MF Exclusive Interview: MINI USA Product Manager Talks Countryman (Part 2)
Friday we gave you part one of our interview with MINI Product manager Vinnie Kung. If you missed it, do yourself a huge favor and scroll down the page and start reading. For those interested in the R60 and MINI has a whole it’s a fascinating conversation with loads of new information we won’t get anywhere else.
However as promised today we’re bringing part 2…
MotoringFile: What does the Countryman mean for the Clubman? It would seem the two are very close in size overall.
Vinnie Kung:There is more of a size difference than what the pictures convey. The Countryman is focused on people with greater space and comfort needs while the Clubman will remain as the perfect choice for those that want something funky, cool and just as nimble as the Hardtop. In essence, both can live side by side as they still have the style and handling that we expect from a MINI. But it probably won’t be this way for too long.
Q: Will the Countryman form the basis of any other models such as a lower four door MINI (sans the crossover height) or a beachcomber type of vehicle?
VK: The Countryman is R60 and we have plenty of numbers to use until R69.
MF: For enough. Ok let’s talk R60 specifications for a minute. What is the maximum wheel/tire combo MINI will sell at the dealer?
VK: Well, we have typically offered accessory wheels that are one inch larger than the biggest factory offering. So, if 17s are standard and 18s are optional…
MF: Are there any plans for a spare in any model?
VK: We wanted this from the beginning, but due to rear-impact crash standards and the lack of available space to make it all work, we were unable to get a spare tire. Because we wanted an extra margin of safety, we added runflat tires for free (a pricing battle that we won.)
MF: Are there any chances of a diesel power Countryman coming to the US?
VK: This scenario is the same as the one we have for all of today’s MINI Diesels. We’ve tried to make the business case work for the R60 as well, but it is incredibly negative because of the staggering costs to convert the European market Cooper D or One Diesel (even the new BMW Diesel engine) to 50 State specification. While the SCR technology isn’t too bad, the necessary rework for the stampings means the body-in-white is affected and once you touch that, it’s big bucks. It would have been over $10,000 more per car and while we’re not always the brightest bulbs in the closet, we knew that it would not succeed at that price premium.
MF: Ok, a few easier ones. There’s been a lot made about the Countryman being the largest MINI. But what does that mean in terms of cargo. In the release it was mentioned that it has 41 cubic feet with the seats folded down. How wide is this space? Are there any accessories planned for this area to accommodate bikes etc?
VK: The size increase for the Countryman is mostly found in the interior. We don’t have final specs yet, but unlike some of our competitors, we will not have those two annoying humps that intrude on the rear cargo area from the shock towers. Because our multi-link rear suspension is so compact, we will have a very open and wide loading area.
MF: Is MINI considering a towing package for the R60?
VK: The platform is designed to accommodate towing in Europe but for the US, because of the requirements by the DOT for crash testing everything we sell from a production level, we will not have a hitch system available from the factory. This is why a dealer-installed setup is our best alternative, but this also requires certification so it will not be available from the start.
MF: How much of the R60 interior is a sneak peak at the R55/R56/R57 refreshed interior
VK: The two vehicles lines are very different, so not much carries over. However, some elements that we’ve seen in the Roadster and Coupe concepts may make it to our upcoming update.
MF: What type of new colors can we expect with the R60? Any carry-overs from the current line?
VK: We get all-new colors because the paint system in Graz is completely different than that of the Oxford plant. So, we will get all new mixes and all new names
MF: Any chance of getting a 3 seat bench option in the US at some point? We understand there are US regulations are the issue at hand but would MINI considering selling the option through dealers?
VK:There is no plan to have the three-seater rear due to US requirements for vehicles our size. Because a rear-seat retrofit requires seatbelt changes, this modifies the car’s safety standard that is acknowledged by the US DOT. So, we will not have it available for retrofit.
MF: A lot of thought seems to be going into the rail system. Are you planning on bringing this to the rest of the Mini line?
VK:The R60 platform benefits from having the widest and tallest MINI interior, so a Center Rail makes sense. If this concept were to be put into an R5x, it would compromise the existing interior space quite a bit, so it didn’t make sense for us to bring it there. The one-piece rail will be standard in the US with a rear armrest optional. The two piece center rail is planned to be a no cost option for those of us with little ones.
MF: We reported a few weeks back that MINI cannot use Countryman in all markets due to naming rights issues. Any idea what those markets are and what the R60 will be called there
VK: It’s only in Japan where we find a different name being used. There, a small conversion company creates special versions of the R55 and calls them Countryman. Basically, they wanted a lot of money for us to use it so we said Sayonara to the problem and went with “MINI Crossover†there while Countryman is used everywhere else.
And with that we also say also sayonara. Thanks Vinnie!
<p>Thanks Gabe for part 2 and many thanks to Vinnie for the fantastic interview. It was very informative indeed.</p>
<p>I am sure the two piece center rail option will make many people happy, since the Countryman will be the choice for families with little ones. Somehow it looks better than the one piece in my opinion.</p>
<p>As for having Clubman and Countryman together… For people who will be buying the “other” MINI for more space, the choice is going to be the Countryman, and this will be the majority. In my opinion, the people who want a Clubman for its handling and agility and the space -as a secondary benefit- will be in minority. Let’s see what the sales numbers will show once they are together at the showrooms next year.</p>
<p>Sounds like the Clubman will be axed. Terrible, just terrible.</p>
<p>No tow package or spare tire. Not good.</p>
<p>I still question claims about “more space” in the Countryman. Can anyone provide measurements for the rear (leg, shoulder, hip and head room) and trunk space?</p>
<p>i think the hatch is too small to comfortably fit more than 2 people for more than cross-town trips. i opted for the clubman because it drove great and fit 4 real people(and i’m a sucker for the suicide door). i’m not terribly interested in a raised cuv, but if the rumors of the countryman with the height of the hatch come true, i’ll be significantly less disappointed.</p>
<p>i am slightly concerned that 3000 lb will be too much for the current s engine to cope with though. if this requires a jcw engine for me to enjoy the same performance as the clubman s, my checking account will not agree so readily…</p>
<p>Drove the Clubman 300 miles on Saturday and was mighty comfortable. Averaged 31.2 MPG with the sport button on (This is for an S with the automatic transmission). The stability and power delivery of the car are sensational in the highway.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s because it’s Monday morning, but I can’t for the life of me figure out why the two-piece rail would be offered for “those of us with little ones”.</p>
<p>I have a little one, with a second on the way, and I can instantly see the utility of the rail system for shuttling drink cups to the back, or for mounting a portable DVD player or something. I could see it being an issue if they were running around in the back or something, but with car seats and such?</p>
<p>Honestly I think the single-piece rail would be a bigger hassle with dogs than with children…but I’m sure I’m missing something.</p>
<p>I wonder since this will be released in early 2011, will this be released as a 2011 model or 2012. I can only think it would make sense to release it as a 2012…… thoughts?</p>
<p>@Matt, with a 3+ year old toddler and another baby boy on the way, seems to me I would grow pretty annoyed with that rail thing stuck in the middle of the car.</p>
<p>Pity about the lack of a spare tire and the decision to go with runflat tires. Runflats are costly to even ditch as tire places charge more to dismount them than a regular tire. I do see the Countryman as a Subaru Forester competitor in ALL4 configuration but at a significant price difference.</p>
<p>Not sure I followed the explanation of the diesel’s extra expense. Vin says it will cost 10k more because the diesel requires a revision of the sheet-metal, yet that can’t be the case for a Euro diesel spec Countryman. What does this mean? No diesel in Europe? Or the US spec diesel is so different that it won’t fit in the same stampings? Is this because the fluid tank for the urea injection?</p>
<p>Also – the comment about R69 went over my head as an answer to the question about a lower four door car. Gabe – can you interpret that for us?</p>
<p>Once excited about the R60 it is quickly losing its lustre. No bench, run flat tires, no spare, no diesel. ugh.</p>
<p>I guess I am back on the market for a small-ish SUV type of care. The CRV seems a bit big nowadays, any suggestions?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Vin says it will cost 10k more because the diesel requires a revision of the sheet-metal, yet that can’t be the case for a Euro diesel spec Countryman. What does this mean? No diesel in Europe? Or the US spec diesel is so different that it won’t fit in the same stampings? Is this because the fluid tank for the urea injection?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is because the need for urea injection and the tank and different rear sheet metal for the fill spot. It’s solely due to the CA particulate regulation.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Also – the comment about R69 went over my head as an answer to the question about a lower four door car. Gabe – can you interpret that for us?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>MINI has a lot of possibilities with this new platform.</p>
<p>@C4 – don’t see why it’d be annoying. After all it’s not like there’s a center seat for it to interfere with. The biggest PITA that I could see would be it getting in the way when you turn and reach for whatever cup or hot wheels car or whatnot that the kiddo has dropped to the floor…</p>
<p>This is my first post on here about the R60 and I am excited about it. I would like some feedback or comments about replacing the run-flat tires with standard ones. My late father had a car that came with run-flats from the factory, but since he did not like them, he had them replaced with standard tires and added a spare in the back of the car. Sure, he lost some cargo space, but he did not need all of it anyway, so he was very happy.</p>
<p>Could regular tires be put on the R60 and a mini or possibly regular spare be added in the rear hatch area? Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreicated! Thanks in advance!</p>
<p>Great article. Getting used to 2 rear seats instead of 3 is a bit easier to imagine, having seen other cars go this route lately. It’s not preferable, but workable.</p>
<p>Impressed as usual with all the thinking that MINI put into the car, and why they arrived at the solutions they did. It seems pretty clear that MINI would like to do a diesel here–VW is doing great with theirs. Hopefully the business case can be made, and maybe the success of the Countryman will be an aid in that cause for all MINI’s.</p>
<p>I’ve been waiting for details regarding the Countryman diesel since hearing about the new model — and am <em>very</em> disappointed at both the lack of a diesel option and lack of planning on the part of Mini to make this option reasonably priced (let alone available) in the US.
Guaranteed sale … lost. Well done, Mini!</p>
<p>Gabe, thank Vinnie for including the pic of the split center-rail system for the R56. It’s very interesting to see how MINI is planning to carry new tech over to the existing models.</p>
<p>Am I missing something, or does this portend the demise of the Clubman?</p>
<blockquote>In essence, both can live side by side as they still have the style and handling that we expect from a MINI. But it probably won’t be this way for too long.</blockquote>
<p>Whoops, when he said “little ones” I thought he meant the R56. Freudian slip! ;)</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
Vin says it will cost 10k more because the diesel requires a revision of the sheet-metal, yet that can’t be the case for a Euro diesel spec Countryman. What does this mean? No diesel in Europe? Or the US spec diesel is so different that it won’t fit in the same stampings? Is this because the fluid tank for the urea injection?
</blockquote>
It is because the need for urea injection and the tank and different rear sheet metal for the fill spot. It’s solely due to the CA particulate regulation.</blockquote>
<p>It costs 10k more because diesel is still being treated as a step-child and an afterthought. The sheet metal should have been designed to accommodate the diesel from the start. the <strong>baseline</strong> for this vehicle should have been a diesel. Furthermore it costs 10k more thanks to govt. regulation, which is seemingly very popular these days despite the cost it drives to our wallet!</p>
<blockquote><p>It costs 10k more because diesel is still being treated as a step-child and an afterthought. The sheet metal should have been designed to accommodate the diesel from the start. the <strong>baseline</strong> for this vehicle should have been a diesel. Furthermore it costs 10k more thanks to govt. regulation, which is seemingly very popular these days despite the cost it drives to our wallet!</p></blockquote>
<p>So what you’re saying is that BMW should have foreseen the regulation landscape as they were developing the car. Then engineered everything again based on an assumption of future regulations. Also a huge assumption would have been sales of a diesel car in the US as there were none of quantity 5-6 years ago when this car was being first created. I have spoken with many many people at BMW who would have loved to have brought a diesel R60 to the US and would still do so if they could. But the fact is that there are many many things that go into these decisions that are not up to the automakers.</p>
<p>And let me add that I completely understand your point. But it’s often a guessing game and for a small manufacturer like BMW, guessing like this is a huge gamble with their future financial security.</p>
<p>I would have been overjoyed, like many other people I am sure,to be able to buy a diesel R60 in the states.</p>
<p>Gabe, or anyone else, any ideas about replacing the run-flats with regular tires and adding a spare in the back hatch area? Anyone?</p>
<p>MINI has lost me, one of the biggest advocates for the Countryman, as a prospective buyer of this vehicle. With seating for 4, runflats and no exterior mounted spare, the utility has been removed in my eyes.</p>
<p>I like what I read about the roof rail system, but the interior center rail thing is a waste of space! Too gimmicky and not needed.</p>
<p>If MINI ever decides to produce the Beachcomber, I might reconsider. The Countryman gives us little more than an AWD option and a higher stance on pathetic low-profile tires. Disappointing, to say the least.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Gabe, or anyone else, any ideas about replacing the run-flats with regular tires and adding a spare in the back hatch area? Anyone?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There’s no reason you can’t replace the runflats with standard tires (just like on any other car equipped with runflats from the factory).</p>
<p>Additionally it would seem that someone (maybe one of our MINI related advertisers) will surely come up with a solution for a spare secured in the boot area.</p>
<p>Well, I take it the Clubman has 2 years max of shelf life left from this Q&A.</p>
<p>But really at this point what bothers me most about the Countryman is that there is really nothing exciting about it. Looks well executed and functional but nothing that makes it unique.</p>
<p>The “masses” that typically won’t buy or think of a MINI might eat this up and hopefully make a lot of dough for BMW so they can get going on hopefully a jawdropping hatch refresh.</p>
<blockquote>I can’t for the life of me figure out why the two-piece rail would be offered for “those of us with little onesâ€.</blockquote>
<p>I think what he meant is that a kid who enters from the curb side would otherwise have to climb over a one-piece rail to get into the seat behind the driver. But this would apply to adult passengers as well, so I’m not sure why the reference to “little ones”. The 2-piece rail should be considered for city driving with rear passengers where curb side loading/unloading may be safer.</p>
<blockquote>Well, I take it the Clubman has 2 years max of shelf life left from this Q&A.</blockquote>
<p>Vinnie made the cryptic comment, “But it probably won’t be this way for too long”. I interpret this to mean that MINI will keep making the Clubman as long as it has adequate sales, but they fully expect demand will drop due to the Countryman.</p>
<blockquote> “So what you’re saying is that BMW should have foreseen the regulation landscape as they were developing the car. Then engineered everything again based on an assumption of future regulations. Also a huge assumption would have been sales of a diesel car in the US as there were none of quantity 5-6 years ago when this car was being first created. I have spoken with many many people at BMW who would have loved to have brought a diesel R60 to the US and would still do so if they could.”</blockquote>
<p>I’m going to disagree with you here, Gabe. California’s regulations were put in place in 2000/2001. They were updated in 2003/2004 to include tougher regulations on NOx emissions and sulfur and aromatics. Are you arguing that by 2004, R60 development had progressed too far for them to adopt design changes to accommodate a diesel engine?
I will buy the argument that the market wasn’t there 5 years ago and so there was no business argument for developing diesel for US MINIs. But while that was the case 5 years ago, it certainly is not today and perhaps I’ve missed it but I’ve yet to see some committed action from BMW to say “we get it…we’re initiating a new project to build a cross-platform diesel engine that will meet US regulations”.</p>
<p>I’m still excited about this car and I know it will be pretty successful in the US market. But for me it’s beginning to sound like I would have to move abroad to get the R60 I want.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why they can’t develop clean diesel w/o urea injection. From VW’s site</p>
<p>Q: What is Clean Diesel?
A: Clean Diesel really has two parts: fuel and engine technology. On the fuel side, Clean Diesel is an ultra-low sulfur fuel that makes it possible for diesel engines to burn cleaner, provided that the engine offers the necessary emissions control and fuel injection systems. For example, VW TDI® engines use a system that sprays fuel directly into the combustion chamber, which encourages complete combustion and more efficient fuel use*. On the tailpipe side of things, smaller clean diesel engines use a filter to trap and burn off nitrous oxides (NOx). The Touareg TDI is different, however, as it also uses a urea-injection system to reduce NOx. Click here for more about clean diesel.</p>
<p>It would seem that developing a small diesel to meet regulations w/o urea injection is possible as VW has done.</p>
<p>Still loving the car though. Will someday replace my R56 MC.</p>
<p>Loving the picture of the cargo area with seats folded down. Has an awful lot of space. That will fit my needs nicely.</p>
<p>I think the engine will do just fine. There are many that clamor for the Mini One to be brought over. If you can pull the hatch with 95 hp the countryman will do fine on 120.</p>
<p>></p>
<p>It would seem that developing a small diesel to meet regulations w/o urea injection is possible as VW has done.</p>
<p>VW’s a much larger company with two brands that historically can make use of four cylinder engines. Their four cylinder diesel wasn’t as much of a stretch for them to develop and put in both Audi’s and multiple VW products. The key there of course is multiple products. Because they have so many that they can market with a diesel they have a fighting chance at getting their development costs back.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I’m going to disagree with you here, Gabe. California’s regulations were put in place in 2000/2001. They were updated in 2003/2004 to include tougher regulations on NOx emissions and sulfur and aromatics. Are you arguing that by 2004, R60 development had progressed too far for them to adopt design changes to accommodate a diesel engine?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There are many reasons. For starters yes, development started around that time. With regs in flux (as they had been up to that point) BMW was a little gun-shy to invest tens of millions of dollars into something that may not actually pass regulations in 8 years time.</p>
<p>That’s the other thing you have to remember is that they would need this engine to pass regs not only for 2011 but for the life of the car (into 2018). As it stands now with new regs upcoming, it won’t get past 2015.</p>
<p>The argument you are making is one I’ve personally made to people at BMW and MINI. I think they could have federalized the 2.0L four cylinder and dropped it into the 3 Series and the Countryman. Instead they went with the most powerful diesel (a six cylinder twin turbo) and put it into the X5 and the 3er. Was it a mistake? 25% of all X5s in December were diesels. The 3 Series hasn’t done that well on the other hand so I suppose you could say it’s been a mixed bag. Regardless it was a huge gamble for a company like BMW and I can understand why they went safe.</p>
<p>That said I personally wish they hadn’t.</p>
<p>MINI do more or MINI FINI will have things down the road for tire and hitch ideas. The factory kits fro BMW are nice but very expensive, some trailer kits in europe factory bmw are well over 5,000.
Gabe, do you remember the factory motorcycle trailer for e38, e34, e32?</p>
<p>Without a 3 seat rear row, they have lost me. I have three kids, and would love a MINI that could move the family around town.</p>
<p>Here’s the compromise…If it is California that is keeping the Diesel from being brought over…
then Don’t offer it for sale in California!</p>
<p>Problem Solved!</p>
<p>@Sideways Eh!</p>
<p>That would be a problem for MINI, as their sales are much more concentrated on the East and West coasts than other brands. California is a big market for MINI, so if they take that out of the picture it makes the business case for a diesel MINI even worse! Sales are already so low for MINI, if they take California out of the equation it would be very hard to offer this car at a price that would actually sell and at a price that does not cause MINI to lose a lot of money.</p>
<p>I think that we might have a chance of seeing a diesel in the US when the next generation MINI comes out, but that would depend on if BMW can find a way to use that same engine in some of their models… perhaps the next-gen 1-series or 3-series and the new X1.</p>
<p>I’d guess that the Clubman is not replaced by the Countryman, but rather a new Clubman – A lower more car like model built on the R60 platform. That could be a big seller for Mini. Something at the lower range of the C size cars – smaller than a Golf bigger than the B class Mini Coupe. This would be the sweet spot – more mini than the competition, and also put an end to the cross class comparisons between the Mini and larger cars.</p>
<p>I just had a clubman for a day while my car was serviced. Its a great package, but felt noticeably bigger than my coupe. I think they would be better served by offering something that stepped up a class, rather than being so close in size to the coupe.</p>
<p>No 3 seat bench option = FAIL.</p>
<p>1) Rail takes up space
2) Hard to climb/reach over rail when needed
3) Can’t sit next to baby, and the reach may be difficult, especially with seat belt on
4) Still limited to 4 passengers, which I can do in the coupe</p>