MF Exclusive: MINI Considering a Sedan?

To survive MINI needs more models. It’s clear that this is BMW’s philosophy. More models off of existing platforms allow for greater cost efficiency and help MINI target new customer segments. Last week we reported in detail about MINI’s overall strategic plans and talked about plans to bring up to six new models to production over the next 5-6 years. However there was one we didn’t talk about.
We know that MINI will be building a speedster off of the R56 platform in a couple of years and then shortly after that we’ll be getting the 3rd generation MINI. Yet MINI isn’t quite satisfied with that expansion plan. They need something that allows them to reach a broader segment specifically in countries like the US.
Enter the idea of a MINI sedan. Our sources are telling us that MINI is at the earliest stages of considering a full-fledged sedan (built off of the R60 platform). The car would include four doors and a hatchback that closer resembles notchback design. In fact we’re told that the idea of a real trunk has even been floated by some in Munich. The concept is still in the very earliest stages but there’s little question that a family oriented four door with a more traditional silhouette could be well received in the US market.
We’d give the concept nothing better than a 25% chance at this point but it’s a fascinating idea. Thoughts? Opinions? We know you have them.
73 Comments
<p>But at what point is the brand diluted? Is it diluted already?</p>
<p>If a sedan is a good idea, why stop there? Why not a pick-up truck, for example? How about a minivan, complete with sliding side doors? A camper? A snowmobile? ATV?</p>
<p>I hope that it doesn’t turn into a Smart Forfour. ;)</p>
<p>Now we know why they talk to Fiat, Peugeot, etc … they just want to ship in those other cars and stick a MINI badge on the front :(</p>
<p>I guess it’s all a matter of what “MINI” means. For early buyers, it offered amazing looks, handling and difference from other cars … all these are being reduced somewhat, but who knows at what point it becomes so reduced that buyers are put off.</p>
<p>I think now the biggest negative is the price; MINI is getting closer and closer to the “premium” brands, while remaining small and quirky. It’s supposed to be a “premium small car” but it’s not, if you compare it to “real” premium cars.
Eventually, the combination of price and non-uniqueness will make too many people go elsewhere.</p>
<p>On the other hand, one thing that really makes MINI special is the community; and the more that MINI tries to sell to ever wider sections of the market, the more likely they are to water down the community (we see it already in the silence of many of the forums)</p>
<p>I do wonder just how many cars BMW/MINI needs to produce for gaining profitability. I do honestly wonder just how much of its character the brand will give away by growing both the variety and size of the brand.</p>
<p>Oh well</p>
<p>At what point does a MINI not become a MINI anymore? If the brand is to survive, then why not just roll the MINI brand under the BMW umbrella? BMW could build smaller more effecient cars so that both brands become more cost effective. BMW could spin a slightly larger version of the MINI off if they were to share platforms. MINI could be branded as MINI by BMW.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a matter of a MINI no longer being a MINI, it’s becoming a matter of the Cooper being the important word in MINI Cooper.</p>
<p>A. Depends, as usual, on what it looks like. But the 1 Series does just fine as a hatch, a coupe, and a convertible. I don’t see why a MINI coupe/sedan – are they still called notchbacks? – couldn’t be cool as well.</p>
<p>B. Horrible. (God I crack myself up.)</p>
<p>Those Rileys and Wollseleys were ugly when they came out, and still are, and didn’t sell well at all.</p>
<p>This should not happen unless it looks a lot better than the pervious Mini offering.</p>
<p>BMW has done well with their own line of cars, there were and are some models that may raise a few eyebrows, but all in all their line of products is solid. I see no reason to think they won’t be successful with the MINI. Some purists might not like the direction and may hate some of the models, but really, that old BMG branded Mini is over.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that driving my R53 in the future is going to be like driving an original Beetle among Jettas and Passats.</p>
<blockquote>But at what point is the brand diluted? Is it diluted already?
If a sedan is a good idea, why stop there? Why not a pick-up truck, for example? How about a minivan, complete with sliding side doors? A camper? A snowmobile? ATV?
</blockquote>
<p>Why not? Why not have a small car based truck. I don’t need a fully boxed frame and 12mpg just to get mulch for my garden. Why not actually have a MINIvan? there hasn’t been a small minivan since 84 when chrysler introduced the original…current offerings are huge! Why do I need a SUV or even a 3er wagon when all I want to do is have space for two kids and a dog kennel?!</p>
<p>Why is it so hard to understand that the MINI brand is about smaller smarter and sporty versions of the types of cars on the road today. I believe Gert Hildebrand said so much himself. Why isn’t that MINI?</p>
<p>Honestly, if MINI did a sedan it certainly would kindle more of the spirit of the 2002 than the 1series. A small tight handling sedan is a niche with NO offering in it today. I would certainly welcome a MINI sedan that was close to the proportions of the E30!</p>
<p>Using the existing platform to create model variations is a good idea, overall. They are taking their existing investment and making the most of it. Look at the Volvo S40/V50/C70/C30 – it’s the same car from the front seats forward, but the public sees it as 4 distinctly different cars.</p>
<p>I like the idea of a 4 door sedan much more than the MINI SUV – look at how many people are buying small 4-door sedans…</p>
<p>anything to help mini recoupe money is a good thing. what is that so hard to understand?</p>
<p>i think dr hit it on the head “MINI brand is about smaller smarter and sporty versions of the types of cars on the road today”</p>
<p>if you look at it in the light that the brand is actually scaling down what is in the market instead of increasing what is in their current offerings it doesn’t taste nearly as bad…</p>
<p>Yes yes yes bring back the Riley Elf</p>
<blockquote>Honestly, if MINI did a sedan it certainly would kindle more of the spirit of the 2002 than the 1series. A small tight handling sedan is a niche with NO offering in it today. I would certainly welcome a MINI sedan that was close to the proportions of the E30!</blockquote>
<p>Also, if the sedan is based on the R60 platform, I would assume it can be made into any combination of front/rear/all-wheel drive. This opens up some interesting possibilities.</p>
<p>For the people saying that all these new cars are diluting the brand, you need to go do some research on the Mini.</p>
<p>A pickup, a sedan, a light off road vehicle, a van, were all original variants of the classic Mini.</p>
<p>The brand isn’t diluted. BMW is talking about reviving vehicles that were manufactured prior to BMW’s take over.
For those of you that don’t know Mini’s history, just do a little research online and you will be surprised what Morris / Austin Motors has built.</p>
<p>I’m glad I have an R53</p>
<p>Lol yes Not-so lets watch BMW follow the same path as BMC. Lets look over the history of BMC some shall we. The Moke, pick-up, van, elf were all phased out quickly due to no existent sales. The coupe was the only car they produced that really had a lifespan. The issue I see with the continuing broadening of the brand is that the clear message about what a MINI is will become more watered down, not unlike the ultimate driving machine has with the ever increasing X series of BMW’s. While its true that the X series have saved BMW at the end of the day BMW isn’t anything like it was these days imo.</p>
<p>i don’t see my local dealership having enough room for this many different models.</p>
<p>The MINI fanbois and apologists crack me up. The arrogance, greed and misguided vision of Munich has taken over the spirit of one of their most successful product lines in corporate history. Ian C. is absolutely correct in his assessment. The brand is quickly being diluted and soon we will see re-badged French Peugeots, Fiats and who knows what else as “MINIs”.</p>
<p>The apologists can stick it out all they want in behalf of BMW until they turn blue on the face. But the facts and realities here before us are very clear. The current BMW board of directors clear message is this: MINI BE DAMNED!</p>
<p>Now that they have milked the heritage of the old Issigonis Mini, they have reasoned is time to throw away that book and move on. MINI is now just a name without connection or passion for anything. Just another gold mine to fill up the coffers of the ultra rich Quandt family and their shareholders.</p>
<p>Greed and more greed!</p>
<p>Oh and that photo of the Wolseley looks like Hitler and Eva Braun are talking to each other on the sidewalk…</p>
<p>I personally don’t see any reason to make a traditional 4-door sedan with a trunk, or even a traditional 2-door coupe w/o a hatch. They’re an archaic and inefficient design. Actually the original Mini didn’t have a hatch. I had one and the only thing that fit in that trunk was the 10-inch spare tire and maybe a tool box or a gym bag.</p>
<p>A Mini pickup was popular as was the trunked Wolsley and Riley versions, so why not. There were even Campervans and other oddities made by independents that were based on Mini subframes and running gear, so why not?</p>
<p>I’d really like to see the Marcos re born as a BMW product using MINI underpinnings, lots of lightweight panels with the ‘S’ bits powering the whole ensemble</p>
<p>make it look like a 4 door Trabant and you have a sale! ;)</p>
<p>the Coupe is getting a bit stale already, so its time to switch things up a bit for sure.</p>
<p>I think what matters more than how many variants / vehicle types are marketed under the MINI brand is that each of these vehicles be “special” and greatly differentiated for all other market offerings – the lofty target BMW should aim for is, ironically, Frank Stephenson’s R50/53 design. This means BMW needs to: (1) make cost-cutting exercises less obvious to the customer both in interior and exterior styling; (2) inject a level of dynamism that is long associated with MINI/mini to all models (i.e., the classic mini pickup truck variant wasn’t just small for a pickup, it had incredible turn-on-a-dime handling); (3) while these cars are premium small cars, offer value-for-money rather than ever-escalating asking prices. Do that and there will be very few people questioning why a pickup truck or a small sedan or even a compact SUV is in the MINI range. Conversely, vehicles that could just easily have been marketed as BMWs (and are priced as such), with only a pastiche of MINI design cues to “back up” the MINI badge, will ultimately render the MINI brand a caricature of itself.</p>
<p>I like dr’s take on this, but I really wonder if so many variants are supportable. If there is a business case for this type of expansion, so be it. It just doesn’t seem possible. I would think that for any variant to be successful, there would need to be a demand for it in the US. Perhaps that view is too myopic. Perhaps consumption in non-US markets will make these viable. But, on topic, I think a sedan variant would be attractive if it was offered with the hatchback/notchback. If my SAAB 900S had been more reliable, I would still be driving that car.</p>
<blockquote>I personally don’t see any reason to make a traditional 4-door sedan with a trunk, or even a traditional 2-door coupe w/o a hatch. They’re an archaic and inefficient design.</blockquote>
<p>Riiiight because you sooo often fill your hatch space up to the roof? Stacking things so that you cant see out your back windows? Think about it, about 90% of the time we only haul a fraction of the capacity of the hatch, we tend not to stack any more depth in a hatch than you would find in a trunk. a hatch is more versatile but archaic and inefficient? one COULD argue that having a bunch of space you never use in a hatch is inefficient</p>
<p>I for one would like to know when all this concern about MINI being large enough to support itself will start happening at Rolls Royce. Who knows maybe we will see them produce a pick up soon to gain more viability.</p>
<p>For me the ever increasing numbers of variants are likely to still draw widely the same people that would have already bought a car from the brand. With more direct competition coming to the US I think that BMW/MINI is just desperately trying to spread their coverage to try to save some percentage of their sales in what is their main market.</p>
<p>Desperation seems to have taken hold at MINI</p>
<blockquote>Oh and that photo of the Wolseley looks like Hitler and Eva Braun are talking to each other on the sidewalk…
</blockquote>
<p>Wow! I’ve been waiting for this to happen! C4 has violated <a>Godwin’s law!</a> Silly me. I thought he was just a door man.</p>
<p>The main priority with MINI is that BMW do not see MINI as a conventional brand. MINI has to offer more than the mainstream and MINI cannot be market specific,
this is important as a MINI has to be unconevntional and appeal to all markets where MINI is active.</p>
<p>Hence why we look at ideas regarding MINI but we know where we want to take the MINI brand further and identify concepts that will appeal to MINI enthusiasts across the world.</p>
<p>First off our MINI Cross-Over vehicle is an unconventional Sport Activity Vehicle it is smaller , pleasantly designed using the MINI design philosophy of compactness with added solidity to the MINI design , with cars seen testing are hiding some interesting features such as chunkier wheel arches that are actually reminicient of the Crossover Concept. After we have launched our Crossover and allow it’s probation we will introduce a car considered to be the Porsche Cayenne Turbo of the MINI Crossover a stand alone performance version , again seperate from JCW , small chunky with a distinctive aerokit it will be an enthusiasts MINI crossover that will have key features to identify such as more power , specially designed x-design wheels and unique interior fixtures. It will be a small pocket rocket SAV and again will allow MINI to offer an expansive product in which profy can be made.</p>
<p>Having looked at the prospects of a Sedan and Pick-Up truck MINI based on the BMW Boards decision not to make MINI market specific whereas a Pick-Up would work in the USA in would not be perceived in other key MINI markets like Germany and the UK. A sedan has also suffered in this approach although the discussion is if a sedan was to come from the MINI architecture it might inherit another brand under the BMW umbrella but not MINI.</p>
<p>In the desire for MINI to be seen as an unconventional brand MINI have pushed ahead with their current platform by producing two uniquely styled cars that will really set the MINI brand on fire namely the Speedster and Coupe , Two cars that deeply breathe the intentions of the MINI brand as it expands it’s portfolio. The key to the two spin-off models is how it drives and the engineers who are currently testing semi-disguised cabrios which can be indentified by the lack of back seats when you look in the rear quarter will be making sure that the looks of these two models will not be the only thing to stop MINI fans on the street.</p>
<p>MINI do not want to offer similar concepts such as sedan or hatch to appeal to growing families so in a way similar to the BMW 5er Gran Turismo MINI will offer it’s variant of a Progressive Activity MINI aka SPACEBOX – a semi-hatch come wagon with five doors , rear barn doors like the Clubman but with one side larger than the other for bulkier and easier loading
It will be a five door MINI but offer unique features such as a shallow glasshouse , sloping floating roof and features such as hidden rear door handles and a wrap around spacial feeling combined with a fully glassed panoramic glass roof as an option. MINI SPACEBOX is seen as unconventional family transport away from the conventional choices faced with growing families.</p>
<p>After BMW introduce their interpretation of a small mega city vehicle , MINI have plans that were developed side by side with the MCV. A car known as MIN-i. The i is identify the cars as products of BMW’s sustainable strategy “Project-i” Much smaller than today’s MINI the MIN-i will take it’s appearence from the original Mini meaning small, compact and being an MCV for two and opening the MINI brand. Whether or not depends on how the BMW interpretation is received , The BMW MCV will be clinical and minimalist and there is an outwith supplier who are working with BMW on an interface for the new car designated as the isetta of the 21st century. Which gives you the clue how in the current climate BMW have sought to use the Isetta in areas of brand promotion – it’s all marketing we are preparing the world.</p>
<p>Thanks for that info scott26 – that is reassuring. Greatly looking forward to the performance-oriented ‘Broadspeed’ coupe in particular and glad to hear that ‘project i’ is being seriously developed by BMW. The first and second generation smartcars have been very well received over here in Canada and indicate lots of Canucks are looking for quirky, stylish and fuel-miserly vehicle engineering.</p>
<p>The thought alone turns my stomach. Unfortunately that’s the most popular body style here.</p>
<p>Scott I think MINI execs and designers need to lay off the drink there. WOW a micro SUV, we have never seen one of those before. Oh wait, we have seen them time after time for more than a few years. The R60 may have cool MINI styling but at the end of the day there are comparable cars out there today. The CR-V comes close on dimensions and will still soundly kick MINI’s behind in the small SUV market. Also with much of the recent news more minco SUV’s are rapidly coming to market. As for a Porsche Cayenne competitor coming from MINI all I can do is laugh. From the same company that has recently produced a nearly 6k lbs and 90k X6 M that is a solid performer though I still wait for BMW to choose it to represent the company during the next 24hr race lol.</p>
<p>Now about the Spacebox maybe they should just call it the MINI AARP ;)</p>
<p>Scott,</p>
<p>Thanks as always for your input. Sounds to me that while this concept was considered, it is not for MINI; much like this initial MCV. In discussions with others in the know, there were many discussions that the MCV would be branded a MINI but the MINI execs wanted nothing to do with it and hence the new sub-brand being launched. MINI will always be MINI and while it is a great success it still does not move the volume BMW would like- economies of scale in production.</p>
<p>The next gen 1er is also rumored for a sedan style… I think it would be interesting but would still prefer a hatch here in the US.</p>
<p>I think a MINI with a trunk would be extremely cool (and pretty popular) if it patterned itself after the BMW 2002 in terms of style and performance. Of course that means two doors, not really a family car, dispense with half-hearted “notchbacks”, and just go for it.</p>
<p>In no way did I mention that the MINI will be a direct competitor for the Cayenne. The Concept will be similar in the method of a range topping variant performance model. And it is how they will differ this model from the standard crossover and the JCW model , which means different engines? , more sporting intended suspension , upgraded brakes etc?</p>
<p>It is purely intended to be inserted into the product range for more choice to the customer if the conventional crossover models are not appealing to certain individuals.</p>
<p>Spacebox is to take MINI away from conventional choices open to customers. In Europe for example small MPV’s and Estate cars are very popular amongst families and people who need a lot of flexibility.
SPACEBOX is like a hybrid of a small MPV , estate and five door hatchback with the added individuality of a car as unique as the MINI Clubman. SPACEBOX can enter other markets by offering a small family car without resorting to concepts that rarely perform well in certain markets but have the unique character of being a MINI in style , driveability and image.</p>
<p>Bring on the Spacebox I say … a lot of us young’uns that came to MINI as early adopters back in 02 are now starting families and need something a bit bigger with more space but want to stay withing the MINI family fun.
Currently drive a Clubman, but its packed and rendered useless super-fast with just a baby carriage in the rear and a few grocery bags upfront.</p>
<p>And this form over function 4 seat config of the Crossman sounds disappointing as well.</p>
<p>Scott just have to say that MINI is light years away from understanding whats its performance owners are looking for if the top performance model of the brand turns out to be a micro SUV heh. The Cayenne is a quite capable car as is the X6 M however just how many sport utes are out during track days and other performance driving events.</p>
<p>I could be wrong about the general wishes of others in the community but rarely do I hear people raving about the newest sport ute as a dream car.</p>
<p>Day by day I become more disillusioned by the leadership of Mini and the choices that its taking to redefine the brand as something predictable and common. The Coupe was a masterstroke in the market for being something completely new and different. I give BMW/Mini credit for the GT styling as being something unique (however much it screams social security). The Broadstar and the R60 are both as unique as the color of white. Two seat coupes and minco SUVs have been done for a great many years.</p>
<p>Heh make that the Broadspeed ;)</p>
<p>I hope there is less than a 25% chance of it seeing the light of day.</p>
<p>“A small pocket rocket SUV”, “An enthusiasts MINI crossover” – I’ve heard it all now.</p>
<p>I mean no disrespect to anyone, but as an enthusiast who loves nothing more than doing track days and driving a twisty mountain road hard … I’ve never imagined myself doing it in an SUV.</p>
<p>I want to see a smaller, lighter MINI hatch that places the focus on back on driving and throws practicality out the window, the speedster and coupe are a good start, but I want a GP :-)</p>
<p>To carry, roughly, four adults and still have a usable trunk, it would have to be the size of a Suzuki SX4 (Liana) sedan or the new 2011 Ford Fiesta. Both of those cars are definitely smallish, but not really MINI Coupe-sized. So, is there really a demand for a $19-25k SX4 or Fiesta that’s styled like a MINI? That market of car usually commands the $12-16k price range. I get what MINI’s trying to do with the R60 SUV, it will actually be attracting customers from larger SUVs into a smaller platform with the same amenities. It makes some sense, but this sedan idea really stinks.</p>
<p>The new Fiesta has Microsoft’s Sync and is supposed to be offered with optional leather and sport suspension. Like it or not, the Suzuki has received rave reviews from the automotive press and can be had with Navigation and Bluetooth, completely loaded for $1000 less than a base Cooper with no options. So what are we to think, MINI is going for the sporty angle? I have only two things to say, Cobalt SS and Mazdaspeed 3. Both are $23k, seat four full adults and will absolutely kill a MINI.</p>
<p>So, basically, the new sedan won’t be MINI coupe-sized. It will have a price, conservatively, $7000-10,000 more than it’s actual market competition. Based on the current MINI line, it certainly won’t be able to compare to some of the performance-based cars out there, but it will be, what ….cute? From a business standpoint, I really don’t get what they’re trying to do.</p>
<p>Call me confused by this one.</p>
<p>I would prefer MINI to make their own line of variants, rather than join up with FIAT or Peugeot in order to get economies of scale.</p>
<p>Once companies start sharing floorpans, etc., you end up with the situation where a SAAB is no more than a Vauxhall, and a Volvo is really a Ford underneath.</p>
<p>MINI can only be desirable if it’s unique. If you look at a MINI variant that’s essentially the same as a new Peugeot bar bodystyling, people are going to start looking at the cost instead, and we all know who’ll win in that situation.</p>
<p>It’s already happening where reviewers are raving about a VW, but then say “get the SEAT, because it’s the same car but 3K cheaper”.</p>
<p>As long as they continue to build the coupe, does it really matter what else they build?</p>
<p>@ ian f – herehere!</p>
<p>Good question Ian, guess for me as a performance car enthusiast after hearing Scott say the top end performance car of the brand is going to be a 4 door Micro SUV it does affect me. However all of this does even affect the coupe somewhat. The more models within the brand and the more cars produced likely we will continue to see small degrades in the quality of the materials (for cost) and quality of the product (due to pushing more models). My greatest hope there is still that BMW has had somewhat good results of keeping build quality pretty decent while growing their brand.</p>
<p>Oh well</p>
<p>so Herr Scott26, what is the launch time frame for this Spacebox concept? That would be something of interest to me. If the Spacebox is well executed, then that would be enough reason for me to stop looking at the BMW 3 series station wagons. I don’t not like SUVs or crossovers with truck like ride heights. I like the good old fashioned station wagon that I grew up with. If the Spacebox addresses the deficiencies of the present day Clubman, then I’ll sign up for one. See I put my money where my mouth is… So please don’t turn this one into another nuclear waste site.</p>
<p>@ johnpd – i don’t think scott said the uberSAV will be the top of the brand, but the top of the SAV branch. i believe he even referenced the current hatch, the coupe, and the roadster as being the “performance arm”…</p>
<blockquote>The R60 may have cool MINI styling but at the end of the day there are comparable cars out there today. The CR-V comes close on dimensions and will still soundly kick MINI’s behind in the small SUV market</blockquote>
<p>so what are you defining as success? how does mini get its but kicked? sales numbers? c’mon man MINI didn’t invent the 2dr hatch…They redefined it! there are plenty of MINI competitors that sell more cars, priced lower…etc….but one drive exposes the reason why most would rather have a MINI. I am quite confident that when you drive an R60 it isn’t going to feel like an appliance.</p>
<p>I don’t see what the problem is…Mini made the Riley Elf for over a decade. It’s not un-Mini to have a sedan…hell there was even the Austin America back inthe day which was a 2-door sedan also. I’m happy to see Mini diversify and grow as big as it was in the past with even better quality/engineered products (Sorry Sir Alex)</p>
<p>First dr have to say that Mini did create its niche with a premium quality small hatchback. There wasn’t anything really close to it when the R50 was developed.</p>
<p>I would bet the farm that a large number of small suv tests will include the CR-V and Rav4 right along with the R60. Mini will be competing against manufactures that have had time to develop solid products. I am also betting that a large number of families will look at the four seats and still say its to small.</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that the R60 will be a decent driver but still with the gain in size and weight I can assure you that it won’t feel anything like the Coupe going around corners. Already the stock Clubman/S going around corners you can feel the extra mass of the car tugging away at the car compared to the Coupe.</p>
<p>JonPD, Of course the R60 wont feel like a coupe! Its apples to oranges and the R60 isn’t meant for that market or comparison. Of course the R60 will compete with the CRV and RAV4…that’s the point! But do you doubt that MINI will introduce a SAV that will redefine expectations for the market? I personally have no doubt that the R60 will look better and drive better than either of those appliances….behind the wheel…the look and feel….there will be no comparison! Yeah the R60 will cost more and sell fewer but it will be the cream of the crop, I will be the sav people wish they could buy…. I have no doubt. Sorry y’all back to the sedan talk now.</p>
<p>MINI is more than just a brand , MINI envelopes Culture , Music , Film and Fashion as a integral part to it’s urban lifestyle city car status.
Moving in new directions for the brand is enevitable to justify it’s appeal to more consumers , people that want new lifestyle choices in our cars today and more personal cars whether they be pure sports cars or regular run abouts.</p>
<p>When travelling in a car allbeit a back seat passenger you get to understand the purpose of the car , sitting back either in day or light there is cars of different size , different shape , cars that are equally sporty to cars that are regular shapes but they all have a purpose whether it is a hatchback , a coupe , a roadster , a supercar or a sedan.</p>
<p>When introduced in 2001 MINI was at the beginning identified as just a car , until the culture kicked off and surpassed the original claim that the MINI will be a passing fashion just as the VW beetle was before it.
Now we have come further and still no chance of the MINI fad being far from over.
At first MINI was labelled a small premium hatchback but has since matured into a lifestyle of it’s own it represents culture and a lifestyle that no matter how much other manufacturers say they will develop a MINI killer that they just do not understand the appeal of MINI.
For MINI customers some enjoy the image , more enjoy the feel of driving a MINI , and some reckon the MINI is just automotive Nirvana.</p>
<p>MINI has come a lot further since it’s introduction in 2001 and when you see a MINI today in a passing car you can see the MINI in 3 different formats – The MINI hatch , Cabrio and the Clubman.
This triplicate of MINI’s each having a different purpose like any other car.
How do you progress a brand like MINI ? , How can you keep MINI Exciting? Successfully labelled as the “Other” MINI The MINI Clubman offered an individual first progression of a new concept for MINI , a successful integration of the MINI clubman as a unique Individual choice which not only appealed to current MINI owners but brought some new clientle to the MINI brand.
MINI Clubman was born from the idea of usibility in a MINI but make it more unique and appealing to a MINI customer with that fun factor to progress the fact that underneath the uniqueness and individuality there is a MINI underneath and that means no lack of typical MINI driving characteristics.
Leaving the MINI SAV aside at the moment , The MINI crossover is possibly the right product at the right time especially against high fuel consumption SUV’s. The MINI CrossOver is like the MINI and the MINI Clubman still a MINI so the SAV will remain nimble , and responsive as a MINI should be but with a commanding driving position.</p>
<p>What more can be done to Progress the typical MINI character ?
Make it lower , Make it dynamically more raked , tweak the design to suit it’s most sporting incarnation yet but overall make it so appealing that MINI enthusiasts will want one while aspiring MINI customers will adhere to have one.</p>
<p>The idea of a MINI Speedster was initially discussed in the early stages of the first under BMW developed MINI . Back then we had the idea to experiment and see what is interesting as design concepts to show off that MINI will not be a passing fashion and that we wanted to bring a fun factor to small cars which was lacking in that period.
The press after they saw our ideas were very enthusiastic regarding a MINI Speedster , unfortunately the birth of MINI to the market place took considerable time to establish it self which is a rule at BMW that the first product must establish itself before we begin production development of additional variants. By the time the establishment period had indentified the car was a huge success , already attention was switching to the next generation MINI leaving marketing to concentrate on only the MINI Cabrio and the MINI GP.</p>
<p>Now that the current MINI family is about to complete with an additional MINI SAV model. MINI turned to the creative side to discuss how to keep the brand ticking over until the next generation MINI arrives in a few years. The rule of marketing is that we look at each car intensively and see if current platforms can be used for ideas that are coming through the design studios. At MINI design there has always been the creativity to work on ideas that would suit the MINI brand , The Clubman was like the Speedster intended for the first MINI , a Speedster for the second MINI was not originally intended as BMW reckoned the Cabrio would be self sufficient.
The MINI Cabrio does have appeal and the greater percentage of MINI cabrio owners worldwide are Female , so how do you appeal to the Male demographic? The good thing is that the MINI is seen as a car that is universal with models that appeal to both male and Female customers.
But more and often there comes a car that can lure your customers away from your brand and it is how to retain the customer who wants something more personal and interesting from a typical sports car concept.
The MINI Speedster is purely intent to offer customers the opportunity to see how far MINI can go in it’s Individuality , not everyone wants a Clubman as is not everyone wants to see the brand offer an SAV.
MINI Speedster is a car that will offer the characteristics that are evident with the MINI brand whilst keeping the Image and the Lifestyle intact.
Identified as “MINI Amplified to 11” shows that the engineering department are working well within the chosen brief to make it so exciting that MINI customers have never experienced anything like this before in a typical MINI. MINI Speedster is conceived from the current MINI Cabrio (R57) platform with a wider track for a compact , squat look with equally massaged wheel arches with the typical MINI cladding highly evident.
The headlights follow a more raked into the corners look surrounding a wide MINI grille , The S model will feature the hood mounted air intake bit will be positioned as if it is a bulge on the bonnet with two lines disappearing before the windscreen meets the bonnet. The screen is more raked back than a typical MINI with the cockpit being retained from the current MINI but will feature new colour and trim pieces for a unique Individual appearence. The MINI speedster is strictly for two with the loss of the rear passenger compartment being covered by twin buttress canopy that secures the easily fixed hood. Roll bars are positioned at the front of these buttresses, the rear deck is short and stubby with the MINI tail lamps , the exhaust like the MINI Cooper S is centrally mounted but the rear intake is larger as is the front intake.</p>
<p>In making the MINI Speedster such a unique choice that will offer a lot of appeal. The color and trim department have been devising unique colour choices that signify the vibrant amplification , such as a new unique shade of Orange that in high sunlight turns bright gold , a Unique shade of Gold that again in sunlight reveals a rust type of effect, A new Blue which is very grey in tone like the effect you see on the top of a Great white shark. As is a new metallic green like the original Light Green but more vibrant.</p>
<p>MINI Speedster is seen as having something Post recession that will offer something that today only exists in enthusiast manufacturers and not in mainstream segments.</p>
<p>Originally born as a Speedster but with designers adding a roof to the model to develop a unique twin brother a sporting coupe that will offer more structural areas which will provide an even more sporting model with the Coupe. Known internally as the “BroadSpeed” and incarnation taken from the MINI history books , although not properly and officially licensed by BMW. The challenges of going from the Speedster to the Coupe have met with many design challenges , 1 example is the shape of the rear window , with many models depicting a typical MINI like rear squared off that wraps around the c pillar ? , A Ford Fiesta type rising Window line ? One idea definetly nixed is a BMW typical window line , The finished model takes the idea off the Broadspeed but shrinks it allowing a sloping roof and a rounder quarter light with a shallow glasshouse.
Like the Speedster the Coupe will remain a two seater.</p>
<p>The idea of a Coupe was introduced after investigation that there was a period that there were small cars like this especially from Japanese manufacturers such as the Honda Civic CRX either in both it’s original Coupe incarnation or the later sliding hardtop model , or the Toyota MR2 , One model which was around at the time of the 2001 MINI was Fords Puma a small front wheel drive coupe which based on an existing Ford The Fiesta offered an excellent handling small coupe. It is true that no one really offers anything like this today but they are coming both Honda and Toyota have something under development.</p>
<p>Again it falls under of focusing on the compact and city segments to further your growth , a direction that both BMW and MINI have invested highly in for the future. It is this area where customers will be advancing to new vehicle concepts that are either making a return to the market or indeed as BMW know well enough creating new niche’s.</p>
<p>With the promise of excellent driving dynamics , a unique image and adequate performance for such a car , engines are at first limited to the Twin scroll Turbo as found in the MINI Cooper S and a JCW model initially , Other engines will be added but not at first , Although engineering and design are done inhouse at BMW , chassis will be made at Oxford whereas Body shells and final marriage will take place within a 3rd manufacturing site (not Magna Steyer)</p>
<p>Will the cars be univerally received by the MINI Community , I would like to say yes because I am sure there are customers who will be enticed by such a concept for MINI , not only current customers but customers who could be new to the MINI brand is always at the front of our minds.
It’s a car that could do well with further integration of the image of MINI to customers who might want something exciting enough that they never previously considered the MINI brand. Especially older customers who might be partial to the Speedster as an interpretation of those classic British Sports cars driving along say- Highway one in California , either during the day or at sunset with the roof open and the occupants exposed to the elements. A car that can conjure up some past emotions for some another for just listening to your favourite music as you negotiate all those curves whilst retaining that permanent grin.</p>
<p>It’s believing in your product that makes you get excited at the prospect of a new concept it’s a MINI although turned up to 11, which is not an issue.
I dont think there is anything that can suit the brand better as the top MINI model of the brand portfolio that signifies what the brand has been about all along .</p>
<p>LOL @ JonPD claiming to have more knowledge on the desires of MINI customers than BMW/MINI themselves. That’s just funny.</p>
<p>I find all these new models incredibly exciting. MINI is a fantastic brand that will successfully translate sideways into other models. Just as a BMW M3 is no less of a car because of the X6 or 7 series, so too the JCW Cooper/Speedster/whatever will be no less of a car because of a MINI cross-over or funky 4 door sedan.</p>
<p>Things change people. Just look at the R53 which is light years apart from the original MINI.</p>
<p>The MINI brand is in expert hands. Thank God it’s not left up to the MINI internet community to steer the brand’s direction…all 12 of us would be driving around in a light-weight Cooper S with rock hard JCW suspension and the company would be bankrupt.</p>
<p>Still don’t see any place within the brand for a SUV or a sedan myself but oh well. Just have to say that I think “go-kart handling” is going the same path as “the ultimate driving machine” not much more than buzz words used to reference what the brand used to stand for.</p>
<p>One thing Scott, is bringing a few more people into the brand worth driving this wedge MINI has been working on into the middle of its community. Even an outsider can see how big of a split MINI has caused in its user group. This is the same group that is largely responsible for MINI’s outstanding success. More cars have been sold by owners chatting people about their cars than any advertising scheme. All of which BMW/MINI appears to be totally happy to see happen for the sake of a few more sales.</p>
<p>There is also the fact that the sales in Europe have been hit by the large number of great small cars there. For me personally the MiTo, Abarth, and RS all would find a home with me long before most everything MINI has turned out lately personally for me.</p>
<p>Actually Dylan I speak for nobody but myself, then again unless you live in a hole the commentary from the community and from outside the community all over the web shows more than just myself having issues with choices made by MINI.</p>
<p>Won’t even get into the changing face of the M division, turning out its near non-stop high power soccer mom wagons. lol</p>
<p>@JonPD. Have you ever considered that perhaps MINI/BMW actually know what they’re doing? Like um, maybe they’re talking to customers, maybe they’ve got years and years of experience in the automotive industry, etc.</p>
<p>You have such a strong, and frankly tedious and negative opinion on a car that you’ve never driven. Why don’t you just move on and give the rest of us a break. The world wont end, the sky isn’t falling etc. If it’s purity you want…go buy a Ferrari and give all your money to a company that shares your values on high production costs and limited production runs. Either that or get a new hobby etc you might be a lot happier…</p>
<p>We understand what MINI is and is more than just a brand therefore our product portfolio has to gain the attention of people that want more than conventional small cars. And we communicate that message with MINI.</p>
<p>The answer to your question regarding MiTo , abarth is that they are not a MINI. The MiTo is not a drivers car for a brand that portrays strong italian sports car heritage.</p>
<p>Besides having one in your mirror is like being stalked when you see that front and those eyes.</p>
<p>First, it was a FEVER in the community…now a WEDGE has been driven through the middle of that community. I’ll give you points for drama. Bring on the new models, MINI, this won’t make me love the Cooper any less…but we would all love them even more if they came in a non-metallic BRG…I think that color would suit the sedan well, too (trying desperately to bring the thread back on topic).</p>
<p>Does anyone know where and if there is a count out there of the number of MINIs registered in each State?
Just curious as in NYC area there seem to be everywhere now.</p>
<p>At a friend’s party this weekend one of the guests asked about my Mini – could she fit her family of four to travel for a vacation, how about a clubman? I told her to watch for a new model called Countryman. She said:</p>
<p>a: wha? that will dilute the brand, no way!
b: nah, that will get its ass kicked by the RAV4…
c: but if some of the mini community hate me for it, is that a community?
d: oh! Great – thanks! (smiles)</p>
p>@Scott26</p
<p>Thanks for taking the time to contribute your insight to MotoringFile. I always have an eye out for your comments, and they consistently deliver. I am watching the Broadspeed discussion with intense interest as I’m due for a mid-life crisis and that should fit the bill nicely!</p>
<p>@<a href="#comment-265723" rel="nofollow">JonPD</a>:
Lets look over the history of BMC some shall we. The Moke, pick-up, van, elf were all phased out quickly due to no existent sales. The coupe was the only car they produced that really had a lifespan.
I like how you aren’t very good at math because if you would even check the “quick” phase out of the pickup took them over 21 years of production and over 59,000 of them were made.</p>
<p>Gas when I was talking about being phased out quickly I was speaking from a manufacturing standpoint which is normally considered on the basis of numbers produced of a product. Compare the total sales volumes between all the variants compared to the Coupe and you will see they are just a drop in the total production of the classic Mini. Don’t get me wrong pretty much love all the classics, just wondering how much market their is for a car that is trying to fill a niche that already has competition. A four door hatchback has a lot of competition, this does not mean Mini would go down in flames with it or the R60 rather I think it has a huge amount of tough competition.</p>
<p>Scott26 – I do love you sharing this additional information on the Broadspeed. Sounds like it will be a fantastic MINI and the ultimate little sporting car, FWD and all, a proper successor compared to the GP or my beloved R53 JCW Competition Edition (much more so than the R56 factory JCW). Even being FWD, depending on how it drives it may prove an interesting competitor to the miata for some buyers…</p>
<p>JonDP,</p>
<p>Again – I don’t understand how producing a hi-performance version of a 4-dr whatever affects fans of the coupe. For example, the M5 has always been the larger, more powerful and more expensive “big brother” to the M3. Does that make the M3 less desirable to fans of the smaller car?</p>
<p>My only concern with any of this is if the MINI line is expanded to the point where the sales numbers needed to be profitable are difficult to attain.</p>
<p>Ian I honestly do hear you.</p>
<p>Look at it this way. How happy would you be if M turned out the X6 without producing a M3. I guess we could consider the JCW coupe to equal a M3 in the brand (a partially built on hence its lack of a performance suspension and the bone stock look). However I think its more like making a M3 then developing a more powerful X6 (outside of the M division) than the M3. I have little doubt that the 2 liter engine is going to make for a strong performance likely stronger than the JCW Mini and carring a chunk more weight unlike the JCW it will likely have a tunned suspension.</p>
<p>Enough with comparison from Mini to BMW to Mini to what other manufacturers are doing. Why are people so short sighted to say a Mini SUV has no place in their garage or an assembly line. The days of the R50 driving experience are NOT over, just go buy an R50/R53. There is no split between old and new customers. Did VW jetta/golf “dubbers” suddenly decide the touareg, routan, and tiguan were bad ideas, deciding to never take part or participation from VW related events away? What Mini did pre 2001 is just that. Stop reminicing on the past, look ahead to what Mini can and will be in 2010-2020. It is not the brand Mini anymore, it is MINI. They are not just spending a billion dollars to recieve a few million back in new customers. The Mini Cooper isn’t losing its spot on the assembly line so a SAV can be produced. Buy what you like, and others will buy what they like. The badge is what unites everyone to the community. Mini is just making the best possible use of their capital. If you want a Mini 1 series, buy a BMW. If you think they will make a sedan Mini, don’t expect rear wheel drive. Same goes for the roadster/coupe concept. VW has the cool blue concept which is very similar. Dont make things bigger than they are. When was the last Mini car show/meet&greet you went to that had more than five people? To give a comparison to mini’s size in the market, just look at a big VW show, or a Mustang show, drawing thousands of people every weekend, to put things in perspective.</p>
<p>VW really hasn’t stood for much of anything lately, they are more akin to Honda than they are to Mini. Mini thrived on a well documented anti-suv stance for many years. “The SUV backlash has begun”</p>
<p>As for the last time I saw more than 5 people together at a Mini event. Just last weekend at Mini’s in the Moutains.</p>
<p>@<a href="#comment-265970" rel="nofollow">JonPD</a>: @<a href="#comment-265970" rel="nofollow">JonPD</a>:</p>
<p>That goes to show you that marketing is nothing but hot air and tuned to what people and manufacturers want to hear and convey, nothing more nothing less.</p>
<p>@<a href="#comment-265967" rel="nofollow">Chris Harte</a>:</p>
<p>You lost me right around the 3rd line of your ranting….</p>
<p>All will be revealed Next Week.</p>