A familiar story.
Sitting in the front passenger seat of my 2003 Mini Cooper was an engineer from one of the domestic automakers. As we drove down the road—a typically bumpy southeastern Michigan thoroughfare—he commented about the squeaks and rattles he could hear. I am fully, maddeningly, aware of those noises. It’s hard not to be when you have a short wheelbase car with performance run-flat tires that is built in England for a German company. What part of that description does not suggest there is an audible quality gaffe or three to be found?
As we drove on, said engineer remarked that he’d heard a radio report about the Mini’s many quality complaints. In fact, the car didn’t rank near the top in any of the quality rankings, but nevertheless had amazing customer loyalty. Of this, too, I am aware. It’s hard not to be when the car you sometimes dislike seduces you with its looks, charm, and personality to the point you’re often willing to forgive its transgressions. However, this confused the engineer. Isn’t, he asked, quality the ultimate measure of desirability?
If that were the case, most ’02 and ’03 owners would have traded in their MINIs for Corollas. Of course quality, or lack thereof, is an issue but as the article goes onto say:
Mistakenly following the quantifiable path not only gives you white bread products, it can give you iDrive when what you really want is an iPod. Or to put it another way: Would you want to drive a perfectly reliable—but boring—transportation appliance, or a “scratch me behind the ears/c’mon let’s play†kind of car? The choice, I think, is obvious.
[Work or Play?] Automotive Design & Production
Well put. But it’s furthermore worth noting that the 2006 MINI doesn’t have the rattles of a 2002, or the stumble, or the rubbing bonnet seam, and so on. In my opinion, a company’s willingness to fix what problems it has mid-model cycle or even mid-year is almost worth more than building it flawless in the first place. Show me an american car company that does that. Most will put the same faulty, fire-causing ignition in a car for years and not deal with it until they change body styles.
Viva la MINI!
clearly some individuals view automobiles as utilitarian and view quality as most desirable (i.e. they drive boring toyota corrolas). then there are those that view emotion as of primary importance (i.e. they drive a 60s ferrari with there mechanic in the passenger seat and a spare carb in the trunk). most people probably fall somewhere in between the two and mini’s may land in this spectrum closer to the ferrari but have enough passion to overcome any significant faults. but, the major problem with domestic automakers is that a majority of their products possess neither emotion nor quality and thus their predicament.
I’m in 100% agreement with Nathaniel.
Those of us on the internet tend to want things fixed instantly. However, being realistic about how long it takes for large companies to develop, test, document, and rollout changes/fixes into production and retrofits/repair proceedures, MINI has done a very good job at rolling with the punches and improving the product.
I think this article shows exactly why the domestic auto makers are in deep sh@t right now. The engineer should have been focusing on the external styling, the interior styling (looks, feel, design) and the handling/driving quality. You can make an American car reliable which it looks like they’ve done, but they forgot the other part of the equation… the car has to be desireable. They are still operating on the assumption that their cars need to be higher quality, when in reality you can overcome some quality issues with a good overall product. When you get into an american car you’re greated with rubbermaid plastics, sub par leather seats, and overall ugly interiors. Just look at the cobalt or maybe the impala grand prix etc.. Some of their vehicles are a step in the right direction, but still not emotionally interesting.
I hope that makes sense…
My 03 doesn’t rattle, must be an exception?
my 2006 cooper S with JCW rattles like crazy.. but i drive it more than my 2005 M3 and have gotten more complaints! Thumbs up on this one!
I had a squeak in my sunroof (i have an 03) and i bended the plastic peice back a bit so it would stop. I have a sense of self satisfaction now. I can say “my car is fun to drive, and I’m a pro at making occasional fix ups here and there.” THANKS MINI! lol
So what? There’s some squeeks. My last Chrysler / Jeep product was a gas hog boat on wheels. My last two GM products self destructed one piece at a time. My last Ford is an ’82 F 100 pickup that still runs good so I’ll keep that one. And I’m satisfied with the Toyota’s that I’ve owned.
But I love my MINI. It is fun to drive, visually appealing, and you can personalize it. I simply don’t care if there are some flaws.
My ’04 MC is starting to have a few rattles with cooler weather after two and a half years adn 30k miles. But then again, I still have as much fun if not more than the day I bought it and I still stop and look back every time I walk away.
The problem with the domestics is lack of design. When the design is good, the people will buy. If the quality is good, then sales continue. Their quality problems pushed many buyers to Toyota and Honda, and now that quality is improved, they can’t make up for lost sales b/c the attraction isn’t there.
We all know that MINI put the money in the chassis and structure and not the interior plastics, and as a result some rattles show up. The expectations of MINI owners are probably higher too, so we hear more complaints of rattles. My fiance’s Civic rattles more than my Cooper, but she never notices.
At least we know one of the reasons why the domestics are failing. You can’t just chase reliability. If the overall design is poor, nothing else matters.
My 03 rattles like crazy. I just turn up the music, step on the gas, and smile from ear to ear. I love this car!
My 2003 Saturn L-series has a rattling radio despite having the dealership “fix” it a couple of times…it was only fixed after I, errr, adjusted it. It’s been every since. 🙂
My 2006 MCS has no rattles, I’m nearing the 500 mile mark. 😛
Ugh, I think I need to go to bed, my finger’s are NOT awake!
I’ve had two Mini’s, neither of which rattled. If they did, would I still buy them. You bet! They have personality. But they also have no iDrive, thank goodness. I guess even BMW can be somewhat stubborn.
I’m glad you think of the Corolla as a high quality vehicle. Have you driven one lately. It’s not that boring. I happen to be an engineer responsible for reducing squeak & rattle defects at one of the Assembly plants that build the Corolla. I also own an ’05 MCS which has a few intermittent IP rattles. But am still very happy with the overall quality. MINI does not rank high in overall quailty, but it does rank high in some specific catagories. It was the benchmark for paint & body damage with 0 DPHV for ’06 JD Power’s.
I had an 03 MC, and it rattled badly… and it had serious problems with the aircon and electrics. Sold it in disgust after 18 months…. missed it so much despite problems I bought an 06 MCS, and it is the best thing I ever did. People pull up next to me and tell me “nice car”, I get to work with a grin, and get home having had a blast on the way…. I can not see me ever being MINI-less ever again…. the time I spent without a MINI I was just miserable.
Everything Nathaniel said in the first post, and additionally I’d like to point out that Mr. “<em>engineer from one of the domestic automakers</em>” and all of his collegues could stand to learn a thing or two from <a href="http://motoringfile.com/2006/06/22/mini-wins-2006-total-quality-awards/" rel="nofollow">MINI’s improving quality</a>.
Ford has had the ability to bring it’s internationally successful Ka and SportKa to the States for ten years now, but has instead gone the route of introducing more and more, and then even more, SUVs with an eye more toward the number of available cup holders than to overall quality.
The dash may rattle but <a href="http://motoringfile.com/2006/08/25/mini-safety-tested-at-the-nurburgring/" rel="nofollow">a rollover in a MINI</a> has been shown to be less than fatal, whereas the track record of Ford Explorers, Mercury Mountaineers, and Mazda Navajos <a href="http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1441" rel="nofollow">has been quite different</a>.
US Automakers have, in general, a lot to learn — and a huge chunk of that can be from the success of the MINI.
My ’03 MC had a few rattles, but no more that is to be expected on the horrible rodes up here in Maine. My ’06 MCSC only rattles or squeaks when the sunroof is open, or the top is down with all the windows up.
Being a late adopter definitely has it’s benefits. Thus far both of our MINI’s (2005 MCS & 2006 JCW) have been nothing but a joy to own. My MINI always makes me wish I was behind the wheel. Until Detroit can make cars that can do that, they will not improve their position (IMHO).
I’ve put up with numerous reliability and quality issued on by my ’03 and ’05 MINIs. Does they annoy me? Absolutely? But for the first time (and, well, second) in my experience of car ownership, I can look past these flaws because the day-to-day driving experience is so rewarding.
Having said that, I’m still going to wait until the ’08 model year to buy my next one. 😉
Show me a car that doesn’t developed a rattle or two, I’ll show you one that’s never been driven. I have an ’04 S MC40 with almost 30k on the odo, it’s my been my faithful and reliable daily drive for the past two years, and has been the best car i’ve ever owned, despite a few quirks that have required attention by Knauz. I’ve owned 12 cars before my S, none of ever came close to the quailty of the MINI. I can’t wait for the next generation (traveler) 🙂 🙂
Yeay, Barry:
Nice to see someone else has an ’82 Ford F100 sitting in the driveway – stepside, with the wood cargo bed??. Just put a new engine in mine at 260K, and it is my Wife’s daily driver (I get to drive the MINI as I driver further to work). Kind of funny the big complaint is the dash rattle. Had it bad in my ’04, but two trips to the dealer nailed it. MINI knows the exact cause, and has a 6 page service doc on just how to fix it.
Quality is individual and depending upon the form and content, we are more or less willing to give up some quality…the dash rattle in my 05 is just horrid, however…like a handfull of billiard balls knocking together. But I still like the drive.
I have an 06, and I don’t really noctice anything. Could be the fact that I added two boxes of Dynomat to the door for sound dampening. And for those counting thats twice as much as GBMINI put in his. =P
I just took my ’03 MCS in to have the dashboard rattle/buzz fixed for the FOURTH time. I can finally hear the subtle squeaks and groans elsewhere in the cabin. I’m delighted by them, in fact!
In my mind, I don’t want an appliance that “just works”. I want a living, breathing, pulse-quickening, car that’s filled with character. If that means it has some flaws, some squeeks and dents and dings, so be it. But it primarily must excite me. The day cars become predictable and maintenance free is the day they no longer turn heads and become mere shopping carts.
cletus, I hear you. Whenever I have a squeak or rattle fixed, it just opens it up for me to hear another, so I have given up. I have an ’05 with 26K miles and love my car almost as if it were a child of mine. (almost)
I forgive this car a lot, because it pleases me in so many ways that are so emotional. Something most domestic cars could never dream of doing for me.
Corolla = Quality? Who came up with that one?…I drove my neighbors once..bigest piece of garbage i’d been in… and cost wise, what I paid for my MINI I could have had 2 Corolla’s (just guessing here)..but even still, if you offered me 2 Corolla’s for my 1 MINI, I’d still laugh in your face. And just because it’s something an engineer says doesn’t make it right… Heck there are plenty of “engineer’s” that work at Kia, Ford, Chevrolet, etc…it doesn’t mean they know what they are doing or talking about. 😉
Quality and fun to drive are not mutually exclusive. My Integra GSR was most definitely both of those things. A fun car doesn’t have to rattle and break down to have character. The Japanese still are the best at hitting both targets simultaneously.
<blockquote>Corolla = Quality? Who came up with that one?…</blockquote>
Probably the 30 million people who bought one and made it the most popular model in the history of the automoble. Seriously, it’s laughable to say a Corolla is a piece of garbage.
My 03 MCS has only one squeek after 3 1/2 years in Miami.
My 03 has some rattles and I love them in some sick way … I drove an 06 recently and it felt sterile.
I would compare the early MINI to haveing a hot girlfriend with a few issues that can easily be overlooked … well … just because she has those great legs to make you forget everything else 😉
My 02 Cooper had lots of problems, but I still loved it, and the dealer service was excellent, so I traded for an 05 MCS. The 05 has been MUCH better which confirms what Nathaniel said in the first post. The MINI still gets lots of smiles, and lots of people ask questions, and this is after being on the market for four years! This amazes me almost as much as the car does. It is a blast to drive, and a blast to be seen in, and now, it is reliable. A few little squeaks here and there don’t bother me, but then before I got my first MINI I had a Jaguar XJ-S. Now if you want to talk about a money pit…..
You can have both amazing quality and loads of fun – that’s why I bought a 2006 Civic Si.
As I’ve noted before, my ’04 Cooper S has had some minor and major problems. The most major was somewhat life-threatening — the accelerator pedal broke off from the shaft while driving at speed on the 405 freeway during a morning commute.
The dealership was somewhat baffled, but they did not escalate the issue to MINIUSA. I would have expected some sort of interest on it, but nothing. So I don’t really agree that MINI is progressive about fixing their faults. I still have the maddening stumble, and I have all kinds of rattles and noises.
However, as I also said before, the fact that I love driving the car despite its faults shows the true passion the car inspires in its drivers. It is a thoroughly British car — one that inspires passion despite its shortcomings.
The MINI Cooper has uprated harder suspension than most Japanese domestic models and on roads with humps and bumps some rattles must be expected. These can be easily fixed with insulation or teflon tape in the offending areas. The problem is that when you have a car that has quiet interior, any rattle seems annoying. The domestic engineer is like everyone else who works for a car company and finds faults in every other car except their own product. That is until they go work for another company.
Run flat tyres are harder riding. Personally I think they are a rip-off. Ordinary tyres and a mobility kit for emergencies will suffice for most people. What is annoying is the thump-thump you get on freeways where the joins are – a bit like train tracks.
Apart from a short list of defects the MINI is an excellent product.
<blockquote>Probably the 30 million people who bought one and made it the most popular model in the history of the automoble. Seriously, it’s laughable to say a Corolla is a piece of garbage.</blockquote>
What the heck does that have to do with quality rolls eyes The 30 million people that buy those are buying them because that’s what they can afford to buy… not because it’s a quality machine. And for the record, yes, my neighbors Corolla was garbage… emphasis on my neighbors …who’s laughing now =P
<blockquote>What the heck does that have to do with quality rolls eyes The 30 million people that buy those are buying them because that’s what they can afford to buy… not because it’s a quality machine.</blockquote>It has a lot to do with quality. If Corolla were consistently poor quality, its sales would have dried up long ago. If Yugo were good enough quality, it would have become very popular worldwide. Corolla built its sales on quality more than price. There are many cars that cost less but do not sell as well.
Being the first mini owner in the Chicago area I know what it’s like to live with an ’02 mini. Sadly a year ago I sold my mini and headed off to college, now a year later I decided to get a new car and I looked at the mini but after looking at the VW GTI the mini began to look like a poorly built and over priced car. For several thousand dollars less than the comparable mini the GTI has more power, more standard features, more room, and better build quality. After three years and only 8000 miles my mini went through one gearbox, an onboard computer, various trim replacements, several sunroof fixes, and three seat mechanisms, oh and a coolant leek. I was at Knauz so often that I had my own serves bay. But all is well with my GTI in only two months I’ve had no problems, it doesn’t rattle and squeak like the mini did, it’s just built better and I may never go back.
I too left my ’02 for a VW. Loved the mini though got so tired with the dangers imposed by the stumble. Thought that owning a bmw product would’ve been better. The non response from bmw was deafening. The district service rep denied that a problem existed. Yup, there are times I miss the mini, dark sliver w/lapis blue leather. Best seats I’ve ever had in a car.
Have made a pledge not to own another bmw product. The 02’s just weren’t ready in my opinon. I’m sure there’ll be someone that disagrees. Run flats were horrible and replaced after 30k miles with yoko’s which made a better ride.
Have really enjoyed the quality of the Jetta 2.0T and the power, oh the power. Great low end torque, 207lbs. Better gas mileage than the mini ever got, 32highway v 28. Jetta has great pick up, responsive, looks sharp. Back to controls and speedometer being in the right place, great dashboard lighting at night….
Oops, sorry… thought that I was on a vortex.
I picked my 06 MINI over the new VW Rabbit. The Rabbit seemed like a good car, but I’ve heard WAY too many horror stories about VW quality. And with 150hp, it didn’t feel anywhere near as quick and light as a 115hp Cooper. In addition the VW only got 22/30mpg. Those aren’t great numbers for a small hatchback IMO. MINIs just have far more personality and are more fun to drive than anything in their price range. I’m fine with people trying to convince themselves otherwise that their Civics or Corollas are more fun to drive. I’ve driven both extensively and I’ll stick with my MINI. I’m glad that they have improved the quality. Its understandable that some people were frustrated with their older model MINIs, but thats the chance you take when you buy a car in its first model year.
<blockquote>I sold my mini and headed off to college, now a year later I decided to get a new car and I looked at the mini but after looking at the VW GTI the mini began to look like a poorly built and over priced car</blockquote><blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote>I too left my ‘02 for a VW</blockquote><blockquote>
And yet you both are here, reading and posting on a board dedicated to MINIs. Speaks volumes……</blockquote>
I too read that article with great interest. I recently rented a Toyota Tercel while my 2004 MINI underwent some service, the Toyota did everything a car is supposed to do but is just wasn’t exciting or even particularly inviting. Thankfully they make MINI’s for those that have to drive somewhere but would like the journey to be fun too. In the Harley world they have a saying “if you have to ask you wouldn’t understand” it fits the MINI also.
A major downer for me with the GTI, is, if you took a dozen econobox hatch-back rice-burners and domestic rice-burner knock-offs, lined them all up, then put the VW GTI in the line, and finally went along the line and removed all the cars’ manufacturer emblems – then asked passers by to pick out the GTI – no one would be able to. Take off the MINIs emblems and put it in that line, and EVERYBODY would still be able to pick out the MINI.
Why do VW converts even bother to keep visiting a MINI site? Does VW have a similar site for owners?
I don’t expect to read about VWs on this site no matter how bad or good they are. Why? Because I am a MINI person and can forgive any shortcomings the car may have. The perfect car has never been made. Even the human body has flaws so why expect more from a car?
I have a 06 MCS JCW and with 5000 miles on it with no rattles as yet. I’m 62 years old and have owned everything from Pantera’s and Corvette’s to Chevy Novas and hot rods and the MC has been more fun than anything I’ve owned to date.
I wouldn’t be too hard on the engineers. The engineers only do what they are told to do by the bean counters who tell them cut corners in order to increase profits. This is a universal short sighted problem throughout our society called GREED. Detroit still doesn’t get it. The Japanese succeeded in beating them because they built a quality car at a reasonable price, betting that the customer would come back, and they did. Now the Japanese and the Germans have found another equation that Detroit hasn’t and that’s called the Fun Factor.