MF Garage: Week One with the Countryman
In one week I’ve gotten more questions and comments driving the Countryman than I have driving any car since the Tesla Roadster. And that includes the 1M press car I had two weeks ago. Seemingly everyone is at least interested in this new MINI and doesn’t mind coming up to me to share it. And why not. It’s the same general cross-over shape we’ve seen for years but made miniature and more interesting.
From the driver’s seat our Countryman is off to a great start as well. After 500 miles I’m getting seeing anywhere from 20-26 mpg in the city and 30-32 on the highway. However with the heat in Chicago well into the 90’s I have noticed one issue that I hadn’t seen in a MINI since my 2002 Cooper.
With the air on the Countryman has a tendency to feel overly sluggish upon initial acceleration. In fact it’s so bad that I’ve actually stalled the car twice trying to match engine revs and the clutch take-up. Based on my previous experience it seems that this is a problem with the All4 and less with the front wheel drive models.
Speaking of the clutch, the engagement point is noticeably different (ie higher) than any MINI I’ve driven in the past. Worse yet, it’s more vague at the engagement point than I’m used to with other MINIs. It all seems odd knowing that it should be basically the same clutch found in all the other current MINI models. This combined with the engine being sluggish with the aircon has made me feel like a 16 y/o trying to drive a stick for the first time.
All that aside our Countryman is easily the best built MINI I’ve ever driven. From the materials to the feel, MINI has created a distinctly premium car with the R60.
<p>3 weeks in and 3000 kms on the clock, my FWD Cooper D is getting 40-45 mpg (38 mpg US) combined, and yes the initial sluggishness is noticeable with the A/C on, but nothiing too serious. Luckily we have turbos to help us out.</p>
<p>That’s the fix, a six-letter word spelled — DIESEL.</p>
<p>Sounds like a power-to-weight issue coupled with clutch adjustment or redesign fix. This Mini may be miniature compared to a standard crossover/SUV, but in comparison to the rest of Mini models it’s huge. Naturally, with the additional power drain required to drive All4 the problem is likely gearing and/or inadequate bhp. More power to you!</p>
<p>Finding the same with the clutch engagement. I also felt like I was 16 again for the first few drives…</p>
<p>You mentioned the burble sound, but I find it definitely lower than in the hatch. For instance you can’t hear it from distance when the car is taking off at a traffic light.</p>
<p>you get burble when you lift off the accelerator, not when taking off from standing.</p>
<p>you get burble when you lift off the accelerator, not when taking off from standing.</p>
<p>All this clutch trouble, especially compared with my GP, was why I only owned an R56 for three weeks. Sad to see it’s still present in todays car</p>
<p>i’d rather they keep the $500/piece from the manual trans promo and put it back into correcting the design so there aren’t so many clutch failures around 10k.</p>
<p>This feels quite a bit different from the R56 clutch which I’ve always thought felt well executed.</p>
<p>I prefer the R56 clutch to the R50s I’ve driven.</p>
<p>me too. I’d prefer the clutch to wait to engage until it’s more than a 1/2″ off the floor.</p>
<p>My 2002 MCS had the “stumble” from day one and had it when I sold it no matter how many dealer updates it had, sad. Yes it was worse with the AC on. My 2004, still driving it, has been pretty bullet proof, well except for the blown motor at 22,000 but that was caused by a Bott’s dots tru the radiator.</p>
<p>Sad that after how many years of basically producing the same equipment MINI is still unable to produce a trouble free car? Am I wrong in assuming it should be easy by now?</p>
<p>My dad’s 2009 R56 Cooper has 70k miles and has only needed the regular maintenance. Nothing more. My 2004 R50 has 80k miles and has a longer list of random stuff over its 7.5 yrs including a new steering rack at 43k and new engine valve gaskets at 72k. Always starts and is still a blast to drive.</p>
<p>I do agree with the clutch in the R60 though- every test drive I’ve found the same issue with it. My dad’s R56 clutch is fine, a touch lighter than my R50s but still with good feedback. The R60 is just a bit off and seems to need more revs to not bog down and stall. Maybe some rolling fixes will make it better.</p>
<p>Jury’s still out on whether an R60 with the bench will have enough rear space for the family, or if the F30 will be good enough to warrant replacing my E90 or if I should just get an X5 and forget about it. Keeping the MINI forever and for pure driving fun.</p>
<p>Can’t wait to hear more about the Countryman- Thanks Gabe!</p>
<p>Our Countryman test car is totally trouble free and easily the best built MINI I’ve ever driven. My comments around the clutch aren’t meant to highlight a build problem, just an engineering change.</p>
<p>Gabe, haven’t you learned yet not to post even the most minute negative thing?. ;)</p>
<p>For crying out loud it still brings them out of the woodwork…</p>
<p>“In fact it’s so bad that I’ve actually stalled the car twice trying to match engine revs and the clutch take-up”</p>
<p>Gabe how is that trouble free?</p>
<p>It wasn’t meant to be a slam on MINI or Gabe. I was just commenting on why can’t manufacturers, Ford, Chevy, BMW, Audi, whoever!, manufacture a vehicle that has no problems. It’s not they just invented the wheel.
I love my 2004 MINI, can’t imaging owning anything else so if my commenting give you gas… take a Tums and get over it!</p>
<p>Trouble free? Defects? Problems?</p>
<p>Its not about that. Mini has put the take-up point of the clutch at a different point, and Gabe does not like it. Its not broke, he’s saying it was a bad engineering decision.</p>
<p>It is a problem if it was a “bad engineering problem” but maybe we live in different worlds.</p>
<p>Yes we do seem to live in different worlds. It sounds like you are in a world where anything that deviates from how you would like things to be is a “defect”</p>
<p>Over here in my world we tend to recognize a difference between a defect, and a design decision that we disagree with.</p>
<p>BTW, I think the JDR Power ratings for initial quality are in your world.</p>
<p>So we have been butting heads for a long, long time. I think it’s over for me as I like to deal with civil people.</p>
<p>But my last shot will be this…. If the car can’t get off the line it’s a problem in my world. LOL</p>
<p>The car can get off the line if you are willing to alter your comfort zone for operating the clutch. Who wants to do that? No me, but its not a defect.</p>
<p>bmw-mini
build and offer dual cluch trans problem solved
lenn</p>
<p>The stalling has been common on my Countryman All4 since the day I got. Initially, they blamed it on poor non top tier gas, then they upgraded my engine’s ECU. Stall is still there and it’s more prevalent uphill. At one point I had 2 stalls within seconds of each other. They also tell me I’m the only one and they can’t figure out what’s going on.</p>
<p>I’ve always liked the “top tier” gas argument from the dealer. My HPFP went out and they said they wasn’t going to honor my warranty because I didn’t always use certain gas brands. I was told to use 91+ octaine when I first got it, NOT specific brands and that I would pay but then would head over to the courthouse and settle it there. They fixed it under warranty……</p>
<p>The stalling has been common on my Countryman All4 since the day I got. Initially, they blamed it on poor non top tier gas, then they upgraded my engine’s ECU. Stall is still there and it’s more prevalent uphill. At one point I had 2 stalls within seconds of each other. They also tell me I’m the only one and they can’t figure out what’s going on.</p>
<p>Well I see this slugishness and ease to stall on my ’09 JCW with or w/o air on and w/o sport mode on when the day is extremely hot and I drive local at low speeds so that there’s some heat soak in the engine bay that isn’t blown out by higher speeds…. so there’s that. haha</p>
<p>With that said, I enjoyed the Countryman S test drive, but I’d never own one until they’d “bettered” the clunky cheap feeling transmission and very light clutch. I told my saleswoman to call me when they have a JCW version for a test drive.</p>
<p>I was looking forward to a Manual All4 but after driving one of the vaguest clutch set-ups, it’s something i’d never own. It’s a real let down.</p>
<p>Having spent a thousand miles in a CooperSD and would agree with the comments made. The clutch engagement point is noticeably higher than anything that I’ve drien before. That said, once you get more relaxed and used to it it becomes second nature. No problems with the air con running, but then it’s an FWD with the extra torque of a diesel.</p>
<p>The five seat configuration is useful for squeezing an extra per on in if you need to, but they better be small or very good friends with the others in the back.</p>
<p>The only disappointment is the brakes. They are effective, but pedal forces are high and they could be more progressive. Given the sporting pretentions I was expecting better. Maybe the JCW will rectify that.</p>
<p>I have the Sports Suspension option, and even so it tends to dive on one front corner under sudden braking, although the brakes themselves feel pretty much the same as my previous R55. I guess I’ll just have to get used to it till I can afford to have an F56 SD aswell!</p>
<p>Having participated in MINI Rocks the Rivals, I can say that the R60 had the BEST brakes of the bunch!! (VW Tiguan, Toyota Rav4, Nissan Juke)</p>
<p>Maybe I’m spoilt as my daily driver is a 135i which has the BMW Performance brake setup as standard.</p>
<p>Clutch issue = Is Sport Button pushed</p>
<p>I have found that the clutch action/potential stalling has a direct correlation as to whether the sport button is engaged or not</p>
<p>non sport I can not seem to get a nice launch, with it no issues (can get it moving with 1100-1200 rpm) unless I being particularly dopey. I have been driving vehicles with clutches since 9 years old (tractors and the like) and this is indeed one of the more finicky units – discounting crazy camshaft race cars that is..</p>
<p>It’s the same in either mode.</p>
<p>Here’s another long-time manual driver who has stalled his Countryman S All-4 several times. Going uphill in stop-and-go traffic is especially challenging. It seems to be a result of the combination of the high clutch engagement point, fairly abrupt engagement, very little torque at low revs, and a fairly abrupt increase in torque as the engine revs up. It’s an unforgiving combination. Engaging the sport button helps some, but certainly doesn’t eliminate the problem, at least for me. I think the sport mode helps because it gets the revs up to where they need be more quickly, and because it feels like I have more precise control over the revs, but it’s still touchy. I haven’t tried switching off the AC, but living in California, that’s not an attractive option.</p>
<p>Here’s another long-time manual driver who has stalled his Countryman S All-4 several times. Going uphill in stop-and-go traffic is especially challenging. It seems to be a result of the combination of the high clutch engagement point, fairly abrupt engagement, very little torque at low revs, and a fairly abrupt increase in torque as the engine revs up. It’s an unforgiving combination. Engaging the sport button helps some, but certainly doesn’t eliminate the problem, at least for me. I think the sport mode helps because it gets the revs up to where they need be more quickly, and because it feels like I have more precise control over the revs, but it’s still touchy. I haven’t tried switching off the AC, but living in California, that’s not an attractive option.</p>
<p>In the last few years having driven 4 MINI’s, 1 Mini, 1 Audi, 2 Subaru’s, and 1 Toyota I can tell you clutch engagement location is different for every brand. As my wife and I both have JCW currently there is a difference between the 09 and 10 models. Engagement location is a personal preference. I also see the sluggishness right now with the heat soak. Thats part of what driving a manual smoothly makes it enjoyable. If it was easy everyone would do it.</p>
<p>I had the privilege of driving one of these for a week earlier this year. I really wanted to hate it–it really doesn’t fit the MINI brand; it’s a square peg in a round hole, but I have to admit, I liked it–a lot. But it’s a different animal–whereas the MINI is more performance oriented compact with a nod to luxury as a second (but still relatively important) priority, the Countryman feels luxurious with performance as a second priority. I could see myself actually buying one of these for the utility, once the kids are gone.</p>
<p>But there is one serious issue–and that’s price point. A loaded Countryman All4 is in Acura MDX territory from a price standpoint. That’s pretty tough to swallow, as good as the MDX is. It puts the Countryman more into the lifestyle niche more than anything else.</p>
<p>My “lag” seems less noticeable since I mentioned it the other day. I don’t have sport button but I did on the R55 and I’d imagine it would help, as it opens the potentiometer quicker. If Gabe says it’s the same either way, then I’m lost for ideas. Clutch-wise, maybe it has to do with the self-adjusting clutch on the S and the D?</p>
<p>I agree with Gabe, it is a big difference from my R56, and having had BMW roadsters several years ago, I got used to that nice, predictable clutch feel. In my R60 I am experiencing the stalls – mainly uphill or when going from reverse to 1st… I thought I was somehow getting worse at driving. The occasional misstep on the clutch aside, I do really enjoy my R60 and plan to stay in the MINI family for a long time.</p>
<p>Anybody else seeing the chrome surrounding their back windows and liftgate peeling up on their Countryman? I couldn’t believe it was cheap tape! This is my third MINI and I’ve never seen anything like this.</p>
<p>What?! Oh no, I have a Countryman, too, with chrome. I know I washed the car clean and didn’t see anything out of the ordinary, but I’ll check! </p>
<p>Doug, it’s been a while but I have not seen the chrome problem on my back window/liftgate. Hmmm. What did the dealer say about yours?</p>
<p>Interesting that the issue seems to appear with AC as the clutch of the AC unit is designed to disengage under launch and acceleration. </p>
<p>Gabe , are you noticing any harmonic vibration in the front end that you can feel in the seat when the car is under load between 57-63mph in 4th or 5th gear? We have a slushbox that does it and I read on NAM that a fellow CM owner with a manual has the same problem. I took it into the dealer to have it checked and the tech updated the the software but made no difference. He checked the driveline, exhaust and found nothing abnormal. He then took out a brand new R60 turbo All4 and found the same issue.
I think there may be some sort of design flaw. I contacted MINIUSA yesterday to express my concern but the girl said I still need to be in touch with the dealer. We are taking it back in on Friday for an issue with the driver mirror but I want them to do some more research into the drivetrain and contact MINI about it.</p>
<p>Gabe , are you noticing any harmonic vibration in the front end that you
can feel in the seat when the car is under load between 57-63mph in 4th
or 5th gear? We have a slushbox that does it and I read on NAM that a
fellow CM owner with a manual has the same problem. I took it into the
dealer to have it checked and the tech updated the the software but made
no difference. He checked the driveline, exhaust and found nothing
abnormal. He then took out a brand new R60 turbo All4 and found the
same issue.
I think there may be some sort of design flaw. I
contacted MINIUSA yesterday to express my concern but the girl said I
still need to be in touch with the dealer. We are taking it back in on
Friday for an issue with the driver mirror but I want them to do some
more research into the drivetrain and contact MINI about it.
Currently the car is with the dealer and they are keeping it while they are in communication with MINIUSA to see if they can rectify this issue.</p>
<p>I test drove a manual All4 this past weekend and encountered the same thing. I stalled it twice before I left the parking lot and once during the test drive. I drove it for probably 3 minutes and turned around and took it back. The motoring adviser was surprised to see me again so soon, but I told her I hated the clutch in it and had no desire to drive it. It has absolutely no feel and super high engagement… Awful setup. (I find my manual 2008 MCS’ clutch worlds better)</p>
<p>Have you gotten more used to it with time? If you were to purchase this car for yourself, would you get the manual or the auto?</p>
<p>Has it gotten better? No. Have I gotten use to it? Yes. Would I get a manual if I were buying? I probably still would.</p>
<p>The stalling stopped. It’s now running fine, but I probably got used to the manual. I have had no more problems. It’s actually fun to drive and my wife loves the smooth ride.</p>
<p>Besides Aurel here, who is obviously a romanian, who else is? Sint din Cluj-Napoca. Gabe, you romanian?</p>