Potentially huge news for the next generation of MINIs set to debut around 2012 (via Motoring Authority):
>Unlikely bedmates BMW and the PSA Peugeot Citroen Group are breaking up – or at least asking each other for some space. The two companies had joined forces in recent years to produce a range of 1.4L to 1.6L motors, powering BMW’s second-generation MINI and cars from Peugeot and Citroen. The venture was originally intended to help the auto makers to improve engine technology in the fiercely competitive compact car segment, while saving money by sharing development costs.


>BMW development executive Klaus Draeger recently told a German industry publication that cooperation with PSA was effectively ended. This news comes despite plans in late 2006 to evaluate the expansion of joint engine development efforts. Despite the success of the motors spawned by the joint venture, the engines were quite expensive to produce according to PSA boss Christian Streiff.
[ BMW and PSA to End Engine Development ] Motoring Authority
Be nice if BMW would team up with a manufacturer who can build/certify a MINI Diesel engine for the U.S. market, that meets all State emission standards.
so how long before the current contract expires? 2012? Really?
Why is this huge news? Wasn’t it that joint venture that brought us cars that are a blast to drive and provide delightful gas mileage?
Hopefully BMW will just build their own engines for MINI now. Then the Works division can be like BMW’s M division.
…sometimes one partner wants one thing and the other, another, from the product being joint ventured. Although, seemingly little details can be of major importance to either partner, creating an environment for failure.
Personally, the mini is a BMW and ought to have a purebred under the bonnet, especially given the huge cost of the JCW motor.
Good. Let’s get back to a bulletproof I4 with a supercharger as an option. Has anyone but me heard that the some of the new turbo engines are breaking cranks due to their inability to take the torque at high speed? I heard it from a reputable source whilst I was in the UK. Doesn’t sound like a good bet for track days, does it? BTW, still haven’t seen a new MINI at the track.
>Hopefully BMW will just build their own engines for MINI now. Then the Works division can be like BMW’s M division.
BMW designed and engineered the “Prince” family of engines with only some various input by PSA. Based on that, one could easily call this a BMW engine.
>Good. Let’s get back to a bulletproof I4 with a supercharger as an option. Has anyone but me heard that the some of the new turbo engines are breaking cranks due to their inability to take the torque at high speed? I heard it from a reputable source whilst I was in the UK. Doesn’t sound like a good bet for track days, does it?
According to the folks “inside” I’ve spoken with (and who aren’t afraid to tell it like it is), the new engine is a god-send in terms of warranty claims so far. There were some heat issues with early builds but according to two sources, that has been resolved.
>BTW, still haven’t seen a new MINI at the track.
You must have missed this:
[ <a href="https://www.motoringfile.com/2007/08/31/taking-it-to-the-track-wthe-bmwcca/" rel="nofollow">Taking it to the Track</a> ] MotoringFile
<embed style="width:468px; height:379px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=4701092988428234538&hl=en" flashvars=""> </embed>
<em>Disclaimer: <b>absolutely not a race</b>! If you watch closely you’ll see me giving the cars in front plenty of room in the corners and in fact slowing down a little before and after entering. All passing was done within designated areas of the track after I was given a signal by the person in front.
</em>
Imagine, a purebred BMW engine in a MINI. Hurrah! I won’t argue the bad or good points of the current engines. Whatever they are, a true BMW engine will be better – assuming BMW does build the next generation engine.
Gabe,
What does this mean in terms of owning an MCS with this engine? Parts and repairs long term?
How long can you speculate that this engine (in its current form) with power the MINI/MINI S? (will this be a shorter run than the TriTec?)
Does this mean that for the duration that this engine is used we will not see any power gains or improvements over its lifetime (the 2007 engine is what we get)?
If its a short run what does this mean for future resale?
In your honest opinion does this engine (in terms of reliability) equal or even surpass the TriTec (short and speculated long term?)
Is the current JCW all we are going to see (OEM power upgrades) from this engine?
I agree wholeheartedly. I would love to see BMW build a MINI-specific powerplant, from scratch, without needing to make concessions for what other partners might want or need with this powerplant. No more settling.
Not to say that the MK1 or MK2 MINI engines are lacking in any way, but whow knows how much more potent they could have been if they were designed for only the MINI, from day one…
I also wanted to add, IMHO, this is not a good thing. nobody wants to drive/own a car with a limited edition engine powering it.
Let’s see… about six years of production @ 200K+ MINI’s per year… plus however many non-MINI’s procuded… I doubt part availability will be a problem for quite some time. I have a similar lack of concern regarding the Tritec.
Woo! Gabe! PM me for my source on the UK rumor. And is there any chance you can bring that turbo screamer to my NorCal tracks (Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Thunderhill) anytime soon?
Cheers,
Sid
Gabe, Just watched the video. I love your hand position and your calm shifting. However, I see red Mini (2005 MCS?) spanking you on the straights until he makes a mistake and lets you by. You have good cornering skills, but your car lacks a little HP. I would love to have you come play with me.
Sid
>Gabe, Just watched the video. I love your hand position and your calm shifting. However, I see red Mini (2005 MCS?) spanking you on the straights until he makes a mistake and lets you by. You have good cornering skills, but your car lacks a little HP. I would love to have you come play with me.
Sid – you missed the first posting of this where I explained that I was easing off the throttle to allow him room into the first corner. I didn’t want to rear-end anyone at 110mph 🙂
No I didn’t miss your disclaimer. I just want to drive your right seat and show you what you can do with this machine.
Cheers,
Sid
>No I didn’t miss your disclaimer. I just want to drive your right seat and show you what you can do with this machine.
Sid – you have to understand there were a lot of things going on that you can’t exactly see here. For one my instructor (20+ years of instructing at professional schools) and I were involved in a conversation about countless aspects of the track, the car and what the red MINI was doing in front of me. He urged me to hold off on the straights and strategically see where I was faster in the corners to better understand the dynamics of both cars. Plus there’s the fact that I was clearly faster than him (and everyone else out there save the GT3) and I didn’t feel the need to push him unnecessarily if he wasn’t going to immediately move over.
Got it. I still want to get you on my tracks.
>Got it. I still want to get you on my tracks.
Count me in! Of course there is the nasty problem of 3000 miles 😉
>What does this mean in terms of owning an MCS with this engine? Parts and repairs long term?
Nothing really. BMW stocks parts for it’s cars from the 70’s and 80’s currently and those cars had engine runs that aren’t that dissimilar.
>How long can you speculate that this engine (in its current form) with power the MINI/MINI S? (will this be a shorter run than the TriTec?)
Not sure I understand the question.
>Does this mean that for the duration that this engine is used we will not see any power gains or improvements over its lifetime (the 2007 engine is what we get)?
It’s just like any BMW engine program. The engine was designed and it will be refined probably once during its lifecycle. Even the Chrysler designed Tritec followed this trend.
>If its a short run what does this mean for future resale?
Again this follows the typical BMW engine life-cycle.
>In your honest opinion does this engine (in terms of reliability) equal or even surpass the TriTec (short and speculated long term?)
The Tritec is stronger in some ways due to the old-school iron block. However the Prince engine hasn’t had some of the issues the Tritec was troubled with throughout it’s life-cycle. It’s probably a toss-up. <strong>Both are great little engines with two distinctly different characters. </strong>
>Is the current JCW all we are going to see (OEM power upgrades) from this engine?
Yes.
Speaking about suggesting a purebred BMW engine for the MINI, didn’t BMW make a 3 door hatchback in the 90’s called the 318ti? in the States (now a ceased production). Think of a revamped 1.8 liter turbo mill by BMW (only).
The 318ti. Man, that car was so underrated and overlooked. It was the right car at the wrong time (back in 95, the SUV craze) . Being the lightest, cheapest, most economical and best handling BMW. Isn’t that what we want right now??
I’m hyping the 1 series coming to America. So are millions of just-turned eco-friendly Americans. We take too much for granted.
For some reason you in USA didn’t get the 4 cylinder BMW 1.6 and 1.8 engines.
As far as I know, the MINI engine is made in THEIR factory at Hams Hall and has a lot of BMW bits like valvetronic added to the basic raw engine. How this is called a joint venture?
If I remember right, PSA Peugeot Citroen Group makes the engine blocks in their factory in France, and ships them to Hames Hall for assembly.
Qui tought que ceci fonctionnerait ?
Ubi didicisti gubernare currum? In fuga ab Hunnis?
* translation:
Where did you learn to drive? Fleeing from the Huns?
Sid, not sure what that meant? What language is that? I tried both italian and french in my translator and nada. Anybody in their right minds would flee the huns.
Aren’t you the NorCal guy with the William of Orange rims?