USA Beats Europe for Reliability

Sections: Uncategorized Mar 9th, 2004 32 Comments

USA Today has an article about either increasing reliability for US automakers or decreasing reliability for Euro car companies – depending on how you look at it. What may make this interesting to MINI owners is the MINI is featured in the article. Here are some excerpts:

For the first time in 24 years of comparison, the average domestic car is more reliable than the average – and often more expensive – European car, according to the 2004 Consumer Reports auto issue, which hits newsstands Tuesday.

…The popular BMW Mini Cooper also had worse-than-average reliability, but Mini spokesman Andrew Cutler says that's because Mini owners are more passionate about their vehicles and, therefore, more likely to report problems.

“When someone is passionate about their car, they have a tendency to be very savvy, and they will be more in tune to what goes wrong with their car,” Cutler says.

Some good news for the Europeans: Their owners tend to like them. Europeans beat American brands in the number of models that owners said they would buy again. The Mini Cooper, Porsche Boxster, Volvo XC90, various versions of the BMW 3 Series and the BMW Z4 roadster were among the European models owners said they would buy again. Only three domestic models – Chevrolet Corvette and Tahoe and Hummer H2 – were picked by owners as possible repeat buys.

You can read the entire article here.

MotoringFile Analysis

As a MINI owner I can attest to the car not being perfect. But I can also attest to being overly critical of every little issue. Issues I know my non-enthusiast friend would never even know exist. I'm convinced that Andrew Cutler is absolutely correct and that this had to have had some impact on these results.

That being said I know there are areas that MINI can improve on in the design of the car. There are lingering issues we're all familiar with that, while not serious, are certainly annoying. Let's hope that the rumors of a new/improved windshield design and ever improving engine software are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to MINI dealing with these issues.

Written By: MF Staff

R

The Mini Cooper is a fun car. Not built that well but fun. Really.

Yesterday had to drive down to Irvine, in So Cal, and the top windscreen moulding came flying off. The dealer had replaced the windscreen about a month or 2 ago. I still have a multitude of squeaks and rattles and parts falling apart. I put some Velcro on the backside of the air diverters for the moon roof to stop the moonroof from sqeaking when my wife was in the passenger seat, she's petite. The dealer couldn't fix it.

Kind of reminds me of the people I knew that owned MG's back in the 70's. They loved the cars and put up with the bad electrics, crappy workmanship and so on because the car was fun.

I understand the car is new but 3 years into manufacturing and still this many problems. In the 7 months I have owned my MCS I have had 90% more problems than I ever had in 7 years with my Toyota 4Runner.

CD whatever did help with the general launch of the car [MCS] but as the temps, in LA , get higher I'm starting to notice some of the stumble coming back.

BMW/MINI had better get smart or they will become the MG of this century.

Most of those “X” MG owners that I still know wondered what they were thinking.

I'll give it a year and if this BS goes on they'll lose me and many others………R
Joe

My 2003 MCS has been flawless and I have a 120 mile commute every day. I do agree with Mr. Cutler, MINI owners are very savvy about their car and take care of them like a pet.
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabriel Bridger

I think it also helps to have a great dealer to help with the little issues.
http://homepage.mac.com/sdiver/iblog/ Steven Diver

I have to agree with the statement that MINI owners are a little more “passionate” about their automobiles than the average consumer, and therefore are more likely to report problems.

The majority of MINI owners (and european car owners for that matter) I have met, tend to lean towards the slightly obsessive-compulsive when it comes towards their vehicles. One just does not see people like this purchasing Ford Taurus or Focii (Focus), Chevy Monte Carlos or Cavaliers, Dodge Neons or Intrepids. They want something of higher design and build quality, but they are also more likely to report a problem, no matter how small or insignificant. They seem to understand that their reporting of the “problem” will help to solve the “problem” and create better designs for the future of the car (of course that could just be the designer in me speaking).

Speaking from experience, I've owned American cars (until my MINI) my entire life, and my girlfriend currently drives a Ford Focus. American car quality/reliability has gotten better, but it still has a long way to go before it reaches the level of European vehicles in terms of design, quality, and reliability. I mean, how many American cars go 15,000 miles between oil changes (hint:0).

This seems more like the sort of survey that American car companies skew to make their reputation look better in comparison. In a time of lagging automotive sales, they need every bit of help they can get. Just my opinion though, after all, I could not pry my girlfriend's Focus out of her hands if I tried, she seems to love it…
kate

I became the owner of a 2004 MINI Cooper, not an S but I did option out with adding, CVT (this girl is too old (46)& has no time to put life aside to practice a standard on our hills), the super sports suspension, chrome side mirriors, rally brake and gas pedals plus foot rest, 3 spoke steeringwheel, chrome gas cap, sunroof, cold package (the seat warmers are the BEST.. do not know how I lasted 19 years in an Audi Coupe GT w/out them!) I became an owner of SYDNEY on 1/3/2004 and he now has 3500 plus miles on him. I do not think I have ever had as much fun driving a car. I fel in love with the vintage Minis at Laguna Seca and when I saw the MINI, I waited for my 3 spoke wheel and ordered. I flash or wave at any other MINI on the road, and, yes, I am passionate about my car. Yes, the interior can get scratched by a sons hockey stick if one is not careful, but the scratch will rub out with compound and we need to be gentle with SYD. For the money and the ambiance, there is not another car like SYD on the market!

I am a very happy motorer!

Kate
http://users.adelphia.net/~rocketboy/index.html Rocketboy

I couldn't be happier with my '02 MCS… But it seems to me that the problems that the MINI has are very hit and miss. Some MINIs are cursed with a constantly cracking windscreen, and some (like mine) are doing just fine. Some MCS owners suffer from the dreaded Yo-Yo / Stumble problem. Not only have I never expierenced it, but nobody in my MINI club has ever mentioned that problem. And I drive my MINI ever day, rain or shine, summer sun or winter storm.
http://users.adelphia.net/~rocketboy/index.html Rocketboy

And ugg, a Ford Focus as the most fun to drive car? I think we can throw out any MINI related results from this survey.. (sorry for the double post again.. I gotta start reading the articles and not just the comments before I post…)
Greg Foor

CR's top picks are only chosen from their “recommended” models. As a car with, more than average, owner reported problems the percieved reliability will be less than average. The original report on the MINI Cooper in Oct.2002, found the MINI “very agile and fun to drive”. Reliability was the only question-mark that kept it from being recommended. They rated the car as VG, average or better reliability would have made it excellant and put it on top of the “Fun to Drive” heap. The problems I've had with my MINI occurred during the first 3500 miles, 1 year 12000 miles ago. KOW.Do I notice little things that could be construed as annoyances rather than reliabilty issues? Yes. But then again when you're driving home from the dealer that's 50 miles away after service on a EML issue and you're 5 miles from home and your car goes into “limp mode” that is a reliabilty issue. I can't wait for my lease to be up in Nov. '05. I WANT A CABRIO. Just my nickel, you can keep the change.
Brian

We've put > 7K miles on our '04 MCS since November and, although I'm admittedly OC/anal about cars, we've not had so much as a squeak (touch wood). I feel for MINI owners that are suffering with surge/yo-yo problems and other gremlins, but–if our experience is any indication–it seems that build quality has improved.
http://revorg.org/mini.html Scott

USA Today reporting on Consumer Reports! Talk about a credibility gap! 'Nuf said.
R

Replaced drivers seat ( had to make 5 trips to dealer for this to happen!), launch stumble, bad overflow tank twice, new windscreen, creaking rear hatch, creaking moonroof, computer glitches, ie; windows opening and closing in the rain, shuts off the DSC, stops air conditioning from working, bad passenger side window motor, dash rattle, shoulder belt rattle left and right, replaced ECU, replaced rear shock mounting bolts, bad sun visor drivers side, borken rear brake caliper twice, replaced seat belt tensioner, rubber that seals hood scoop rotted & replaced, loose lower grill, replaced window washer motor and last, but not least, it is using a quart of oil every 2000 miles.

Other than that stuff the car has had no problems.

My MCS' mileage is 28,000. The car is pretty good as of now, except for the upper windscreen moulding coming off yesterday, but what a hassle it has been.

My wife owns a '97 325i which is a quantum leap better than her '84 325i was so I'm hoping for the same with the Mini. She is thinking, maybe, A6 this time around though…………R
Brian

R–”I understand the car is new but 3 years into manufacturing and still this many problems.” What year is your MCS? Based on my experience–and from interactions with other '04 owners and based on the apparent decrease in F&F posts on MINI2–I'd say that MINI has recently made leaps and bounds in build quality.
R

Brian…….2002……..F&F ?…. …….don't get me wrong I love the car but I have very little tolerance for BS………….R
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabriel Bridger

Having had a 2004 MINI loaner recently I can attest to the improved build quality. While loaner had 30k less miles then my MINI, it just had a different, more tightly put together feel to it.
Brian

R–F&F= faults and fixes; the forum that details problems. We test drove an '02 MC and MCS shortly after our 'local' dealership openend and, although we were convinced that we had to have an MCS, we were equally convinced that we had to wait for MINI to get things sorted. The orchestra of squeaks and rattles on the 02' demos (with less than 1K miles!) gave me pause: I knew in my heart that even these admittedly minor faults would drive me crazy. We went for test drives on two consecutive occasions; each time witnessing obvious improvements in initial build quality. Only on the third test drive (almost two years after our original test drive) were we sufficiently confident to order. I can tell you that it was really hard to wait, but, for me, it was well worth it. If it's really driving you crazy, maybe you should give serious consideration to trading in for a newer build?
http://www.hmms.org Faith

R with all the problems you've described with your MINI, it sounds to me like it's a lemon. Does your state have a lemon law?

We've had a few problems (the common ones, but no biggies) on our Feb '03 MCS, but we love our MINI! We plan to keep this forever and get a Cabrio in a couple years. :)

It's sad to think that trying to get our MINIs just right by reporting the problems may potentially be hurting the value (or at least perception) of them.
R

I am going to put it [2002 MCS] on one of the E sellers. I plan on getting a newer version.

The car is pretty OK now but I always wanted a yellow/blk MCS.

Yes my state has a lemon law but it would not cover what has been wrong…….R
Ryan

R-

I can sympathize with you on your Mini woes. In my first year of ownership (03MC, 10/02 build) my cooper was in the shop 41 days. While the biggest issues have been the transmission, rack-n-pinion, power steering pump, blower fan (replaced twice), and other issues very similar to yours, I still look out my window and love that car. I am just a few weeks (hopefully) away from getting compensation/buyback on my Mini. Been through the lemon process already and waiting to hear the offer. Hopefully I don't have to file litigation, but we'll see. I love the Mini, but build quality has to improve overall. Some Minis are built well, some aren't. The goal is to have all built well. I don't buy the comment that Mini's reliability is down, because it's owners are more “passionate”. Give me a break. If I bought a brand new F-150 and I had a rattle on my dash, or the blower fan was squealing, you better believe I would be a headache to my Ford dealership's service department. Who is going to buy a new car and ignore the problems in thier vehicle?

I think Mini has a good thing here, and hopefully when the next platform is released it will be as reliable as the 3-series, which by the way is my next purchase.
Timothy Sipples

I have a 2002 Cooper CVT built in March — probably two weeks into U.S. production. It has been extremely reliable. I got the software update, but mine was pretty good to begin with. The right side height adjuster for the shoulder belt wouldn't lock in the top position, but that was fixed easily. The hatch area cover warped, but I think it's too snug anyway and was tempted to make a design modification with an Exacto knife. (The dealer insisted on replacing it, though, the moment I mentioned it.) I had the paint rub under the bonnet latch, but I didn't consider that a big deal.

That's all I remember. It just works. I think it was built on a Wednesday.
R

Ryan,

Wow, your woes with your Mini made mine seem silly in comparison.

I have heard nothing good about CA's lemon law. Maybe Ahnold the Govenator can make it betta! What state do you live in?…R
http://www.michiganmini.com Ryan

I live in Michigan. Few people understand the Lemon law enough to know the pain it takes to go through. I've been dealing with this process since October 03 and it could go for another year if we have to take Mini to court. Hopefully it won't go that far and I doubt that it will. But, there are many loopholes in the lemon law and the manufacturers know how to play them well.
http://revorg.org/mini.html Scott

I must have good karma. My MCS is now one year old, and I have had zero problems. Absolutely none. Everything works, nothing rattles, no drivability issues, nothing. I am perfectly happy with it, you couldn't pry it from my cold dead hands. The only negative thing I could say about the car is that the speed limits in my state don't let me fully enjoy the car's capability!

Recently, some twit in a Focus rear-ended me (she had to be quite persistant to do so, too). Since I have had good luck with a local body shop, I wanted to have them do the work. They reported that they had no problem getting a replacement rear bumper from my dealer, and they guessed that the dealer had ample stock on hand. This mirrors the good treatment that I received when I bought the car a year ago.

I must have good karma.
Lucas

I had an '02 MC CVT, which had the transmission replaced 4 times. Once because the car would start jerking when I come to a full stop. Second, the car shook like earthquake when I make a sharp left turn at low speed. Third, the transmission would not engage from stop until rev up to 2k rpm. Forth time, the mysterious jerking problem returned.

Finally I sold the car back to the dealer (don't think under lemon law), where they promptly made $3000 by selling it two days later (go figure) to a new buyer.

Got my '04 MC last december. Already had several trips to the dealer already.

First was the rear hatch light keeps on (happened at night of delivery). The rear hatch doesn't appear to fit completely to the opening — so it sticks out ever so slightly. They made adjustments to the latch to compensate.

Then two or three weeks later, Service Engine Soon light came on, which was due to a faulty thermostat.

Then came the infamous rear hatch rattle — which the dealer fixed only with electrical tape.

There is another rattle in the dash, which dealer swears cannot be duplicated, yet I hear it every day I drive.

Better quality in '04 models? Think again.
Mike

“03 Mcs, Not much problems, had Yo-yo got fixed, had driver window problems- it would go up before I closed the door so I would have to get in and lower the window to shut the door. maby a few times a week. Then it started where I would open the door the the window would go all the way down! So I took it in and they replaced all the electronics and motors in the window and no problems since. But drivers side door makes noise now all the time. O and I have 3 large rock chips on my windsheald, What is the deal? my old car I had for 5 years and never a rock chip. 8500 miles “03 MCS
MiniCooperJD

I guess my problems are pretty trivial in comparison. The thing that I keep coming back to is this: American cars / Korean cars, ect do not have the passionate following that many Euro brands and Mini's have. Therefore, we do not read about the multitude of problems that they have with their cars. NOW… if the Mini was built like a Honda or Toyota would we be as passoionate about them?
Should_I_buy_it

I'm in love with this car and am within weeks of ordering a brand new one. I need someone to tell me: “no way; don't do it- it's not worth it.” Seems like a roll of the dice as to whether you have problems or not. My dealer says he's only had 3 folks come in with rattles and they've fixed it immediately no problem. I take that with a grain of salt. Help me someone!
http://www.motoringfile.com/ Gabriel Bridger

As someone who is an auto perfectionist I can tell you it's completely worth it. Sure I've had a couple rattles but I've been happy to take it to the dealer and get them fixed. It's strange – if it was with another car maybe I'd worry more about them or get upset when there's a little issue. But with the MINI I just get it fixed and motoring on happy as before.
http://www.autodiagnostics.info Phil Matthews

I’m currently loading an on line database for European vehicles. It’s mainly an information site for dealers and small independants who need fault and fix data, cam belt data, diagnostic socket locations and so on.

The site is expected to be completed by June 2005, input at the moment is currently 2-3 hundred records a week. On completion this site should carry 4-5 thousand records. Upon completion clients will be expected to subscribe (this figure has not yet been set) and monthly updates/additions will be added as an ongoing project.
http://www.autodiagnostics.info/ On Line Database for Faults and Fixes

Sorry i forgot to put the link in my write up for the database faults and fixes.

Click Here to view the site
Cheryl

I’ve had my 2005 MCS with CVT for one month. It has been in the shop twice for stalling while I was driving — dangerous. They tell me that it’s the computer. The computer has been sent to New Jersey to be reprogrammed. My car has been in the shop over a week. Unacceptable. Can anyone shed any light on this problem? The engine revs but no movement from the car. The Service engine light comes on. I turn the car off and back on and the car moves. Help!
Rachael Franklin

I have a 2004 Mini Cooper–BRG with tan leather interior and all the packages. Overall, I am very pleased with this car and have had only a few (minor) problems that were solved very quickly by the dealer.

I have not had any of the windscreen, moulding problems, rattling, or stalling problems as listed above. In fact, once I get inside the cars and the windows push up to form a perfect seal, it feels I am hermetically sealed inside, with no wind or rattling sounds at all. Good thing the car has fresh air intake with a great air filter system so we can breathe!

However, I once had a window problem where the window did not automatically slide down to allow the door to close. I solved this by rolling down the window, shutting the door, and then driving it to the dealer. I could have saved a trip to the dealer by simply calling. The guy at the dealer reset my computer with by toggling the window button in a certain way (I think it was down, down, up, down, down, up, down–but don’t try this at home, you might screw something up!!)–voila, problem solved.

I also had a run-flat tire go flat, and the entire tire had to be replaced (no cost to me).

I also had a (fan?) belt squealing and had to take it in–the dealer replaced it. Their explanation was the seawater from shipping the car over the ocean caused the belt to dry out and become brittle. Didn’t make me feel very good to know my car was exposed to corrosive sea water–if the salty sea air ate away my fan belt, what else did it eat away??

Overall, all of these problems were solved quickly and without incident. The warranty and free maintenance has made owning this car worry-free.

I got the car in June 2004. Have about 16,500 miles on it. How does this rate for average mileage? Is that high, low or just about right?
Akhilesh

I have had the MCSa for the last 5 months. It has just under 3K miles on and it just got towed for the second time. Same problem the car goes from 60 to safe mode (EML light goes on) in the blink of an eye. I like driving the car, but I have owned some jalopies in my day and never had to get a car towed, let alone an new one that I paid 30K for. Somehow I don’t feel safe in the car any longer. Should I bite the bullet and trade it in. If I lose less than 5K it may be worth it. For those of you who had similar problems with this mysterious EML-safe mode issue, was it ever resolved? Also I am only getting about 17-19 miles per gallon. Is that related to an underlying electrical problem? Help

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