[pictobrowser bridger 72157607206818160]
BMW confirmed the lamest excuse for a secret in the automotive world today when it officially approved the MINI Crossover Concept for production. As most MF readers will know, BMW has been working on the Crossover for years now with hand-built drivetrain prototypes starting tests way back in late 2007. In fact BMW currently has Munich built prototypes doing winter testing in Arctic circle.
Edmunds was on hand at the European Convertible launch and got this official statement from MINI:
>”After going over the large amount of feedback from experts and the public, we approved the Crossover for production just four weeks after it debuted at the Paris show,” says head of Mini brand management Wolfgang Armbrecht.
As we’ve reported for over a year, look for the Crossover to be offered as both front-wheel drive and all-wheel drive and have four full sized doors (unlike the concept).
>Mini exterior design boss Marcus Syring says the production design will be revealed at the 2009 Frankfurt Auto Show in September, promising: “It will look very much like a Mini SUV needs to look.”
>Armbrecht said the Crossover will launch first as a front-wheel-drive urban mini SUV; an optional BMW-X-drive-derived four-wheel-drive system will go on sale later. Both are set to be built by Magna Steyr in Graz, Austria.
However the most interesting part of the news came when they started talking specifics about pricing and drivetrains:
>The Crossover in Cooper trim with front-wheel drive will start just above the base price for a Cooper S convertible: around $29,000. A Cooper S four-wheel-drive Crossover should be priced at or above $34,000. Since style and functionality are more the point than sportiness, there will be no John Cooper Works edition of the Crossover.
>Mini says the 1.6-liter engine could be twin-turbocharged at some point for a future top version beyond the Cooper S. Europe will get diesel engines capable of up to 45 mpg but, as usual, North America won’t. All markets will receive the four-wheel-drive version with a serious lower range of crawling gears.
The twin-turbocharged engine will likely not appear before the Crossover debuts in late 2009 and may not even surface until the next generation MINI starts production sometime around 2012.
+ Coming in 2011: Mini Crossover / Inside Line
I am speechless. MINI this is a bad decision. Perhaps not too late to pull the plug.
No doubt BMW will dilute the JCW brand with a “Crossover John Cooper Works.” As they have now chosen the ruin the ///M brand with the ///M X5/X6, why not ruin the JCW brand as well.
With that outrageous pricing, it should at least be a decent cash cow. Based on past CDN pricing, looks like these things will run $35K – $45K CDN depending on powertrain and options… wow… that’s well-equipped B7 A4 quattro pricing!
The AWD versions will at least have credibility, but given the pricing I imagine many Canucks will sadly shop the less expensive FWD version, sufficiently impressed with the higher ride and larger interior size compared to the Cooper/Clubman.
Second that C4. Seems like a great way to further drive Mini into being just another car. So far the R56 has met good reviews, the JCw also. Yet nothing close to the feeling of the reviews for the R50/R53. Instead of keeping the buzz alive for the brand they made a ok step forward with the R56 though as most will agree the Interior is a mess. The Clubman has gotten decent reviews yet still has similar issues. The JCW is just a lark when it comes to being a performance vehicle. Now lets bring a SUV into the ranks to really drive home the brands mediocrity.
I have no doubt that many will sell but can pretty much believe this is going to widely destroy the image of what a Mini is, and more than a few in the community will never accept a SUV as being needed by the brand.
Guess my only hope now is a complete global meltdown of the auto industry to cut all new car development and manufacturing by BMW/Mini. Just also very happy Sir Alec didn’t survive to see this assault bearing the name of a Mini.
I think I just threw up a little bit. What an abomination of a vehicle! They’d better rename the company MAXI if they’re going to sell this one!
On the other hand, I am looking forward to that twin turbocharged engine in MINI release v3.0.
Despite liking the concept of 2 “real” seats, I hope they put a standard bench seat in the back of the final production model. It’ll make it a lot more practical, especially for people with pets.
Even after shelling out $36k for my MCSC, $34k – before any options – sounds damn expensive for a MINI. Could get an X3. And at this point I’m not sure which is uglier.
Honestly, for that kind of cash, I would steer towards getting a brand new BMW 328 SportWagon and do Euro delivery on the thing. It seems to me the 3 series wagon will not have the “MINI thing” (But hey this R60 doesn’t look MINI to me either) but it is a fine damn good car, 6 cyl in line engine, RWD, 50/50 weight distribution and about the same space as the R60. Not to mention it looks much better too and doesn’t have that Toyota FJ Cruiser stigma either.
For some reason people don’t like station wagons. Too bad, their loss.
I wonder how far the compass/ World globe design (which i talked about back in 2005) will go into the production MINI?
Oh, and let me guess it will have its offical opening for the 50th in UK.
A new BMW 328i Sportwagon retails for $35,400. With Euro delivery I can get it for $32,920. For $2K-$3K more you get a much better car in every respect. Sorry MINI, I think you royally blew it this time with the R60.
I don’t care about high road clearance or AWD. Not very MINI if you ask me.
It’s slightly amusing that the BMW X1 looks to be slightly smaller than the MINI crossover concept, and will (probably) be significantly cheaper. Looks like BMW maybe a direct competitor of….itself.
As for me, I don’t want no stinkin’ small MINI; when BMW builds a MINI concept the size of a Hummer, with comparable estimated MPG’s, maybe then I’ll buy one…
It’s been bugging me a long time as to where I saw that globe thingy first, last nite I saw it, it’s at the end of Jon Stewart’s desk on the Daily Show! Whew, now I can sleep at nite!
I look forward to the day when a new Mini is announced that isn’t bigger, heavier and more expensive than the current range.
It took a while for the Clubman to grow on me–so I’ll hold off judgment again until I see the production version. I was really just hoping for an extended wheelbase MINI wagon with 4 doors and a hatch, at a reasonable price. $30-35K is going to be tough. I hope the number crunchers get this one right–I would hate for this cow to kill the brand.
So where’s this stupid thing going to get built? Not Oxford?
Magna-Styer plant in Austria. Same factory that builds the current BMW X3 under contract.
It says right in the article. By Magna Steyr in Austria where the current X3 is manufactured. You all are way too critical. This vehicle is going to do well I’ll tell you. We already have a few depsoits for it from almost two years ago. More to come too. Cannot wait to see it in the flesh.
Mark, I am sure it will sell well. And yes, we all reserve the right to be critical. Last I checked this is still a free country.
When the thing gets here, I will definitely check it out. However, I am not a fan of SUVs or “Crossovers” of whatever you wanna call pigs wearing silk.
This vehicle is simply wrong for MINI. But I am sure the bean counters built an enough convincing case to green light it. They reason that if Porsche got away building the hideous Cayenne, why can’t they?
I hope this vehicle does not bomb in the market place. A $35K glorified MINI wagon is hard to swallow in these financial times we are living in. I guess BMW is counting on leasing as many as they can, because after all, they have built up their entire business model on leasing.
SUV lovers will be all over this one. I am not one of them. I despise glorified trucks. They have their place and use.
I am afraid that MINI has deviated lots of development $$$ to bring this pig to market. I wished I had seen the same determination and funds use to improve on the existing product line, bring over the diesels, etc.
MINI has officially become just another car company. Ready to cater to the masses and be everything for everyone.
German executives don’t care. They don’t listen. They think their way is the the only way. Fine. But I hope you don’t have a rude awakening if this thing flops out there.
So what’s next after the R60? A semi? Dump truck? Honestly, I would have been a lot happier with a MINI pickup than this shrunken version of the Toyota FJ Cruiser.
By the way, if you dig the looks of this thing, go and get the real article at your nearest Toyota dealer.
I will reserve final judgment until it’s release, but so far nothing about this car seems right to my eyes. From the bloated back end to the roof and beltline treatments, it appears to me that the design was arrived at by a number of separate teams that weren’t aware of what each was doing. Not the way to celebrate 50 years of Mini, IMHO, nor does it seem the right time to roll out a MINI in this price territory.
MINI is also pricing themselves out of the market. And like someone else said here earlier, they are competing against themselves with other BMW products in the same price bracket.
BMW is forgetting that MINI is the perfect combination of value, performance and good looks. The reason why the 1st gen cars were so successful it was because you were getting a lot of car for the money being paid.
With the R56 and R55 that value ratio has been gradually lost. And I see this downward trend with the R60.
I am sorry but when you have a MINI that starts at $30K (And is is not a performance or special edition model) something is seriously wrong with the equation. Between $30K-$40K there is a slew of fine product from BMW and the competition.
The success of MINI has gone to their heads.
Just makes one wonder…
“After going over the large amount of feedback from experts and the public”
So far I have read very very few positive stories about this development. I have read a lot of hostile comments on most Mini forums about the car. Makes one wonder what “public” they spoke to.
Think they should also fire their experts.
This development stands in direct opposition to EVERY thing Sir Alec stood for and believed in.
Hang your heads in shame BMW/Mini!
Check out any of the new spyshots of the crossover in typical BMW camo that just came out. Seriously ugly beast.
While I don’t agree with the usual R56 bashing that seems to creep in from some, regardless of the topic, I do agree with the price criticisms. I love my R56 MC and at a little over 21K it is a nice car, and still a great value lightly configured. The same could be said for the MCS starting at just under 22, lightly configured, a nice balance of performance and economy. The Clubmans I feel are also in this category not having too much of a price differential step up from the hatchback.
But lately, current price news is somewhat disheartening. JCW versions almost 8 grand over their normal MCS versions, a new convertible at 6 grand above the normal hatchback prices, and now a SUV variant starting in the JCW price territory.
In the article on the mini one clubman coming out in the UK, I commented, and still believe, that there isn’t much need for the one here, but there is a real need to pay attention to the lower end of the price spectrum and that market as well, by keeping versions of these cars available here that the average person can reasonably afford.
The article says the “big” MINI will be a maximum of 4 meters long (157.5-inches) which is only 2.5-inches longer than my Clubman. I think this is the first time I’ve actually seen the proposed overall length, and it appears to be incorrect to me. It looks so much larger in all the photos I’ve seen. Has anyone actually seen the prototype in person? What do you think?
The length isn’t the issue, the width is nearly that of a Rav4 and the height puts it well above the rest of the Mini family.
How do prices and specs compare with the BMW X1? Aren’t they built on the same platform, and wouldn’t sales cannibalize each other?
>How do prices and specs compare with the BMW X1? Aren’t they built on the same platform, and wouldn’t sales cannibalize each other?
There’s some component sharing but it’s not the wholesale platform.
I definitely hope this new radical MINI does well, but I would of liked to have seen a little more attention paid to Minis past especially for the 50th. I think Cooper Moke / Cooper S Moke/ John Cooper Works Moke would have been a better name choices for the car and if this new version had played more to the seriously oddball styling of the old 4-wheel drive (dual-engined!) hatch, I believe it overall will be more successful. I’m still enticed to see the production version more so the interior because this will pave the way for future MINIs.
I do agree MINI needs to focus more on the mini(ature) side of design especially with products like Mazda 2 and Toyota iQ on the streets passively making current MINI products be quite unlike the original. Something a bit shorter and even two seats called Coop or Midget – this is where development needs to be focused.
E-gads! I fancy the design team spent too much time trying to copy the high beltline and profile of the Murano and other current big-rumped SUV “crossovers”. I hate the sensation of being enclosed in shrunken windows, and the look is rather mean- is this what modern driving has become?
This is an example of a car company joining the herd with a belated entry. Take a little bit of all the other models out there, and feature what- more cupholders and door openings?
I agree with the above post that I’ll be excited when the newest MINI is smaller than the last version! And I will say to the wind, “Turbo Diesel”?
I dunno what bugs me more, the Mini SUV or all the arm-chair product managers around here.
i hope the economy kills this thing before it even gets off the ground. forget about an suv and going against everything they stand for. if anything give us an AWD drivetrain! also what would be wrong with a lightweight 2 seat MINI coupe?
I do hope that it has the two cool doors in the production model but I am not holding my breath. Will I buy one? No, most likely not. Will I whine about MINI making an SUV? Uh… no.
“It will look very much like a Mini SUV needs to look.â€
Anyone else have a problem with this statement ??
A MINI doesn’t need to look like an SUV or indeed be an SUV, surely the development dollars for this would have been better spent on creating a lightweight (GP Style) or hydrogen powered MINI.
I hate it personally, but like i’ve said before. It is going to nab much of the market that sees the Mini as too small, but still want a fun to drive car. With the Mini pedigree, it will be better than other crossovers, but don’t expect it to be at any autocross events. Oh yeah, does anyone have a compressor map theu could email me of the current R56 turbos, or what they want to use in a “twin” four cyl setup?
Still no diesel either. I thought there were high hopes for this model bringing diesel to us, but that seems like it has yet again been pushed back.
I Can see it now
Mini Crossover Base Model with the most basic options only Auto Trans, and one package, + destination
33,000 nicely equipped 36,000
Mini Crossover S Model
37,000 nicely equipped 40,000
Are they serious – this thing will be a complete flop at these prices. It is priced 8,000 – 10,000 dollars to high.
Why on earth would anyone pay $40k for an S version when they could probably spend a few grand more and buy the bigger next generation X3?? That’s definitely what I would/will do. Providing of course the actual price comes in lower than the as mentioned figure.
I not so much taken aback by the looks, as I am the approximate asking price. Are they freakin’ crazy? It’s the same size as, or smaller than, the Rav4/CR-V/Element/Xb, and they’re going to charge Land Rover money for it. I think BMW has gotten too big for their britches with the pricing of their products, especially the MINIs. I know they’re premium small cars, but not that premium! C’mon…who’s running the show over there!?!?
Was hoping for a 4dr MINI that LOOKED like and had the character of a MINI. Oh well, looks like I’ll take a harder look at an A3 or GTI.
Mine was not a suitable comment to shill for MINI?
Off-topic?
Ask people whose MINIs lose power and lurch across intersections.
Arctic testing indeed.
laverdera, +1
Did I miss the memo about a prize for most comments per post? C4 has 7 out of 40. What do I get if I beat him? A gently washed convertible?
I like Fred’s comment the best regarding the Arctic testing. I recall statements about BMW doing cold weather testing for the R56 in Canada and yet they never discovered the cold start chatter BEFORE going into production!
The pricing for the R60 is crazy especially considering that the dollar is at an all time high versus the euro.
Clearly, the R60 has been designed for its intended market: The United States of America.
I would rather see Mini go out of business rather than destroy the entire historical precedence of what Mini stands for.
Come on global meltdown I am counting on you to put these managers and designer out of work at Mini so they can go to work for the not so big three making SUVs to their hearts extent
May all mighty Lavardera show clemency and bestow it upon you, JonPD.
YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!! This is the best new I have heard in the longest time!! I love the brand and have a passion for SUVs, so this is the best of both worlds.
To all the naysayers and SUV bashers (you know who you are), this is a revolutionary time for MINI, not the downfall. Oh, and the Toyota FJ Cruiser is NOT the genuine article. The original FJ is. Hmmm, seems kind of similar to the MINI vs. Mini scenario. And why all the direct comparisons to BMWs?? BMW owns MINI but so what?? If you want a BMW, buy one. Some of us happen to love MINIs and would like to be able to haul our kids and dogs and gear.
If MINI builds this right, and it seems as though they are on their way, I will buy one or two. If MINI reads these posts, please include SEATING FOR FIVE!! So far, everything else on my wish list is coming true. I can’t wait!
And another thing… if anyone here really wants a diminutive, high performance 2-seater, I would set my sights on the VW-Porsche revival of the 914. A mid-engine, rear wheel drive pocket-rocket, if built true to the original concept, would drive circles around anything else out there. In fact, one of these will look great in the garage next to my MINI SUV!
Once again, lavadera takes aim and completely misses the target!
<blockquote>I dunno what bugs me more, the Mini SUV or all the arm-chair product managers around here.</blockquote>
Current Mini owners are those where the brand identity worked. If every current Mini owner things a concept is a dog, then MINI learns that the new concept isn’t aligned with the past brand identity. While that may be what they want to do in changing the identity to a wider appeal, this is risky marketing calculus. The risks are reducing the number of repeat buyers (of which I’m guessing there are many) and loosing sales from the market segment that likes the old brand identity in exchange for accessing a (hopefully for them) larger new market that is yet to be proved. As many of the comments about the price point suggest, it’s going to be a harder sell due to the increased amount of good (but not identical) options that are out there at the proposed price points.
And all this is to increase production capacity by a third to 320k units a year, up from 240k. Now that the inventory is building on the dealer lots and the factory isn’t as tapped out as it used to be, there are lots and lots of risks in this strategy.
But then I forgot, you seem to be of the opinion that individual opinions are best left unsaid, because it’s an act of conceit to assume that anyone cares….
Personally, not that anyone does care, I think that if MINI had adopted the AWD strategy shown by Getrag what, 4 years ago, to the coupes and clubbies without this new cuter RAV4/FJ design, they would have gotten the growth that they were looking for without the brand identiy risk gamble that they are making….
Oh well, life will go on.
Matt
Can’t wait for the postmortem on this. After they’ve lost a ton of money, someone at BMW will be left scratching their head. “Maybe a big, all-WD MINI was a bad idea.”
Ya think?
Matt, well said. I can’t wait to see this thing piling up in MINI dealer lots and the frentic calls to Munich asking them what to do with all the unsold metal.
And remember…..
The BMW X6 hasn’t exactly set the world on fire either.
This arrogance sooner or later will catch up with them.
Very good statement Matt.
Its sad to say I think this will sell, then again people buy any SUV no matter how hideous it is here in the states.
All I can say is to warmly welcome Fiat to the states, it will be great to have a small car available again.
“Come on global meltdown I am counting on you to put these managers and designer out of work at Mini so they can go to work for the not so big three making SUVs to their hearts extent.”
Is this taking things a bit far? I mean, it’s a car being created for sale by the same people who made the car you love enough to post here. Keep that in mind before wishing for hardworking people to lose their jobs.
Some of the more interesting tid-bits in there…. No diesel.. So I wouldn’t hold ones breath for a fast diesel for the coupe/clubman. And small twin turbo? Seems that if this is real they’d rather use two little simple turbos than invest in a single larger variable geometry one. Twin turbo on a little four-banger? Well, if it’s sequential so that a little one for low revs big one for peak power would be OK. Two dinky ones in parrallel just seems a bit silly.
Matt
I’d drive one. It’d look good next to my 05′ MCSC JCW. I particularly LIKE the barn door slider on the back and the 3.5 doors to access the passenger seating. Buy your fiat(s), sell your mini and move on. It’s nice to have choices.
+10 for Matt.
I will speak with my wallet and not be parking one of the Crossovers in my garage.
You are absolutely correct, Matt. If they had gone into production of the Getrag AWD R53 I’d definitely have one in my garage. Maybe two of them. One to replace our Audi A4 Quattro.
I just hope that they fix the interior before I need to replace my 2006 MCS. Especially, reduce the size of the speedo, put the clock back up over the mirror, return to the R53 size inside rear view mirror (I really do not need to see my ear or the ‘C’ pillar on the passenger’s side), and bring back the two spoke multi-function steering wheel with the controls on the back.
Jusy my $0.02
I’m sure if we all look back into the archives a lot of the same things were being said about the Clubman when it was just a CONCEPT vehicle. All we have to look at now of the R60 is the CONCEPT car pictured at the start of this article. Everyone needs to remember that it is just that, A CONCEPT.
What no one seems to realize is that MINI as a brand would not last if all they offered was a 2dr hatchback. If you want to be able to replace your R50-53-56 down the road, brand growth is a must.
Unless I’m reading it wrong, the production version will loose the funky concept doors and go to a traditional 4 door layout. No slider. I hope the FJ roof goes away too, but this is looking less and less like one for my stable (not that this fact matters much)…..
Matt
Doug my comment was supposed to just be a , obliviously I don’t wish anything bad on anybody generally. I however think that anybody that is gung-ho on this project really needs a sharp wake up call.
A SUV is hands down the laziest design step BMW could have made for the brand. There is a ton of historical precedence that they could expand the brand with. I think the obvious choices would have been to use the Clubman for a 4×4, I would have bought off on that. I also believe there is room at the bottom. There are a lot of Mini drivers out there that would leap at a true performance Mini or a smaller Mini, a Mini pickup etc.
I don’t jest when I say however this development by BMW/Mini is nothing less than an assault of everything Sir Alec believed in. They might as well be planning to 4×4 over his grave as a equal sign of respect. I also believe Mini is tone deaf to what their community is saying, and broadly what the automotive media has been saying.
Can’t wait for it to come out to ask my Motoring adviser to get me a price quote on removing all my Mini badges from my GP so I can send them to Mini since my GP shares zip nadda nil with any SUV.
Dr Obnxs:
Two smaller turbochargers are more pressure:temperature efficient than one larger one. If the new body style makes it more difficult for whatever reason to mount an intercooler, more efficient turbo’s makes it possible to not require one at all.
Thanks to all for some great posts.
I’ll take a contrarian view: a Mini SUV per se does not at all dilute the historical Mini/MINI brand. The original reason for the brand’s creation was fuel efficiency; small size was a means to the end, not the end itself (in fact, the “Mini” name itself was applied later). “Efficient” does a better job of summarizing the essence of the vehicle, though that would make a lousy name for a car. Performance was also not an original goal, but was instead a by-product of an amazing design that carried four people in a compact frame (giving low moments of inertia and high rigidity) with light weight. It was all about doing more with less.
I bought my R53 for this same efficiency, at least compared to other 2005 cars (it is hugely bloated compared to the original Mini). But I couldn’t drive it to the ranches I work at or to campsites down National Forest logging roads without ripping out the undercarriage, so I also own a typical appliance-like SUV. I would love to see an SUV infused with Mini DNA: a light, compact, and fuel-efficient means to transport 4 people through sand, mud, snow, or over nasty unpaved roads while putting a smile on your face all the way there. Such a vehicle would be in a class by itself.
There’s no doubt that the R60 is alienating many existing Mini customers, which is not a good thing. I’m skeptical that the R60 will deliver what I’m looking for, and I’m sure that some of the vitriol directed towards the R60 represents unhappiness with the particulars of the concept itself. But I contend that a 200+ HP AWD MINI coupe — at twice the weight of the original Cooper S but little additional utility — would be more at odds with the 50-year history of the brand than would be a well-engineered SUV, even if the coupe would play well with much of the existing fan base.
Ok ok my friends this is what happens when a brand by itself in this case JCW is bought out by the majority in this case BMW, they have to come to some IDEOCENTRIC B.S. that some big wigs want as to say ‘I helped develope that vehicle”. We will see what transcribes why this “IGOR” of a car or SUV or whatever. STILL no word on the damn MINI DIESEL. lets blow up Cali for this and their stringent smog laws. OK the rest 2/3 of the world does not particular CARE if there is smog or not so why cant we pass a bil like before and just dont provide the DIESEL to California, oh but wait here the beourocrats will say that then people will smuggle the DIESEL into Cali world. Hello how many MINI’s will there be to hurt smog issues.
I’m not sure I agree. Lightweight AWD drivetrains weren’t really available when the original Mini was out, and for now there is a whole market of smaller AWD vehicles that compete in many areas that aren’t the 4×4 markets of years past. I would see AWD variants as evolving the vision to current technologies.
If MINI wanted to do something to garner a larger market by going to a 4 door platform, I think many would agree that the sizing of the softroader isn’t the best way to go about it. (Many would disagree too). Because of the central spine in the car, you don’t actually get any more seating, so it’s still a four seater! Really, to access the markets for a larger car like this one, they’d have to do a 3 seat rear to at least get the capacity to five.
SMART had a 4 door car, it sold so poorly that it’s being discontinued. My buddy from Germany thinks that it didn’t do well because people who want 4 door utility don’t want a car like the SMART. Who knows if Mini is going down this very same wrong path. The suggested price points make me think it may be likely though.
There are some inconsistancies in the MINI market strategy. If it’s truely about a value proposition, the price points are getting dangerously high. If it’s too be a “luxury small car” then dilution of the value proposition is sure to come. Several of the people I know who bought the Mini because of it’s performanc to cost ratio have moved on to other cars already.
But one things for sure, no matter how we “arm-chair quarterback” this one, we’ll know for sure soon enough….
Matt
And Axel, you’re wrong about the rest of the world. Look at the cut in dates for increased emissions standards on diesels, and Europe will be more and more CA like very shortly. The whole world will be. It’s wrong to blame CA for the issues about diesels. They just lead the curve in the concerns about particulates, but the rest of the world isn’t far behind. Even if we did relax CA laws, that would only open a window of a few years.
Also, in Europe, the diesel penetration was stimulated by high taxes on gasoline that aren’t levied on diesel. As the emissions standard world wide get more stringent, the cost of making diesel clean enough is rising… So much so that some European engineers are even talking that the days of diesel in Europe may be starting to come to the end. I don’t really know if that’s the case, but without tax policy changes here, diesels will only do OK, not great.
Matt
Obnxs Matt, I have no problem with people expressing their opinions. Its when they are oblivious that their desires are marginal that it becomes something I don’t have interest in reading.
The number of people for whom the Mini SUV “spoils” the brand, drives away, kills return customers, whatever other woes expressed here won’t make any difference in the fate of Mini or BMW. And the people claiming so seem completely unaware that their feelings will be in the minority.
Cool. how do you know this? Seems to me that you’re being guilty of what you accuse so many of: Certainty that the expressed opinion of the writer is fact.
Really, JCW coupes aren’t getting snapped up because of (what I think is) a rather poor price performance proposition and a bad economy. With the ever increasing price point of the softroader, it seems that there is a large trap that it will have the same thing happen, just moreso.
If you’re right, the brand will grow via the larger 4 door, and even though the purists bitch, it will be like Porsche milking the SUV cow and selling 911s. If you’re wrong then we’ll see lots with unsold inventory of 4 doors and other models, factories at less than capacity, a fall off in resale value, and eventual reorganization of the brand.
But with the economy being as crappy as it is now, it will be hard to see what’s based on tough times and what’s based on market strategy….
Matt
Lav never underestimate the power of individual owners to impact Mini sales. I have personally been responsible for more Mini sales than some of the MA I know. I doubt I am in the minority either. Mini has succeeded partially on the great deal of very happy reviews from their owners. I personally doubt I will have much positive to say about a brand that completely turns it back on a sizable historical precedence that it has trumped for years.
Look across any number of Mini boards and I would bet there is close to a 50/50 split in the Mini owners. Though I am more harsh than most I also don’t think I am alone for blasting Mini on this development.
No, I’m not projecting my opinion out at fact at all. I don’t like this vehicle any more than many of you. I just don’t have the hubris or delusion that my opinion represents some universal truth that will ultimately sink this new model.
My statement that such sentiments are a minority is not based on my opinion, just on the fact that MF readers are by no means a majority of owners or buyers, and that the MF reader’s interests have a narrow and distinct set of preferences.
So the JCW car is not a big hit, but this is just the kind of model aimed at a buyer with a profile like a MF reader. That makes sense to me. But these same readers dislike(d) the R56, almost universally poo-poo’d the Clubman, and they’ve been tremendously off base with their predictions of Mini’s demise due to these moves. Why would we expect the SUV to be any different. You can look at the Porsche experience too as you mentioned – its been brought up any number of times. The profit of their SUV has sustained greater development of their performance cars. In a slightly different economy that relationship could have kept them in business at all. So why all the hate and doomsday over a model you don’t like. Why all this worry about the “image” of the brand? If you are worried about that then why not go after the half of the Mini community that doesn’t see it as performance car but sees it as a “cute” car. They’re doing a whole lot more damage than any Mini SUV driving soccer mom will ever do.
But the point is that for me it just makes reading the comments a real drag. And it starts to drag down the whole MF experience for me. Get over it already.
Hey, if you can’t take the heat, then get out of the kitchen…
@<a href="#comment-251315" rel="nofollow">lavardera</a>: very well said. I’d recommend skipping the R60 posts. I generally do for the same reasons you stated. I’ve expressed my opinions and concern and have moved on. I’ll revisit the R60 when they debut the thing and then when we test it.
C4 – You should be on some sort of medication if you aren’t already – You have way too much time on your hands to complain about everything new & different that MINI does (there are several others out there that should get the same prescription) — Realize that MINI is purely expanding their share of the market – just like they did when the Clubman came in to being. With the Clubman, MINI picked up the buyers that just couldn’t quite make a Hardtop model work and the new Crossover will get a few more that . No manufacturer approves production on such a vehicle without extensive research and MINI is no different — The bottom line is that they would not move a model into production without a market for said vehicle.
The fact that the readers and posters on MF are a minority of owners or target market is true, but that still doesn’t answer how you know that the market will embrace the new vehicle.
Yes the Porsche example is one that I’m sure Mini hopes to emulate. But the 4 door Smart is a possible outcome too.
Looking at Edmunds.com, I found a bit over 290 different SUVs and Crossovers at less than $35k. (This is in the US) That is quite a different competitive sea than the one Mini is swimming in now.
We’ll see how the Mini brand fares as it exits the “kiddie pool” market it’s in and heads to the “deep end” of the marketplace. An Acura RDX sells for less than the Mini AWD price point, as does a Honda Pilot, Ford Escape Hybrid and lots and lots of other vehicles.
We’ve seen lots of evidence that the price escallation in Minis is starting to show (but in the early years when supply was so much less than demand this didn’t really matter) The price jump for the softroader is worrysome to me, independant of the style.
FWIW, I am part of the target market because my wife likes to have four wheel drive for the few snow days we do get where I live, and the trips to tahoe and the like. And while it’s only one person, I won’t buy one of these because of the value propositon that it represents.
I hope for Minis sake that I’m not representitive.
Matt
Hey Demon, too much caffeine today eh?
MF moderators should not tolerate the kind of personal attacks levied against other posters like Demon just did.
@<a href="#comment-251377" rel="nofollow">C4</a>: I think those comments were more tongue and cheek than anything. With the level of comments and the strong opinions I think reactions like that are probably to be expected. Nevertheless we’ve close comments on this post.