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AutoWeek.nl (a dutch publication) has the scoop on an all-wheel drive MINI that Getrag (the company the supplies manual transmissions for MINI) has developed for future study. While the prototype was created solely by Getrag, execs at BMW appear to be following development closely. Here's an excerpt from the article (loosely translated from Dutch)
The power of the all-wheel drive MINI is not divided evenly over all wheels. Most of the power is sent initially to the rear wheels. However once the system senses a loss of traction, the power is distrubted more evenly to the front wheels . On the test track the all-wheel drive MINI appeared 10 per cent faster than the standard front wheel drive car.
When we can expect an all-wheel drive MINI in showrooms is yet unclear. BMW development leader Burkhard Goschel has ridden already in the prototype and, according to Getrag, was “impressed”.
You can read the entire article here – in Dutch of course!
<p>AWD…Oh my! I'll take out the trash, clean my room, even put the toilet seat down…anything to get this car!!!</p>
<p>hmmmm an all wheel drive 2 seater MINI with a retractable hardtop…. James, I'd even clean your room!! :D</p>
<p>Hmmm… If they can keep the weight down, this could be interesting.</p>
<p>My next MINI!
If it comes true.</p>
<p>I would most likely trade in my 05 ;)</p>
<p>I was wondering when we would see something like this. Very tempting, I must say. On the track, I would say this is the ultimate if they can keep it light enough. I wonder how well this would transfer to a road car for everyday use? It looks fairly stealthy, tho – and more like a street car than a racer.
Getrag is a very careful outfit, and I imagine the finshed product will be hard to beat. Hmmm.</p>
<pre><code> BCNU,
Rob in Dago
</code></pre>
<p>Three door all wheel drive hatches are the bomb!</p>
<p>Wow, that's totally awesome. As for 'hard to beat' all wheel drive, I dunno.. The Haldex quattro is probably gonna be king for quite a while.</p>
<p>I took the liberty of translating the rest of the article, so here's the first part that wasn't included above:</p>
<p>“In Germany there's heavy testing with a MINI with all-wheel-drive. It could make the ride-quality of the MINI even more enticing. The BMW bosses are reasonably enthusiastic.</p>
<p>The all-wheel-drive system from MINI is being developed by Getrag, a company that first-and-foremost has gained fame as producer of gearboxes. The daughter-company Drivline Systems is busy testing a MINI Cooper S with 4×4.”</p>
<p>This is where the quote by MotoringFile starts, and continues to the end of the article. Enjoy. :)</p>
<p>BUILD IT! that way i can run rally races and be on equal footing with the scubbies and mitsu's</p>
<p>Can you say “WRC”? I knew you could!</p>
<p>Cool! A 250HP AWD Cooper in 2008 sounds like a plan. The only downer is this thing will most likely sell for around $30,000</p>
<p>I would ditch my '03 MCS in a heartbeat for an AWD MCS. If I read the article right, it would be mainly a RWD car with traction to the front as needed. Isn't that “un-Mini”?</p>
<p>WRC, Fat Chance.</p>
<p>The mini is still to short to qualify. They'd need to extend the chassis.</p>
<p>JY, “un-MINI” or not, this is standard practice on lots of AWD systems, such as the Haldex quattro system used on the Audi TT and the VW R32. This is not 'true quattro' in that it only provides power to the front wheels when traction loss is detected, whereas their Torsen quattro, used in most other Audis, is a full-time AWD. This is why I objected to the possibility of Getrag's AWD being 'hard to beat', as many AWD purists would argue that a 'part-time AWD' system like this is lacking to some degree. Nonetheless, I think it's really, really cool, and would love to see an AWD MINI. I <em>love</em> my 05 MCS to death, but coming from an A4, the only thing I have found lacking (although in no way a disappointment) is the difference in traction.</p>
<p>Mike – I'm under the impression that some power is in the front wheels at all times but there's a strong rear bias typically.</p>
<p>Equipped with a JCW-spec power plant as standard factory-fit, I would see this to be a tasty package. I would be more than willing to buy one if the base price was kept at or under $40,000 Canadian (about $32,000 US).</p>
<p>STI $32,295 US
EVO $29,999 US
R32 $29,100 US</p>
<p>Tough company at $32k. </p>
<p>I think an AWD S with Works-level power should be able to (and would have to) come in at $27-28k before options. But the market will likely look quite different if and when it appears.</p>
<p>Tough company if your only concern is power, but the MINI is much more than any of those cars in other ways.</p>
<p>True. It's much cuter.</p>
<p>My only complaint of my '05 MCSCabrio is occasional loss of traction … I would trade mine in a heartbeat for one with AWD. Bring it on!</p>
<p>Yeah Garrett I'm with you, it's the only thing I'm not used to about this car, but it's funny, coming from an AWD car, this car is still oodles more fun. :)</p>
<p>STi & EVO are closer to track cars than R32 is from a suspension standpoint & engine. Interior of the R32 is superior to those & any stock MINI currently offered. It would indeed be interesting to see if they could offer an AWD JCW MCS at this price point.</p>
<p>The longer 5-door hatchback version with AWD could must likely meet specs for the WRC.</p>
<p>Mike, I think one of the reasons the Mini feels so fun is that it's <em>relatively</em> light. (OK, so it also has a wickedly quick steering ratio, hyper-rigid body and aggressively tuned suspension, all of which don't hurt it any in the fun department…) </p>
<p>But the point is that the Mini has a ~500-700lb advantage on even the lightest AWD cars. (Look at the specs on the R32.) It's going to be tough to add AWD to the Mini without porking it up substantially. And a fat Mini will not be a fun Mini, imho, regardless of how many wheels are powered.</p>
<p>Dan I disagree that the interior of the R32 is superior to the MINI. You can get so many more luxury options on a MINI than you can on an R32, for one thing, and personally I just prefer the look and feel of the MINI interior over the R32. The R32 just feels like they took a plain jane Golf and tried to make it racy. Now the Golf's interior is nice but it's definitely not super-luxurious.</p>
<p>scooblymonchee – good point. That would be my first concern as well.</p>
<p>Totally agree on the weight issue. How much more weight could it possibly add? Even with a 200-300lb increase, the roughly 2900lb AWD Mini still wouldn't come close to the R32's curb weight of 3400lbs.</p>
<p>Any ideas on how heavy it might be?</p>
<p>Mike, before I owned my '02 Cooper, I had a '99 GTI and had always felt it was superior in interior build quality. After sitting in the current R32, I was even more impressed by what VW had done. The seats are fantastic, that was what really caught me. Granted, I think the MINI's interior wins in the looks department not only against the R32, but also the STi & EVO.</p>
<p>Well Dan, to each his own. :)</p>
<p>Ok I'm ending this debate of the R32 right now. I drive an R32 as much as my MIni S and the R32 is <strong>NOT</strong> a “riced” up version of the golf. My girlfriend and I owned a 1.8T and traded it in a heartbeat for the R32 after a test drive. Don't take looks and impressions as the facts! Drive the two before saying anything! The regular golf and the R are totally different cars. The interiors comparing it to a Mini is nothing to laugh at, take a feel next time of that R32 steering wheel!! It blows the doors off some aftermarket ones, seriously the steering wheel, shifter and clutch are awesome. The clutch is hydraulic, like butter, the thing feels great in slow traffic as well as super responsive at all other times. The seats are like JCW seats, very supportive, airbags in the seat, oh did I mention heated as well! The R has girth no doubt, but it's well put together(Not Mexican or Brazilin built) and has a potent engine if you really wanted to mod it, take a look at the HPA R32, 3.2 seconds to 60!!!</p>
<p>Now speaking of a Mini AWD, WOW, now wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants!!! I would trade my 04 S in a heartbeat if they could put something together that would overcome the weight of the awd system and have a good 0 to 60 time. I agree that a WRC Mini would just be totally cool. </p>
<p>I believe I'm right by saying this but the FIA that runs WRC is changing the rules in a couple of years on the cars engines. No more turbo’s from what I remember from a few Speed channel WRC events past. No fireball throwing if I'm wrong just remember being surprised by the comments! </p>
<p>Anyway, Mini/BMW build a AWD MINI, you have no idea how many more people around the world would go crazy for one!!!</p>
<p>Damn, Paul, a little touchy? No one said the R32 was a riced up version of the regular GTI. I have nothing but respect for the R32 – great car and I considered buying one instead of my MINI. I also really loved the modding potential, as my last car was an A4 1.8t and I got very used to it being highly-modified. I have driven the R32, and the interior is not bad, but my opinion stands that the MINI has a nicer interior. Again, <em>just my opinion</em>, no one was bashing the R32 here. The interior is definitely nice, but it has too much of the regular Golf feel to me. I realize that the rest of the car is an entirely different beast.</p>
<p>I really hope this thread makes the rounds somewhere deep within the BMW/MINI technical departments.</p>
<p>scooby –</p>
<p>I think the MINI feels light because of its handling characteristics, not because of the curb weight. 2600 lbs is a little portly for a car that size — compare at something like the MR-2. But if memory serves, the Quattro system on the A4 only adds about 150-200 lbs, so I don't see it dragging down the performance much, especially if they kicked up the HP and dropped the weight of their wheels.</p>
<p>Oh, and I have to say, having owned an A4 with Quattro before (and my wife owns one now), having an AWD MINI would just about be driving heaven. Talk about a canyon carver. Not to mention the safety benefits of AWD. I'm intrigued by the rear-wheel bias..sounds fun!</p>
<p>In case any BMW/Mini tech folks do read this, I'd like to suggest that they forget about the whole trendy AWD thing and go for a mid-engined, RWD Mini, a la the venerable Renault R5 Turbo.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0308scc_renault/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0308scc_renault/</a></p>
<p>OK, that's never going to happen but… wow, would that be cool.</p>
<p>Oh man I love the bare-bones 80's retro interior of that R5, especially the tach and speedo area…. but I digress…</p>
<p>If anyone wants to see how a MINI would deal with about 250 extra pounds of weight, I'd recommend test driving an MCS convertible. And that's not counting the fact that an AWD MINI would have that extra weight much lower to the ground compared to the convertible.</p>
<p>In this case I can beat the subaru 300 hp STI I'll make a split second decision change my 03 to AWD.</p>
<p>Hey Paul, I love the R32, no doubt about it, but its funny how my 215 horsepower s can blow the doors off one (that was proven friday night)</p>
<p>Hey Pete, did you read about the fact that I own a Mini S, Modded mind you. I know what the Mini S can do, you don't need to brag.</p>
<p>Was the R5 a souped up version of the Le Car or as we used to call it LeLunchBox?</p>
<p>I bought my daughter a Golf last year, Sorry but, what a piece of crap!</p>
<p><em>*</em>RB</p>
<p>Although I have no much use for an AWD MINI here in Florida I would only be interested in the car if the can keep both, price and weight down.</p>
<p>An ex-MINI Cooper S owner I personally know, recently bought a brand new VW R32 for around $25K (Dealer was desperate to move the metal as the R32's are not selling very well).</p>
<p>Very nice car in many respects but no matter how many horses (And cylinders you put under the hood) and how many wheels are driven, fact is, the R32 still looks and feels like your vanilla issue Golf/GTI.</p>
<p>I was surprised to find out how cramped the back seat of the R32 felt in comparison to the MINI considering that the Golf/R32 is a much bigger car.</p>
<p>The R32 is nice but I would never trade my MCS for one, it is just not the same….</p>
<p>Frank, like I said, drive the bare bone GTI then the R32 before telling me what think by being driven in one. My friend had been driven around in an R and had your same comments but he changed his mind after he drove the thing. </p>
<p>I have a mini S and an R, they are different cars. I drive the R as much as the S and some days one feels better then the other. I will say that with stability control on with both cars I can take some turns as much as 7-10mph faster in the R then the Mini. Again, I live with both cars and I'm not trying to pull anybody’s leg, just what I've experienced. </p>
<p>Bottom line still is an AWD Mini would be one of the coolest cars ever!!</p>
<p>The R32 is a car that pulls respectable acceleration and have zero doubts about the capabilities of this car as I had the opportunity to drive it and then ride as a passenger.</p>
<p>My friend was able to get a new one for $25K which is an excellent deal for a car that retails at $30K+.</p>
<p>If MINI was not around in the market, sure the R32 would have been a palatable choice, but to me this car still screams too much of Golf because after all its basic underpinnings are shared with its cheaper and less powerful brothers.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong Paul. I think the R32 is a screaming package and if you manage to get one for a substantial discount perhaps one of the best buys in the hot hatch market right now, but still the MINI with less power, FWD, etc seems to have a lot of tangibles and untangibles that the R32 simply can't deliver just because is not a MINI, and it is not an iconic cult car either.</p>
<p>The next generation Mark V Golf has been a sales flop in Europe and I wonder why VW continues to delay its US introduction. I suspect that some serious tweakings are underway.</p>
<p>VW will issue R series car until the end of the model production cycle (The R32 marks the end of the Mark IV platform), but VW says it will continue to develop more R series cars in the future.</p>
<p>AWD Mini: completely agree that would be sensational, <em>if they can keep the weight down</em>. One of the best qualities of the Mini now is its low mass. This is the main reason it handles and accelerates so well. Look at the Lotus Elise for another example.</p>
<p>A heavy Mini with AWD would be a different car altogether, and a real disappointment at that.</p>
<p>Anecdote (and just to brag): the other day someone on a Ducati 748 tried to blow everyone else's doors off on Rt 9W in New York State. Denied 🙂 I was very surprised and pleased that my '05 Cooper S stayed ahead of him. Of course, I don't know how hard he was trying….</p>
<p>Hey hey hey, how about we stop talking about that crappy volkswagen? after all, it's a golf/gti with a v6 awd. It's too expensive for what it offers, it weighs waay too much to keep up with me, its very underpowered for an awd and how small the car is, and my less powerful cooper s front driver can still blow the doors off it. Plus the mini looks better, is more comfortable, looks awesome with stripes and is just better. VW just tries too hard to compete. maybe they should redesign the R32 and have it make like something besides the golf. (piece of crap) ill race anybody on the street that has one, and ill be glad to blow the doors, hatch, and bonnet, along with the mirrors and its antenna off the little german rice burner. And plus, the exhaust just sounds too fart-cannon ish for me. Ill stick with the MINI S any day of the week.</p>
<p>I wonder what the difference in track times would be between the 4-wheel drive mini and one equiped with an LSD? Power is nothing without traction.</p>
<p>Wow……. P…e…t….e!! That so intelligent “and is just better”. I don't know what to say, I “better” just leave it at that…… </p>
<p>At least I know I can have decent conversation with Frank……</p>
<p>Honestly, what are people's issues with VW's here? The '99 GTI I owned before my '02 Cooper was of better build quality, especially inside. The MINI obviously handles better than my old GTI in almost any capacity…but the R32 is not your typical GTI. I know not all MINI owners share the view of VW's as being “German Rice Burners” in any case. Personally, I LIKE cars…lots of cars…and life is too short to hate.</p>
<p>…(peaking head in)… Okay fellas – lets keep it civil in here and remain on topic.</p>
<p>I just wanted to respond to Frank real quick. He said “…its basic underpinnings are shared with its cheaper and less powerful brothers.”</p>
<p>I have to disagree with you on the “basic underpinnings” comment. The only things that it shares with other golfs are trivial pieces (body, interior, etc.). The entire powertrain and suspension is from the Audi TT quattro.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'd LOVE to drive a Mini with AWD.</p>
<p>Paul, I have to apologize for saying anything about the R32. It was not meant as fuel for the bonehead-fire Pete started. :-/ I'll leave it at that.</p>
<p>obviously you MC/MCS owners feel somewhat threatened by the R32…Everyone will say what they want to convince themselves that their car is better….</p>
<p>Longtime Mini and VW enthusiast here. Had a 67 Austin Cooper Mini S Radford for awhile, and quite a stable of VWs ranging from several Jettas, Sciroccos, Corrados, and my current R32. </p>
<p>Gotta say, AWD Mini S would be pretty spiffy. It would definitely need to be JCW level on the power delivery… </p>
<p>As for the MCS/R32 comparison, I can only speak from my own personal experience: I lusted after the MCS for years, and I had a deposit on a 2004 MCS and was about to take delivery, when I happened to test drive the R32. Instantly changed my mind. Power delivery and road feel sold me on it. </p>
<p>Interior-wise, the MCS is a neo-classic. LOVE the MCS interior!!! Only thing I would change is to add some deeper bolstered Recaro seats. As for the R32, it's definitely Audi-level compared to run of the mill Golfs. Even the plastic is a different quality level, makes a regular Golf look like a Hyundai. Still, it's a Golf… not as original or striking of an interior as a 93 Corrado, but it holds its own. </p>
<p>Yes, curb weight is 3300lbs… but you'd never know it from the way it drives. If you haven't driven one, you're missing out… if you're in San Diego contact me and I'll give you a test run in it. To quote Ferris Bueller: “I love driving it; it is soooo choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.” </p>
<p>Back to topic… Getrag makes amazing gearboxes, and I'm sure their AWD setup would add new dimensions to the lateral grip… hope they build it!</p>
<p>Again… let's please keep this on topic and try to refrain from pointed personal comments.</p>
<p>Actually, the R32 is not 3300 lbs, believe it or not it's a whopping 3,409! My A4 was lighter than that.</p>
<p>Hey brendan, I'm Brendon and i agree with the ferris bueler comment. After driving both cars and a hand full of other cars all in all the R32 won in my book.
i do however love the dash on the mini, but then again i love my R32 dash as well as the rest of the interior. When an AWD mini hit's the street's i'll be at the dealer to test drive one, but i will never hand over my .:R keys for one. The potential of the R32 is too great. Not saying the Mini isn't either, but the VR6 powerplant has proven itself over and over again and has quite the aftermarket. </p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Weighed the R32 myself (have access to scales), 3304 on fumes, 3376 full. 3409 isn't wildly off mark but it's not accurate. I take it the A4 was not a Quattro. </p>
<p>It would be interesting to see how the F/R weight distribution changes with the AWD setup in the Mini… and if the change in spring rate that would need to accompany that would change the ride characteristics greatly?</p>
<p>Wow, I stand corrected. Weird that they would publish numbers worse than reality. The A4 was quattro, 2000 1.8t – 3241 lbs.</p>
<p>The 2000 A4 1.8t Quattro also only had 160hp. The way I see the R32 is, I got an Audi TT 3.2 with a Golf body, for a lot less money.</p>
<p>Actually Frank it was only 150hp. 2001 they bumped it to 170 (actually 180, but they called it 170 because they didn't want to get too close to the 190hp 2.8 – it was the same engine VW was called 180hp though), but still pitiful for the weight, compared to lots of cars today. The nice thing is how easy it was to get to 270hp. 🙂 I agree about the R32, it's a nice-ass TT 3.2 for less money, and there are some absolutely outstanding engine kits for it. :)</p>
<p>Wow, there are some seriously delusional people here. I like cars and, thought never been a big fan of the mini, will respect it for what it is.</p>
<p>But those that think that a Cooper S will hold anything against the R32 have been smokin' something.</p>
<p>From Car and Drivers original test of the S:</p>
<p>“Sixty mph is in your face at 7.0 seconds-one second quicker than a Civic Si. The quarter-mile is history in 15.5 seconds at 90 mph-0.2 second and 4 mph behind a VW GTI 1.8T. The 128-mph top speed is seven shy of a Ford SVT Focus's. “</p>
<p>And then the numbers for the R32:</p>
<p>“and the R32 takes that title in this train. Spurred by a 240-hp, 3.2-liter naturally aspirated V-6, the R32 is good for 0 to 60 in 6.0 and the quarter in 14.3.”</p>
<p>Thats a full second to sixty and a full second over the 1/4. I also know people that with some time in the car are taking bone stock Rs under 14 in the 1/4.</p>
<p>On top of that, when moving the VR6 pulls like mad. Also from C&D:</p>
<p>“Even in top gear, the R32 pulls like an Iditarod pack of huskies, delivering a 30-to-50-mph time of 8.4 seconds. The Evo manages that ramble in 11.7, the STi in 10.9.”</p>
<p>Thats over TWO full seconds faster than an STI, and I dont think anyone would say that their Mini was faster than one of those.</p>
<p>And if someone wants to argue handling, well, C&D manages .85 g with the MCS on a skid pad, while they had this to say about the R:</p>
<p>“The R32 has the natural ability to eat up quick lateral transitions and, surprisingly, coarse terrain. Despite the low-profile rubber, the R32 serves a pliant ride that is firm but far from jarring. Circling the skidpad, the car holds on for 0.89 g,”</p>
<p>So, while the Mini is a great little car and an AWD one would be seriously excellent, I dont think the few delusional folks on here can argue at all their MCS will take the R32, or that its too heavy to handle well.</p>
<p>Sorry to get OT, but I like all kinds of cars and there is nothing more that I hate than cars (or anything else for that matter) represented falsely.</p>
<p>I agree, Jim. I love both cars, but the R32 is clearly the faster beast in stock form. The other thing to consider is that the R32 has a 0-60 killing gear ratio, so if the gears were made to impress people with numbers, it would look even faster on paper.</p>
<p>Luckily with a chip (or reflash) to bump the rev-limiter a touch the R32 can get to over 60 in 2nd gear.</p>
<p>Gabe I'm sorry I overstayed on the R32 topic. </p>
<p>It would still be cool to see the comments get over 100!!!</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>All this bs about the R32 “basic underpinnings are shared with its cheaper and less powerful brothers” What rambling BS! An M3 BMW shares its basic underpinnings with a 316i. An E55 AMG Merc shares its basic underpinnings with a 320E. A Boxster S shares its basic underpinnings with the base car, not to mention 75% of its parts with the 911. A Mini Cooper S shares its basic underpinnings with its baby brother FFS! If your going to comment then make it sensible & valid, and try to do some research first and actually know what your commenting on!</p>
<p>The R32 is greater that the sum of its parts. It is a fantastic car, that in many ways is every bit the equal of any car i have owned, and considering i have owned several Porsches and BMWs that puts it comfortably ahead of most cars. Yes even your beloved Mini.</p>
<p>Wow Mike, it seems you are already pretty overloaded on caffeine so early, aren't you?</p>
<p>Relax friend. The R32 no matter how many horses and wheels it drives it will always look and feel to an extent like a VW Golf and that's not really a bad thing considering that a $16K Golf GL looks like a luxury car compared to anything in its immediate price range.</p>
<p>So if the R32 is not based on the Golf and the Mitsubishi EVO is not based on the Lancer, so what are these 2 samples based on? Lamborghinis? Ferraris?</p>
<p>“Mini Cooper S shares its basic underpinnings with its baby brother FFS!”</p>
<p>What is FFS?</p>
<p>FFS = For F*#ks Sake. Bit like LOL = Laugh Out Loud or LMAO :)</p>
<p>No not overboard on caffeine, just sick and tired of armchair warriors, 99% of whom have never even driven the cars they so readily comment on. Many of the above comments are pure rubbish, and are purely to justify the purchase of a particular vehicle rather than factual and worthy information.</p>
<p>Hi sorry to butt in on this.I cannot beleive that your are arguing over two totally different types of cars,you might as well compare the Golf with any other run of the mill lumps of Metal.The MINI is in a class of its own.Its has so many combinations which makes it so unique.And as some of you are talking about performance and handling then you should drive the works.The car is value for money and a solid good alrounder.I may be a touch biased as I have sold these since launch but those who have experienced the smile factor when driving this piece of gold will know exactly where im coming from.What is a Golf by the way?( A game not a car )</p>
<p>Im not even going to bother trying to have a balanced conversation with a Mini salesman. I shall simply point to “EVO Magazines UK” hot hatch mega test which they conducted in 2003. In that test they had, MINI COOPER S Hartage, Subaru WRX, Ford Focus RS, Alfa 146GTA, Seat Leon Turbo, Audi S3, and yes you guessed it VW Golf R32. The R32 was and is the clear winner of the test. If u havent read it get the magazine and have a good read. The MCS Hartage, was less than impressive and was 3 seconds a lap slower than the R32 around the race track they used to conduct the track segment of the test.</p>
<p>Yes i have driven the MCS. Yes it is a great little car, no question. On a good day on the right road it can hold its own with many more hi-po cars. But when push comes to shove, the R32 (once the crappy USA tune suspension is replaced with the Euro spec suspension) quite simply is the better all round car. Either way, either one u purchased, your having fun. </p>
<p>Yes Golf is a game, the same way Shamall is a hot Sahara
wind, Mustang is a type of horse, Jaguar is a big cat, Diablo means devil, and Mini means Something that is distinctively smaller than other members of its type or class. Except that is no longer true in that case of the MCS is it? Your point is?</p>
<p><strong>All COMMENTS THAT ARE OFF TOPIC WILL BE DELETED</strong></p>
<p>This article is about an awd MINI. I can see no reason that anyone on here should feel the need to trash any car. </p>
<p>And let me go on record and say that I personally think the VW R32 is a fantastic car (I've driven it) and for all you who have popped on here from Vortex… don't think this is some place where we trash cars other than MINIs. Many of us frequent visitors are in fact long time VW fans.</p>
<p>Put me down for an All-Wheel drive Mini what a fantastic idea. All it needs is more ps and to keep an eye on it's wieght.
I want one……………..</p>
<p>Thanks for stepping in Gabe. I agree with an earlier post that there is too little time to hate any car. Each is an individual. I love my 04 MCS and have put nearly 7K miles on it since July 1, when I picked it up. I always thought it would benefit from AWD, but we'll have to see what happens. Hopefully by the time the AWD does rear its head, I'll be able to afford a slicker whip. I already have my MINI. Cheers on a great place to read/talk shop.</p>
<p>When I drove the original MCS I thought the gearing was too long – after driving the 05 I can see why – the car is traction limited, hence the LSD option and autocar's criticism that the MCS either understeers on power or oversteers if you back off.</p>
<p>(This is why I prefer the MC w/o sport+ suspension in a vacumn – for its feel not when racing a MCS or something else). </p>
<p>An AWD MINI would go against the heritage of the car but with power levels breaking 200 and climbing they'd better do something. Having spent the past week swapping seats in a new Legacy GT, a 330Xi and a new TL and then returning to my 95 m3 and 00 M5 I'm beginning to think rear-biased AWD is far more benefit than the purist in me was originally willing to admit.</p>
<p>Tom Salkowsky once asked a group of us if future M cars should have AWD – I alone tought the answer depended on the power/weight. They instead developed the M variable diff but even that has its limits… </p>
<p>200 horsepower was once considered the reasonable limit for FWD before you have to make the wheels too wide for good steering feel – the MINI bends the laws of physics but it doesn't break them. I'll take AWD and 175mm wide tires over FWD and 205s any day (you can make up for a lot of weight with gearing and the weight is added low in the chassis – better than a sunfoof or the high mounted xenons, supercharger, adn intercooler!) besides, an AWD version would have 'better' weight distribution… : )</p>
<p>as for the above posts – it would be great if the site would just delete any post that said 'i've ridden in' or 'my friend has a', wouldn't it? Cheers to those who hold their tongues unlesss they've driven something – we're all the better for your self control.</p>
<p>Acording to some German Car magazines the additional weight is 75kg</p>
<p>Oh please ! Oh please build this car! I would place a downpayment today to reserve my spot!</p>
<p>Here is the German review, they speak of an extra 80 kg but equally fast (on dry tarmac) as the stock MCS because of the improved grip:
<a href="http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=7328" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=7328</a></p>
<p>I have a '03 S, modded some. After i test drove the R32, my brother bought it for $26,000. After driving both, i wil say that the R will pull away from the S at first,(AWD does help) but the MINI is still king of the corners. the only way that the R32 can make it through the twisties is the AWD. The chassis was not set up as sporty as the mini, more body roll, flex, you get the feeling that you are just getting drug through the turns. all that weight shure does not help! and that split sec. When you dive in the turn and the power goes from the front to allwheels the car seemed to “lose balance: or “pause” to me.I would have to say that R32 is more “luxorious” that the MINI. the interior realy is not that much different then a reg. golf,but those konig seats are wicked comfortable!</p>
<p>Nice prices in the US. Here in Sweden a S with aero-kit and some other things costed me 35.000$
A STI costs 53.000$ nice eh? :)</p>
<p>75 or 80kg+ Can you say WOW!</p>
<p>My 03 MCS is very quick, and the corners are fun. But I'd take the rear wheel biased 'Twinster' in a heartbeat. Lighten up the wheels/tyres, add more horsepower & What a car!</p>
<p>The Getrag 4×4 Mini was already in this country…when SAE had a 4WD seminar in the fall. </p>
<p>I don't have any driving impressions, but as suggested earlier, it was a “demonstration project” whereby Getrag could demonstrate their prowess, not something that MINI was actively pursuing.</p>
<p>More info about the US appearance:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sae.org/events/symposia/awd/symp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.sae.org/events/symposia/awd/symp</a><em>awd</em>highlights.htm</p>
<p>TO: anyone who questions the need for AWD as the S's hp number edges ever upward </p>
<p>SUBJ: CAR Dec. '04</p>
<p>“the 210hp Works will lay down black lines on the road for as long as you keep your foot planted… give the throttle a shove from low speeds and the front tyres can be persuaded to light up.”</p>
<p>Not very effective, but a great way to rid yourself of those ruinous run flats. </p>
<p>(Was this the real reason BMW used such long gearing to start with? They've always maintained the chassis should have more 'power' than the engine).</p>
<p>Does anyone know if the current Haldex systems use LSDs on the front or rear diffs? I know that the Audi's that are supposedly “true Quattro” are a bit of scam since they run open front and rear diffs. Only the center is a torsen and the brakes are used to control wheelspin between the left and right side.</p>
<p>The Haldex “Limited Slip Coupling” as it is called is used to transfer torque in a “hang on” system to the “axle” that is not normally driven (so far all systems have been primarily FWD cars with hang on rear drive). It has been used on VW/Audi, Volvo, and most lately Ford USA.</p>
<p>As far as I know none of the applications have a rear LSD (and certainly not a front LSD). I am 99% sure this information is correct from following the area of torque management closely, but I could have overlooked something.</p>
<p>There is definitely nothing about a rear differential LSD on haldex-traction.com</p>
<p>Well that really blows if they're using open front and rear diffs. There's really not that much point in having a center LSD without LSDs at the axles. I know that the touring Audis used Torsens at all three locations. You wouldn't want to drive on the street with that setup since the steering would push too much, but you could easily have a Torsen center and rear with a viscous front.</p>
<p>Shame on Audi/VW for trying to pass this junk off as AWD.</p>
<p>I was fortunate to own one of the very first Cooper S Works cars for a year back in 2003. It was a great car, and I had some great drives in it. I have to say though, having driven an R32, the step up was significant. The V6 engine, had lots of charisma and a great soundtrack. As for the handling, I always thought the MCS chassis on 17″ multispokes felt somewhat overdamped and inert. The R32 really stood out to me as being incredibly well sorted. Right from the off, the car felt beautifully balanced, with an incredibly adjustable chassis. Although the MCS Works is a great car, I could really appreciate the gains the R32 offered. As for the interior quality, although the MCS has a refreshingly different interior, the quality of the R32's especially the seats is certainly better. however, having sat in a Mk4 Golf on the weekend, I fear that this is all about to change!</p>
<p>Sorry I sat in a Mk 5 Golf last weekend. Cheap plastic overload!</p>
<p>I want an AWD mini!! I am in the market for a mini now..but I am thinking I should wait? Does anyone know when this will be available?</p>
<p>The evo 8 is a better alternative to the r32. Magazine testers can read all about it.</p>
<p>In a recent autocross, 4 our of 5 evos were 2 seconds faster almost all of the R32s. In fact, only one r32 was quicker then an H stock cooper. Just think if they added awd to the cooper/cooper s and gave it a little more motor. </p>
<p>thats ok, i’ll pass on an AWD mini, but, if it was RWD, that might be another story.</p>
<p>Are they serious about putting the awd mini on the market? On another note is what are the specifications, such as power to weight ratio and the added hp?</p>
<p>ala Mazda 323 GTX, probably the best AWD pocket rocket that has ever been, and well before it’s time.</p>
Nick: The regular golf mk4 is cheepo inside too only the gti and r32 are nice inside. I do agree with you on many points re the r32 vs the cooper. I have drivven both cars and regaurding the suspention issue if you loose the runflats on the cooper in favor of some real rubber like the GS-D3 goodyear the car comes alive and is much better than the R32 which uses the same tires. as for the seats the r32 has about the best factory seats of any car at nearly any price. they are recaros after all not vw peices. mini should follow their lead. looking to replace my coopers sport seats now. Before I bought my Cooper S I looked at both cars. I got the Cooper because I could not get an R32 the way I wanted it….NO sunroof, no heated seats, no auto climate controle…if you like this stuff good for you but i should be able to not have it if i dont want it. I just wanted the go-fast stuff no luxury (heavy)junk. that r32 is 800 pounds more than my cooper.
hmmmm…maybe those seats are konigs?????
Hey anyone think that the folks from BMW/Mini read any of this??? Seams like there is enough intrest here to justify a serious look into building an AWD Cooper.
AWD , I hope its soon ,that would be WONDERFULL
YES! I’ve been dreaming about this car since I first saw the mini. Can you say rally? How about off-road MINI? 🙂
I just don’t think it will happen. My ’06 MCS with JCW engin, suspension kit costed me USD$35k out the door. If they throw in the all wheel drive then expect another USD$ 2-3k on top of that. Almost USD$40k? It will be way too much $ for the buying public. With Subaru STi listing at USD$38k and 300 hp, a 215 hp MCS, even a “RALLY” MCS is only a fantasy. Heck, I have a Mini and I will still buy the cheaper Subaru with the bigger engine when it comes to all wheel drive.
If anything, BMW will built another model with different engine and add all wheel drive to compete directly with Subaru.
BUT, we can hope!
seen it on tv wow A FRIGGIN SWEET CAR HOPE IT COMES TOO CANADA I WONT BE GETTING ONE AS MY PARTIAL VISION KEEPS ME FROM GETTIN MY LICENSE BUT IF I Could id start saving all my spare change an work as many jobs too get it good job keep up the great work u guys do a huge fan from canada