant. A limited edition ‘special’ JCW, whatever, just give us the goods!
There you have it, some tracks won’t allow different seats, some people don’t like the way it looks. Others are exactly contrary. Results inconclusive. Sounds like a good no cost option to me.
To those with a JCW worrying about the JCW suspension ride quality: you would be surprised how compliant it is, and you would be AMAZED at how much improved accelerating, turning, and braking are with the JCW suspension fitted.
As some owners have chimed in above, the cost of the JCW suspension along with the fact that it is a dealer-installed item only and so not available for most buyers to try out is a poor move from BMW. And I would bet it has led to the majority of JCWs sold to date running around with inadequate suspension tuning (either stock or sport option). Since the most powerful (or at least honest) product marketing is the product itself, this is regrettable.
Nice read Goat, ditto on both of your comments! I have an 06 JCW with the suspension upgrade, couldn’t agree more.
Lava, way to change the subject. That wasn’t the arguement; The issue was wether the seats should be on both sides or just on one. Now we’ve gotten to it being a no cost option…
As for the 370 Z post above, I agree if you’re looking for something sporty/practical, it doesn’t make sense to cross shop a 370 Z. But at the pricepoint that the 370 Z is at, and especially after Nismo tightens it up (and probably still keep it reasonably priced), you’ve got one heck of a performance bargain. Nismo will do to the 370 Z what we hoped BMW would do for the JCW…I’ve never been a big Nissan fan, but there is a reason there is so much buzz about the GT-R, and now the 370.
But for track rats, the MINI is appealing, but at the JCW price, the 370 Z is very appealing. The interior is FINALLY high quality, and the rev matching manual is not only a first on a production car, but from what I’ve read is an absolute blast to drive. I’m not the only one who loves MINI’s who is drooling over the 370 Z buy the way, maybe the only one on this board though….
From a performance standpoint, the 370 is almost as fast as a Cayman S–the difference in straight line speed is negligible (although that may change with the 2010 tweaks to the Cayman S, but I doubt it will be dramatic). If the 370 was a bit lighter, I’d definitely get one. I’m still leaning toward getting one, depending on what Nimsmo does, and what BMW does with the next gen. MINI (Or perhaps a special edition like the GP of the current MINI).
My question is why does BMW/MINI have to design everything to the lowest common denominator. Why can’t they make a JCW MINI that will not appeal to everyone? Why can’t they make a real performance car that will appeal to the dedicated, fantical, die hard, motorer and the heck with the general public and their soft, squishy, vague, boring cars?
If they are going to make a JCW MINI it should be as hard edged as possible. Designed to perform right out of the box. All of the performance goodies right from the factory. A strong motor, a loud exhaust, tight suspension, a real LSD, really light wheels(not just wheels called lite), Recaro seats, etc. No faux carbon fiber add ons, if it isn’t structural then it should not be there.
If they want to offer a carbon fiber bonnet that’s fine. But do not load it up with leather upholstery, a nav system, a sun roof, or carbon looking plastic aero packages. Keep it a lean, mean, performance machine.
That’s my $0.02
Bilbo Baggins – amen!
The new factory JCW in US spec is a spade (but sadly not the ace), and driving enthusiast MINI owners should call BMW on it. Thanks to Gabe for posting this thread and giving us a forum for doing just that.
I got my ’09 JCW in September w/ the $500 suspension upgrade. Plenty of power to get myself in trouble! You certainly feel the bumps with the slightly stiffer suspension – really wouldn’t want it any stiffer unless on the track. The exhaust system gives it a great sound. Don’t know why anyone would drive it w/ the Sport button not engaged. After 5000 miles, almost entirely in town, averaging 25.5 mpg w/ my foot in more often than not. Hard to find a better performance / mileage combination.
Overall, I look forward to getting off work and heading out to the car at the end of the day for the drive home. Would like to have more markings to distinguish from the standard Mini both on the exterior, interior and under the hood. The upgraded suspension should be standard. Also, car should have more instrumentation than a speedometer and tach. And last, deeper sport seats would be good. Beyond that, I’d leave it to the individual to order or customize as they see fit.
Yeah, count me in as praying in the house of Bilbo too…
I don’t have anything against the JCW, heck it’s a good car, and if BMW thinks a hardcore JCW won’t sell compared to what they’ve put out, I’m ok with that. But more and more manufacturers are building special editions of cars that are street legal, but are essentially track ready–BBK’s, DCT’s, adjustable suspensions, etc–with the MINI’s reputation, it is the perfect platform for this type of thing.
How about a JCW “Challenge” edition, a limited edition harking back to the old 37 heritage? They already have the challenge series car, so the R and D is there–maybe something street legal, halfway between the current JCW and the challenge car, and I think we have a winner. If they do that, I hope the built in pneumatic jacks are an option, man those things are sweet! Build a couple of thousand of those puppies, price them reasonable, there is no doubt they’ll sell.
I just checked prices on the US and the UK web site….
The JCW is $29.2k base here in the US, including destination.
In the UK, it’s 20,880 pounds, or at todays rate of 1 pound = 1.5172 dollars, it’s $31,679.14 That’s a $1700 difference, and they don’t have to ship the car to the UK! They got to make up that cost somehow, or just take a lower profit per car. Personally, I’d rather have a high power stripper available that I could customize via the factory or myself, instead of having everything bolted on that I had no choice about but had to pay for.
While the call for many individualized parts makes sense from the point of uniqueness, if the parts are only on JCW cars, they’ll cost a lot as economy of scale won’t come into play. This will make it harder to maintain price competitiveness when there are so many cars out there offering a high degree of competence at similar or lower prices.
Really, there’s not a lot of wiggle room for BMW/Mini when it comes to making the JCW “M-like” without pricing it out of the marketplace.
Did they do a pretty good job with what’s offered now? I honestly don’t know. But I can appreciate how hard it is to skin this particular cat….
Matt
Matt, I agree with you in that the best case scenario would be to buy a stripped down R56 MCS and mod it yourself–and for the R53, there are plenty of tuners to help out with that, one of the beauties of the R53 is that it is so mod friendly. The R56 is another story however–the HP of the JCW is still only 210, but with that aluminum block, it required substantial bolstering of the various engine components to take the wear and tear just to that level. If you mod a stock R56, those internals aren’t going to be upgraded (or if upgraded would be so prohibitively expensive that you might as well get the JCW then mod that). You can get a ton of HP out of the iron block Tritec with no worries, but the aluminum R56, while a fantastic engine in its own right, is not all that conducive to heavy modification–at least not yet. And when you throw the ECU into the mix, it becomes even more dicey…By this time in the R53’s life cycle, tuners were going crazy–comparatively speaking, there hasn’t been nearly as much aftermarket craziness with the R56.
That’s why I hope there will be a reasonably priced, otherwise stripped down hardcore MINI variant at some point from the factory–I’d be very leery to mod a stock MCS beyond maybe the exhaust…
cct1 – its been know that they did not have a US compliant passenger seat and they are not willing to make one with the weigh sensor. I don’t think there is anything to argue there. You are saying (if I’m understanding you) that because some track events, or most track events if you wish, won’t accept a car with different seats/restraints that its not worthwhile offering the seat on the drivers side. I don’t agree, and I’m at least not alone in that.
Sat in a 370z today (too much snow to drive). What an improvement over the 350z! Interior materials are very high quality. Nothing feels cheap or cost effective. In person it is spectacular looking. Great 19″ wheels. Lower,shorter,wider. Big improvements in suspension. 332HP! And loaded it’s in the mid 30’s. That’s a moderately equiped JCW. Mini better get it’s act together. This is the best performance value ever. And it is beautiful. Not a fast but ughly Evo or Subaru.
I have a 09 JCW. Its ALL loaded up with leather and every option except Nav and I LOVE it. I am getting the JCW suspension. It definitely needs it. I just ordered it today.
I agree with Gabe and have been saying this to friends, family and online, the car must come with the JCW aero kit and JCW suspension. We are being ripped off. BMW/MINI should definitely make those changes. Other than that I am quite happy and to be honest if the JCW came with those additions and I was unable to add leather, NAV, premium package, cold weather package etc then I would not have been interested in the car. I am not interested in a stripped down car.
I came from an 06 BMW 330i. That was an awesome car. The MINI is very cool but its not a BMW. Not the way it drives or handles or its build quality. But its a cool, fun and quirky car to drive and that is what gets me excited about it.
So I will have the JCW suspension installed and replace the crappy run flat tires with normal tires in the spring or the summer and I will be a happy camper.
Bottom line…its your time and money. Do what you want, buy what you want. You can’t buy a car that does not exist. The JCW the ways its configured was the right car for me at the time I purchased it.
Still have to say this fever about the GTR and 370 are pretty well lost on me. Sure they are notable for their performance but still at the end of the day they look just like a typical Japanese car which in a great many ways most tend to look like they are small tweaks on a common design ethic. At the end of the day what do you have, ohhh a Nissan (yawn). My other huge issue with cars from Japan lately including the GTR is that the driver is hidden so far behind layers of technology that don’t do much to leave them driver cars.
Guess different strokes for different folks though. I just would rather drive any number of European cars long before most Japanese cars. Similar builds but something about the underlying character is so different.
cct – a proper competition seat will be sized to fit the driver, while an OEM seat is designed to fit just about anybody. Many folks just can’t fit in my seat (too narrow) but everybody can fit in the stock passenger seat in comfort, and they get a bonus side airbag for safety. Also, if I had two fixed-back seats, there would be no way to access the rear seats, which would be just plain silly. So a driver-side only competition seat is not only cost-effective but very practical, imo.
The issue though is that a single seat isn’t going to make or break the JCW Mini. Its a superb product left short of being a performance car. It lacks unique character and generally feels like something developed by a committee.
My only hope is for a GP styled car at then end of the production of the R56 product line. I would bet if they made another 2,000 very special models they would be gone in a heartbeat. Until then I will “suffer” in my GP. Maybe no longer the fastest Mini but has more character than the JCW Mini by lightyesrs.
I agree the GTR is UGHLY!! Really dig the 370z though at half the price. Doubters need to see it in person.
Keeping my JCW though.
This makes 66 comments. It’s obvious that this is a hot topic vs the more frequently dispayed stories about you know what….zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Bobby, the chances of getting a properly fitted competition seat from the dealer are slim to none, unless you’re buying a Ferrari. If you’re going to compete solo in SCCA/Autotox, then a driver’s side only competition seat makes sense, but that’s a whole different demographic…
Greg, have you seen the GT-R in person? I thought it was ugly too–until I saw it in the flesh. It’s drop dead gorgeous in real life. The 370 Z looks good in pictures, but it too needs to be seen in real life–it has unmistakable nods to Porsche, especially from behind. Truly a beautiful car. And as already mentioned, the interior is top notch. Nissan hit a home run with this car, BMW only hit maybe a double with the JCW. A shame really…
Jon, I don’t get the “Japanese” put down–it smacks of snobbery. Audi and Nissan have been trading design cues over the past several year with regard to the TT and Z–so I suppose you hate Audi now too? They were German the last time I checked. The Z is hardly a “typical” car of any sort, that’s extremely shortsighted. It now competes (and bang for the buck) betters its european rivals. I have never been a huge Nissan fan, but its time to give them some props.
And as for the GT-R hiding the driver behind layers of technology, that’s the very same sentiment thats been echoed about the M3. Like it or not, at this point european/japanese design and performance is becoming more similar than different.
What I said about the design philosophy generally behind Japanese cars wasn’t meant to be a slam. There are a lot of shared design worldwide, however there is a lot of design that is repeated in broad geographic area’s, Japanese cars tend to look like they are developed there, American cars tend to feel like they are developed here, and European cars tend to feel the same. I have had a chance to drive a GTR and a new M3 both are cars that are quite stellar performers. The body on the GTR is less than stellar to me and the technology between the driver and the car dwarfs that of the M3. The GTR has more of the feeling of sitting in the cabin of a 747 in many ways.
The 370 is a much better exterior design, however I would still say that given the scope of a few years the Mini brand will still be iconic while the 370 will be another Nissan. Think about the long term collectible nature of both cars and I would have to say the Mini stands a much better chance of becoming a classic. Even a questionable half measured JCW Mini 😉
Jon, Fair enough. I think the new 370 Z however, does have a great chance to be a collectible. I think the original version of the MINI, and especially the GP, will forever remain iconic.
I’m not so sure about wether the current JCW will be that much more iconic than the current model R56 MCS, time will tell. For all its positives, I don’t think the R56 will be as much of a collectible either–we’re hitting the point of saturation and brand dilution, and MINI has become something quite different than what was originally intended/expected by BMW. I’m not faulting BMW for that, they took advantage of an unexpected good fortune (and who wouldn’t?) but I’m not so sure how collectible the 2nd generation (and next generations from here on out) will be.
I hear what your saying on that, think BMW/Mini missed a huge opportunity though on the JCW Mini. They had a once in a lifetime chance to introduce the JCW as a sub-brand. However the product they turned out lacks any chance of being something unique. Also as if the lack of it being visually unique it also lacks a clear statement on what this car if for. The problem is they will never get this chance again to really make a statement for the JCW brand, there will always be this mess of a message car floating around out there. In a great many ways I think the JCW branding should now be left for kit products and just build a ///M Mini. ///M already is broadly the brains behind the current car and with the introduction of a SUV think historical precedence is pretty well over.
I think the R50-3 will be collectable because of the realitively low numbers produced, but the R56 will ultimately be more favored by collectors who drive their cars for its performance. But fans of both cars will always have their wishful predictions.
Lava, that would be totally opposite of what happens with most cars that become collectibles…The first year MINI’s will always do better than even the first generation refreshed (which I own), and the first generation will always hold more value than the second and future generations. It’s the way the market works, especially for cars. With most collectors, epecially something like the MINI, performance is not the overriding issue. If it were, the very latest modal would be a collectible, as performance generally improves with each generation. Case in point is the original mini–although the performance of the very first year mini is not that overwhelming compared to subsequent generations, which would you rather own? For my bank account, that’s an easy answer, and its directly comparable to the new MINI.
And if you’re arguing from a performance standpoint, if you were collecting, you’d want the car to run as long as it could with original parts. Want to take any bets which engine will be more reliable after a 100,000 miles–the very simple (albeit less refined) iron Tritech, or the very complicated (although more refined) aluminum twin scroll turbo? I know which one you’ll pick, and it wouldn’t be the one most mechanics would pick…
Lavardera, I am spewing yogurt out of my nose…
Also the cast iron block, SOHC TRITEC engine will outlast and outlive the aluminum and far more complex Turbocharged Prince engine.
Simplicity wins everytime when it comes to the long term…
When you expose a German to a simple Corvette Coupe (The plain version, not the Z06, etc) they come out of the car saying….”This is a perfectly good sports car….Why people pay $50K for a new BMW 3 series?”
I think the German and Japanese auto industries have already hit the point of technological saturation.
The Germans are hardcore high tech fans. But such love for all things high tech comes at a high price as well.
Sure older models of a give car will always be more valuable, and durability never prevented collecting as much as thinned the numbers. I’m saying that greater numbers, history as a higher performing model, will mean more people collecting R56s than the older cars, and hence a more popular, if not more valuable, collecter’s car. My apologies to C4 for causing him to mess himself..
Yes I saw the GTR in person and I realize it is the ultimate performance bang for the buck IMO it has no asthetic appeal at all. I find it as unattractive as an EVO or Scubydoo. Now if you want to see a COOL car check ouit the Audi TTS! Wow! Fast too! I would almost consider one even though it only comes if a steptronic. I sat in that without a drive as well.
Reposting this since it seems to be locked in moderation heh.
I hear what your saying on that, think BMW/Mini missed a huge opportunity though on the JCW Mini. They had a once in a lifetime chance to introduce the JCW as a sub-brand. However the product they turned out lacks any chance of being something unique. Also as if the lack of it being visually unique it also lacks a clear statement on what this car if for. The problem is they will never get this chance again to really make a statement for the JCW brand, there will always be this mess of a message car floating around out there. In a great many ways I think the JCW branding should now be left for kit products and just build a M Mini. M already is broadly the brains behind the current car and with the introduction of a SUV think historical precedence is pretty well over.
I’ll echo what a few have said here.
As an AMG owner I’m very disappointed I got very little visual differentiation from a based R56S for my significant up-charge. For a few $, an R56S owner can easily turn their car into a Factory JCW Clone.
As an AMG owner, I’m beyond disappointed, I’m disgusted that I didn’t get the “Stage 1 JCW Airbox” on the “Factory ‘Stage 2’ JCW Car” but rather the based stock R56S airbox. [said with a british accent faking a french accent] “BMW, I fart in your general direction”!
<blockquote>the R56 will ultimately be more favored by collectors who drive their cars for its performance</blockquote>
Or at least those collectors who prefer numb steering and an overly soft suspension…
yes, but not the collectors who prefer to grasp to the few straws where they can posture some sort of superiority…
For most collectors two main points are usually some of the biggest. Collectors usually go after cars with smaller run numbers and often either first or last editions of particular models.
I think the original R50 is likely to be a collectible because of being both first and smaller production numbers. I also believe the 06 GP will of course stay near the top of the collectible list because of its very limited numbers and mechanical upgrades. I believe the R56 that will end up being the most collectible will be that last year of the current production when most of the teething problems are finally worked out of the R56 production. Models like the JCW factory car will likely hold some value but think it will be out performed by MC-40, collectors go heavily after cars that are visually unique in general.
The 370Z does not start under $30k. <strong>Autoweek</strong>, 1/12/09, p.9 <em>Nissan 370Z pricing</em>: “The base 370Z with a six-speed manual transmission carries a suggested retail price of $30,625”
Sorry, ~$31k is not under $30k. And this is a dedicated sports car, as someone else has already mentioned, no back seat, etc. Also, you’re buying a Nissan. For instance, do they offer 3yr/36k no-cost maintenance?
MSRP on a nissan means you can walk out the door at MSRP if not a little under (under california taxes, and assuming your bargaining power).
$25K MSRP on a mini means $25K + TTL + ridiculous prices for options that should have been standard.
you can keep your 3yrs/36K no-cost maintenance at that price point. and as much as i dont like nissan products (or the company as a whole), they have better reliability than any european car. the japanese companies dont have to pull this no cost junk because their cars dont need them to sell…
Know more than one 350z owner over the years that would laugh out loud if they heard how reliable Nissans (aka Datsun’s are). Guess at the end of the day though Datsun fanboi’s can head on over to the Nissan site 😉
2003-2008 Nissan 350Z Reliability
Trouble Spots
Consumer Guide’s® Auto Editors have scoured repair bulletins and questioned mechanics to search for commonly occurring problems for a particular vehicle. In some cases we also give possible manufacturer-suggested solutions. In many instances these trouble spots are Technical Service Bulletins posted by the manufacturer, however, we have our own expert looking at additional vehicle problems.
Brake noise: Using brake pads other that the original non-asbestos organic linings (even OEM Nissan “Key Value” brand) may result in brake noises or difference in feel. (2003-06)
Cold-starting problems: In very cold weather (10 degrees F or below) following a cold soak, the starter may not work after a short trip requiring replacement of the intelligent power distribution module. (2003-06)
Cold-starting problems: The engine may not restart after a short trip (less than 10 minutes) in very cold weather (less than 10 degrees F), requiring replacement of the power distribution module. (2004)
Dashboard lights: The tire pressure warning lamp will glow steadily when the car is started if the long-term storage fuse (also called electronic parts fuse) is temporarily removed. (2003-04)
Engine knock: Knocking or ticking noises coming from the engine compartment at idle may be due to pulses in the fuel line for which a revised damper and hose are available. (2003-06)
Engine temperature: The idle speed may become too high after normal service to clean the throttle body because the computer has learned the old idle air value so the computer’s values must be reset. (2002-05)
Hood/trunk: The rear hatch may not pop up when the release is activated due to weakened lift springs near the gas charged supports. (2003)
Vehicle noise: Clicking noises from the rear (one or both sides) may be due to premature wear of the rear constant-velocity joints at the outer axle ends. (2003-04
Remember this isn’t about how collectible the JCW is or about how good the 370 is. This is about trying to communicate to BMW/Mini that they need to re-address the JCW Mini.
Peter. I have read elsewhere where the base msrp is under $30k. Besides, if msrp is $35k a smart buyer can walk out with a car at $33500. They are trying to sell cars unlike Mini who just takes orders.
Peter, Nissan’s own website has the base manual Z starting at 29,930, which is what I’ve seen quoted everywhere else except what you posted….
I just purchased a 370Z touring with sport package, Nav package, fully loaded for $39K.
Performance wise there is no comparison, it out corners, out sprints and out brakes my Mini Cooper S JCW in every way. with a smoother ride and no torque steer. 🙂
I should note that my Mini has only the stage 1 JCW kit, but I have added sway bars, Eibach springs, Eibach adjustable control arms and Ireland camber plates.
With that said, they are too different animals, but without a doubt buyers who are considering purchasing the JCW will also consider the 370Z. I was one of them, I feel Mini really missed the mark on the factory JCW, just not enough difference from the dealer kit and not unique enough.
Dont get me wrong, I love the Mini, it’s a great little car, but were talking JCW, this is supposed to be the top PERFOMANCE car in the mini line. John Cooper was known for his RACING Minis. Performance to dollars compared to a lot of other vehicles out there, it just doesn’t cut it.
Sure it has a back seat, but I’ve rarely used it, I have a 6yr old and a 15yr old, but when we go places I take the SUV. There are probably very few families out there with children that are considering purchasing the Factory JCW as their only vehicle. Face it people buy this car for the performance. If your buying based on looks, then just by the Mini Cooper S and save yourself $6K
Like I said, I love the Mini for a lot of reasons, but I wanted a performance car and the Factory JCW just couldn’t deliver dollar for dollar.
Give me an AWD JCW with 250-300hp at 40K and I’ll be right there. There are plenty of R53 Mini’s out there that are running those numbers with aftermarket parts, so I’m sure the factory can do it.
Come on Mini, it’s embarrassing getting passed by a 20yr old in a Chevy Colbalt SS.
Let the bashing begin……….. LOL 🙂
did I mention that I love the Mini 😉
Braden
Braden. Well said. I hope Mini is listening. $39k for a loaded sports car that beats the JCW in every way except a back seat. I bet 99% of all JCW buyers would opt to have no back seat if it saved weight(R56 GP?).
I paid $39k for my 2007 stage one JCW. How long does Mini think they will sell this car when the competition is blowing them away in price/performance ratio?
I know at Classic Mini in Cleveland they have sold exactly ZERO factory JCWs and they have three sitting on the lot since July. Still won’t bargain either.
Hey Mini. WAKE UP!
For those that continue to compare the 2009 Nissan 370Z to the MINI JCW, here’s the latest numbers from Road & Track:
Make / Model: MINI JCW vs. NISSAN 370Z
Base Price: $29,200 – $30,625
Engine size L / BHP: 1.6 / 208 – 3.7 / 332
0-60 MPH: 6.0 – 5.1
0-100 MPH: 14.8 – 12.8
1/4 Mile ET: 14.4 @ 98.9 – 13.7 @103.6
Top Speed MPH: 147 – 155
200′ Skidpad: .91g – .97g
700′ Slalom MPH: 71.3 – 71.4
Braking 60-0 MPH: 121 ft – 117 ft
Braking 80-0 MPH: 210 ft – 197 ft
EPA Fuel economy: 26 / 34 – 18 / 26
In my opinion, given the fact that the JCW is a 4 seat FWD coupe, has a much smaller engine (and would NEVER be raced on a track in the same class), it performs pretty damn well against an excellent sports car. It’s very close to the Nissan in ultimate braking and handling figures, has better economy, and offers good acceleration and top speed, despite the disadvantages the MINI has in engine size, drive configuration and aerodynamics. Give MINI some credit.
Also, note that the Road & Track test car had the standard stock suspension, NOT the sport or JCW upgrade.
Therefore handle like **** a poor comparison as the 370z is much better equiped and will blow the JCW away. Unless you drop $2k for the suspension it’s a joke. And I think we have acertained that the base Z is under 30k.
From the Nissan website:
Z® Coupe
From: $29,930â€
†All prices are Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). MSRP excludes destination and handling charges, tax, title, license and options. Dealer sets actual price.
—
How many dealers are going to let the car go for that? True, there may be some. I doubt most will. But all things considered, add on your TTL and destination, you’re going to be above $30k. The MINI price includes destination, but not TTL, true.
Not to start a fire here, but please next time show a source. “I read somewhere” does not hold any weight.
On another note, I don’t consider 3yr/36k a cop-out to get people to buy a car. Sure, it’s an incentive, but it’s a good one. Cost of ownership is something that most buyers will consider once they get past the emotional stage of the purchase. MINI is doing all they can to keep that low. My cost of ownership for my first 3/36? $0. I’m trading it in, getting my EXCELLENT resale value, and putting that down on a new JCW. Try doing that with a 3-yr old 370Z.
<p>look ok but how much for extrs wow ha ha,have a mini gtt 240bhp myself, there are better tunig conpany out there but not at that price!</p>