Car & Driver Recap Its Longterm MCS

miniharryc Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Agreed. I found the article's complaints jarring, especially since Yates himself has a Silver MCS.

Had they replaced the runflats with regular tires, I think they'd have a different opinion, especially on Michigan's frost-heaved roads.

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W Weldin Oct 14th, 2004 Link

They are right about the MCS ride quality. Its terrible. My wife has an 03 MCS (May 03 build) with JCW kit and I've got an 05 MC. The MCS has a very harsh ride, especially with the 17″ tires. The 05 has a firm ride but is quite comfortable.

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Jon Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Yes, John Phillips is off his rocker. What the heck does Torpid even mean? Anyway, I found it interesting how the Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires they installed performed great in inclement winter weather, but so poorly on dry pavement. They basically said they're dangerous, and require double the steering effort to maneuver. Has anyone else experienced similar issues? GABE-perhaps you could do a thread about snow tires, as winter is approaching, and many of us new Mini owners will be considering snow tires very soon…

Thanks

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Wings Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I too read this article and was disappointed by the comments. Come on, this is a magazine that is supposed to appreciate cars that offer value and performance. If that's not a MINI I don't know what is!

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Tim - Storm180 Oct 14th, 2004 Link

The comments don't surprise me in the least coming from Car & Driver. That magazine has alwasy hated anything that didn't come from Detroit and made no bones about saying so. Because I couldn't get any impartial information, I stopped reading C&D years ago.

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NekoWoman Oct 14th, 2004 Link

He must be confusing torpid with torpedo! LOL

Main Entry: tor·pid Pronunciation: 'tor-p&d Function: adjective 1 a : having lost motion or the power of exertion or feeling : DORMANT, NUMB b : sluggish in functioning or acting 2 : lacking in energy or vigor : APATHETIC, DULL

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Matt Oct 14th, 2004 Link

torpid? mr. phillips must be driving 2 gears too high in traffic, bogging the MCS in the lower 1/3 of the tach. keep the car in the power band and you'll do just fine.

i drive in Chicago traffic regularly with my MCS, and anybody who knows me wouldn't describe the experience as “torpid.”

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Sean aka revwillie Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Somebody has a 'word a day' desk calendar!

Anyways, I test drove an '04 MC40 edition and later, an '05 cabrio. I was disappointed in the ride quality of the '04, but the '05 was much more comfortable. The exhaust sounds better, too. If an '03 had such a low cost of repairs, the '05s should be even better considering the numerous improvements in a 4th model year compared to a 2nd model year car.

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TJKonarski Oct 14th, 2004 Link

It's funny — When I click to read the entire article I first see a pic of their MINI running through a carwash. MINI makes it very clear on the owners manual CD-ROM that if you use a carwash, “…make sure it's brushless…” They also left the antenna on the car. MINI also asks that this be removed when entering a carwash. Perhaps this is a sign of the lack of care and abuse they're putting their MINI through. It's too bad, really.

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greg Oct 14th, 2004 Link

ya know, i wondered about the sunroof visor when I got my mini…..located in the baked pavement of MD…….I can honestly say, the car didnt get any hotter than my Honda CRV without a sunroof. C&D must have been guessing, and not actually testing. As for the torpid comment, ya, I bet this guy doesnt even know how to drive a stick.

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Bill Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Sunroof shades are available. See: http://www.stratmosphere.com/mini_interior.htm

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RB Oct 14th, 2004 Link

torpid

Tor”pid, n. [See Torpid, a.] [Slang, Oxford University, Eng.] 1. An inferior racing boat.

Entry:   torpid Function:   adjective

Definition:   lazy Synonyms:   apathetic, benumbed, comatose, dopey, dormant, drowsy, dull

This guys daily driver must be an Enzo or a McLaren F1 if he thinks the MCS is all of the above I'm amazed.

Maybe he needs some lessons on how to drive a 6 speed car?

I for one I love the mesh shade and I live in SoCal. I could imagine them offering something a little more protective as an option. The only time I had issues was when I picked up the car in Florida. With the humid weather and the heat it was a bit edgy as far as shade went.

I found the seats quite comfy on our trip form Florida to SoCal… 2792 miles.

Yes it's a severe ride but it is not much harser than my wife's new A4 with the Ultra Sport package. That is once I changed out the original rf tires to the Dunlops rfs I have now.

HEY JOHN, IT'S A SPORTS CAR!!!

TOPID, in traffic, that's a laff!

…RB

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GSKChicago Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Owner's Manual CD-ROM? I don't think I got one of those. :o(

So I guess that would be my only complaint about the MINI. I agree with everyone else (okay, I'm a lemming)… I think the car is far from torpid (I had to look it up too)… I rarely am needing my '05 MCS to have more power. Want is something different, as more power is always more fun. But need? No, not really. The only time I have ever mentioned needing more power is when I am out twistie hunting following my friend in his monsterous 427 Cobra Replica. But, most cars out there would be trailing him, so I don't feel bad.

I also don't think the ride is too harsh. It is exactly the ride we signed up for when we ordered/bought our MINI's. Wonder if C & D's MINI has the lumbar support or not, maybe that is their complaint about the seats. Are the seats the most comfortable they could be? No. Are they more than sufficient? Absolutely.

Okay… Back to work now. :o)

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RB Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Hey I wonder if this means he thinks the Corbra is a crappy car also? The seat are shitty the ride is horrid, the handling is very edgy.

Hey John Phillips there are many driving schools in your area that could teach you the proper gear selection. Also if you can't figure those nasty gears out the CVT is coming.

*RB

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Jerry Bradbury Oct 14th, 2004 Link

From the driver's side of Sad Arthur:

I guess the C&D staffers won't be buying a MINI any time soon. Good. MINI can hardly keep up with demand as it is. I hope they keep telling folks how bad it is. That way we keep away all but the serious afficionados and get a cult car to boot! It seems one C&D staffer even has doubts about his own sexulaity. Too bad, bud. You need to firm it up a little there.

I like Autoweek's reviews better. But AW's readership is a small fraction of C&D. Again good. It takes a certain type to like this car. You've gotta like small, tossable, firmly suspended sports cars to like the S.

I've heard people on these boards complain about the ride, the noise, the exhaust note, what have you. Those things are built into this little screamer. If someone doesn't like that, this is not the car for them. It has good resale value, though. They should sell it and get a Honda.

At first, I was amazed at the tales of folks who returned their cars to the dealerships complaining of a “popping” noise from the exhaust on liftoff (and appalled that the dealers were unable to explain it). Then I realized most MINI owners are too young to have owned or raced classic Brit cars, and so don't recognize the sound of unburned fuel igniting in a hot exhaust when you lift the throttle to prepare for turn in at a corner, a sound which had to be ENGINEERED INTO the new MINI because of the improvements in engine and exhaust mechanicals since back in the day.

But if you're coming to MINI out of a Toyota, the burbling exhaust sounds suspicious. It's a heritage thing, folks, strictly old school sports car. Here's what Autoweek has to say about it >

“We’d like a little more notice from the exhaust that the engine means business, but for now drivers will have to settle for an occasional muted “pop pop” from the tailpipe.”

And the whole article is here, just to give a point of view different from C&D.

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100842

Regards, Old School Sid (who makes no apologies for his opinions)

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Jon Oct 14th, 2004 Link

To Tim:

RE: Car and Driver being biased towards Detroit

I say you are 100% wrong. I read every Car and Driver cover-to-cover, and if anything, they're very much biased toward imports such as Honda, BMW (at least pre-Chris Bangle), etc.

By Car and Driver's measuring stick, many of Detroits' cars rarely do as well in comparison tests as other imports.

That is why a somewhat luke-warm reception for the fun-to-drive BMW-produced Mini is a bit disconcerting. I would've thought the Mini is just what the folks at Car and Driver would really love. It is an enthusiast's car…

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ChrisW Oct 14th, 2004 Link

To each his own, I suppose. Reviews are always subjective. But I do feel C&D is worthless to me as a car magazine and has been for a long, long time.

Automobile Magazine is about the only one that hits the right buttons for me anymore.

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JW Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Jon, you're absolutely right. Their latest 10 Best Cars list has eight imports and two from Detroit. The BMW 3-series has been on the list every year for over a decade.

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raven34 Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Geez…. I wish people would just shut the F*ck up when it comes to the MCS 'harsh ride' complaints.

I mean, if you want something that rides as smooth as a baby's butt then just go drive a japanese car for christ sake, and be done with it! German cars are know for having a stiffer (read “good road feedback”) ride.

…As far as the sunroof conplaint goes, I thing that guy should get a life. I bet he complains about the bathroom wallpaper in his free hotel room whenever he goes on press junkets.

• • michael

(edited by Gabe)

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GSKChicago Oct 14th, 2004 Link

raven34-

How do you really feel? Come on, don't hold back. :o)

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Bill Lawrence Oct 14th, 2004 Link

When I pick out magazines in the store to buy, I never end up getting C&D. It seems there are more articles about minivans and cars you see in rental fleets, rather than sports cars and exotics.

If I wanted to read about the best SUV, minivan and sedan to haul the kids in, I would read Consumer Reports.

When I spend my spare time reading about cars, why would I want to read about the best ride for taking the kids to practice?

Tell me about how fun the fun cars are. This is where Car and Driver always fails.

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David Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I thought the C/D review was mostly positive, maybe you have to read between the lines a bit. As for the Phillips comments, well he comes across a bit cranky at the best of times, witness his original Cooper S review in one of the back issues. As for the mag itself, it tends to have a “smart-aleck” tone that is off-putting. Road&Track is much the better magazine of the North American journals.

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Stephan McKeown Oct 14th, 2004 Link

The MINI is a high quality, well-built performance automobile. For many of us, it charms and seduces like no other car, whatever the price. The Oxford plant has labored long and hard to improve build quality, and each succeeding year has seen improved value and refinement. And, thanks to the genius of Frank Stephenson, the MINI is blessed with one of the most distinctive interior available today.

On the other hand, all cars, however good, can be improved. IMHO the most valid point the C&D recap raises is the poor quality of the MINI's seats. For a minority of drivers at least, the seats are an uncomfortable disappointment. Several threads on the boards and comments in magazines attest to this. Leaving aside the issue of the quality of the leather used, I personally find the seats too short and lacking in thigh support, and the adjustment and tilt levers cheap and not up to the quality of the rest of the interior.

This makes it doubly disappointing that MINI USA has prevented the JCW seats from being available here.

Stephan McKeown

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Gabe Oct 14th, 2004 Link

“To each his own, I suppose. Reviews are always subjective. But I do feel C&D is worthless to me as a car magazine and has been for a long, long time.”

“Automobile Magazine is about the only one that hits the right buttons for me anymore.” – ChrisW

That is exactly how I feel. The only two US car mags I get are Autoweek and Automobile.

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RB Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Micheal…

I agree with you …

*RB

(edited by Gabe)

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Rocketboy Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Don't like the sunroof cover, don't get one with a sunroof. Simple as that. And no s the ride is harsh (esp with larger rims). It's not a sign of a 'terrible' ride quality, it's designed like that. To say that the harshness of the ride is a measure of bad quality is a measure of bad journalism. And sluggish in traffic? That comment is so wrong, I can't even begin to figure out a response.

Erik…

(edited by Gabe)

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Josh Wardell Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I'll repost my comments that I responded on autoblog–they agreed with me:

You have to wonder about these reviewers. Where they expecting a Cavalier?

Of course it desires revs…how could this be negative?? If you're afraid of your car accelerating, maybe it's time to shop for a nice Yugo. The MINI definitely likes to GO.

And both sunroofs DO have shades. Yes, they're mesh. Despite having black leatherette seats, I never found them to be hot after sitting in the sun. Use that handy remote to open all windows and sunroof as you're walking up to the car and you won't even know it's been sitting there for 8 hours.

And gosh it's just terrible when sporty cars handle well and are overly stiff. Perhaps these reviewers would have been happier with a MINI One, not even available in the US as at least most of us prefer some horsepower.

Like it or not, did the poor MINI really deserve the slow torture that is the paintjob-marring auto car wash?

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michael Boice Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Auto Week and Automobile 'feel' independent.

Lets see, I was given a gift wrapped pink poka dot dress from a bunch of guy friends when I recieved my Mini. I have been asked by so many these past four weeks people, “what do you like about that car?” And lasy night, a 3 year old had the presence of mind to ask me, while standing next to his dad's 600AMG and 360 Modena, “why is your car so small?” It's just too bad we can't invite all these doubters to a track event…

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joe Oct 14th, 2004 Link

can anyone comment on the snow tires they mentioned, are they really dangerous?

i've never heard that from anyone

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Jon Oct 14th, 2004 Link

GABE-perhaps you could do a separate thread about snow tires, as winter is approaching, and many of us new Mini owners will be considering snow tires very soon. What's the best brand for the Mini? Bridgestone Blizzaks seemed to be panned by Car and Driver.

Any feedback?

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Gabe Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Snow tires = already covered last year :)

Snow Tire Buying Advice

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petsounds Oct 14th, 2004 Link

gabe – The mesh does provide protection from the inside getting too hot unless you're in an extreme climate zone, however it doesn't provide protection from sun rays. With the ozone layer getting thinner and thinner, we have to be a lot more observant of how much radiation from the sun we're getting. My wife's family has a history of suceptibility to skin damage and that's why I opted out of the sunroof..I like the open roof sometimes but there was no way to fully block the sun when she was riding. Well, that reason, and the slight performance gain from the weight savings.

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Jerry Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I would think it would be easy to replace the mesh with a more solid material if you wanted to.

Good news….The latest NASA observations show the Ozone hole is getting smaller….More Sunroofs for everyone!

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Christopher W Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I hate to bring this topic up again, but please, please, please people… don't refer to an MCS as a sports car. It isn't. It may be called a “sporty” car, but until it's a RWD, 2-seat, (reasonably) lightweight roadster (examples: Miata, MR2, most TVRs, Boxster) then it doesn't qualify as a sports car.

Don't get me wrong, it's a blast to drive and I think it has sporting pretentions, but it is emphatically NOT a sports car under the classic definition.

-CW

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RB Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Is J Phillips the PORTLY one? If yes that would explain a lot.

*RB

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TJKonarski Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I agree with comment posted by Christopher W. The car I drove before my MCS Convertible was a Honda S2000. I love them both, equally, but for different reasons. One of those reasons were that the S2000 was a real sports car…

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Jerry Bradbury Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Christopher W & TJKonarski:

If my JCW MCS can give “real sports cars” fits in the twisty bits of road or track what does that make it . . . a mutant vehicle?

I say sports car is as sports car does and screw your elitist definitions.

Respectfully, Siddhartha

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David K Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Sunroof

Michigan aint the end of the world. That mesh crap gets old in the heat of South Florida real quick. That is a valid complaint.

As far as the ride, I agree, it's stiff, but I don't mind it that much.

Jeez. You guys take all this stuff way too personal. It is an opinion. Why get upset about it. The car aint for everyone.

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Tim - Storm180 Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Jon: I will admit that C&D could have changed their (possibly perceived) bias towards domestic cars. I think I mentioned that I hadn't read it consistantly in quite some years – although I was REALLY tired earlier and might have missed actually typing that. :) But I've always found whenever I picked up an article that the Viper would outperform any other sports car, or the Neon would beat out any other compact, etc. One thing that I think all magazines neglect to mention is the uniqueness factor. You'll see a Viper on the road fairly frequently (given its price), but you'll almost never see a Lotus or Ferrari.

I would also say that the MINI is deffinitely a sports car. Not necessarily the same class as an MR2 (butt-ugly anyway), TRV, Miata or Boxster, but a sports car nonetheless. My previous car was a 2nd gen RX-7 and the MINI has almost the same pickup and will out handle it any day of the week and twice on Sundays. That to me makes it a sports car. Plus the fact that you can look down and not realize that you're doing triple digit speeds. :)

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GSKChicago Oct 14th, 2004 Link

I can say this much about if the MCS is a sports car or not… Talk to your auto insurance agent. If it was rated up by the company for the caritself (NOT YOUR DRIVING RECORD), then it is in a sports car category. If it was not rated up, then it is not in the sports car category.

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Christopher W Oct 14th, 2004 Link

Siddhartha, it's not elitism. It's a question of definitions.

When a term is used without regard to its core meaning it is devalued. One doesn't call Tang or Irn Bru “orange juice”, even though all three are orange, all three are sweet, and at least two of them have vitamin C.

A sports car is defined by the qualities I mentioned. I didn't make this up, and I have no real reason to defend the term other than the fact that it's essentially correct. The term came about to describe a subset of RWD roadsters that placed a premium on light weight and driving pleasure, and does not apply to premium FWD 4-seater hatches with relatively high feature and luxury counts.

Again, this isn't elitism. I've never owned a sports car, and I've no real fondness for many of them. A sports car need not be fast. It might be slower than even a MINI diesel. But it does tick all the boxes according to the correct definition. The fact that an MCS may run rings around a (insert true sports car name here) is inconsequential. A Ferrari 612 will run rings around the MCS in most measurable performance metrics, but it's no more a sports car than a MINI is. It's a GT. Likewise a Lexus SC430 satisfies the convertible and RWD elements of the sports car definition, but it lacks the chassis dynamics and light weight that typifies the breed.

As for the insurance argument, asking your insurance company for the definition of a sports car is like asking your dog for the definition of food. Neither dogs nor insurance companies turn down a chance to swallow a little more.

-CW

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Sid the Squid Oct 14th, 2004 Link

After attempting to read through the first coupla of post, I began to feel a seriously thick lump in my throat…

So I thought…skim through, just thinking that it was the first ones that did it…the lump got heavier and thicker….

Either it's a very bad week for everyone or I've just been reminded why things can turn for the worse around here.

Just days ago, we were talking about issues with the steering column, and despite the troubles, it seemed like a good place to visit, hang my hat, and say Cheers!

The car has had problems in city driving as I've heard and experienced. Certain cars have had the stumble.

There might just be some good points in the article, which I'll go read and draw my on conclusions….but my gosh, the cruelty.

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Melanie Oct 15th, 2004 Link

All this discussion about the MCS ride has me wondering. I ordered an 05 Cabrio with the Sports package (which comes with 17 inch tires). Living in SF, the test driving was mostly around the city, with only a short stretch on the freeway. I got the MCS because even as a lesser car enthusiast than many of you guys, even I noticed a huge difference in how it responded when I punched out the lower gears. I commute 100 miles RT every day and now am wondering if the stiffer ride is going to be a problem. Would replacing the 17 inch RFs with 16 inch tires result in a somewhat “softer” ride? I like the other items in the Sport package, and would have gotten them all excepting the 17 inch tires. Of course, the package deal is such that you end up spending a chunk more money just to NOT have the 17 inch tires. Since it hasn't made it to production yet, any suggestions from the audience? I don't know if the dealer would break up the package and allow me to keep the 16 inch tires that are standard. Has anyone else tried that?

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Jason Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Kind of a tangent, but concerning automatic car washes, the '04 manual's preference is for cloth car washes.

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Rocketboy Oct 15th, 2004 Link

RB… Ya, I know it was used as an insult at one time, but it's also the first three letters, which makes it an oft used abbreviation. So I was just saying that it might have been used in such a way, with no intent of an insult.

Re: Winter Tires… Blizzacks unsafe in the winter? Only if you have no idea how to drive…

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Philip Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Melanie,

ask your dealer to replace the run-flat tires that come as a standard to non-run-flat tires. I did so and I'm very very pleased with the ride. I had to pay a very small premium for this but it's absolutely worth it.

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Gabe Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Philip is right (do they hae rough roads in Germany?) the first thing you will want to do is replace the runflats with regular tires. They will grip better, ride smoother, and be much cheaper.

If you're dealer won't do this you may want to check out the tirerack.com.

BTW I went from runflats and 16″ wheels to non-runflats 17″ and the ride actually improved.

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michael Boice Oct 15th, 2004 Link

…braking from 60-0 in 118' +/-, .87 skid pad, and slalom speeds approaching 70mph, 0-60 (S-Works) low 6's and quarter mile times in the mid 14's…I'ld call it a sports car. The are many 'sports cars' defined by clssic architecture that cannot compete with those numbers. A sports car is what a sports car does, or else, it is a fake. And, the S2000 is NOT very well buttoned down, especially at the limit…dull steering doesn't help.

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Andrew Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Hey, is there anyone with an MCS that ditched there runflats for regular tires? If so, what do you do for a spare? Carry a can of Fix-a-Flat?

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TJKonarski Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Jason: My '05 MCS convertible came with a Owners Manual on CD-ROM. It adamantly states “brushless” when I watch the segment on washing the car. However, I didn't need an Owners Manual to tell me that. Synthetic cloth spinning at a high speed is extremely abrasive. Especially when the dirt from all the cars before you has not been washed off, but instead, stays on that synthetic cloth making it even more abrasive. It's full of fine granules acting like sand paper on your glossy, shiny paint. For years I have washed my cars in a brushless car wash or by hand. And when by hand I ALWAYS use a 100% cotton terry cloth that can be put in the washing machine and completely rinsed of any granules and dirt. Note that I NEVER, EVER use a sponge — Again, it is made of synthetic materials (plastic with air bubbles injected inside) and it cannot be completely rinsed or washed out. All the dirt and granules burrow inside. Over time sponges also become the equivalent of sandpaper.

Bottom line: Always wash your cars in brushless car washes or by hand with 100% terry cloths. (Helpful hint: If you have a black car buy black terry cloth — It won't leave white lint on the paint.)

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GSKChicago Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Gabe… Any thought on doing a post where readers recommend their favorite car wash and give an address, etc so all others in and around those areas can benefit? If I'm being a dork, sorry.

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jarrett Oct 15th, 2004 Link

The comments about the sun roof are lame. I survived this summer in Louisiana 93 degree avg temps with 80%+ humidity. The sunroof actually cools the car by letting the excess heat out when

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Shazam Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Going through these comments I starting asking myself, what's the average age of this bunch, 16? You're not showing much confidence in your choice of automobiles, just like a teenager. I agree with David K., take it easy. The review in C and D was not a bad one by any means, a bad review is when the lead photo shows the subject car in front of a junkyard (don't laugh, said C and D mag. did that once back in the sixties, yes I'm that old). The point is, if you like the car, if it's fun to drive, if you enjoy owning it, who gives two shits if some wag in a car magizine makes a comment that you don't like. I'm going to order an '05 MCS (waiting for the LSD to become availible), and I'm going to be 58 my next b-day. Go motor, enjoy yourself!

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TJKonarski Oct 15th, 2004 Link

That's a bit hypocritical, Shazam. We responded with personal opinions to what C&D wrote. You responding to what we wrote is the same thing, really.

When something is printed in an international publication for everyone to be exposed to — and what is written is based more on opion than fact — it's bound to have reverberation that goes on and on.

However, the difference here on MotoringFile is that this is a small forum viewed mostly by a select group — The owner's of MINI's. C&D, on the other hand, is an international publication and is read by many more people in several countries and most of their readers probably have never had actual hands-on experience with a MINI.

So my point?… MotoringFile is a forum created for MINI owners by a MINI owner to debate, discuss, share, learn, teach, revel and enjoy. But also, it's a place where we can bitch and complain if we should see fit. It just goes with the territory.

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Jerry Bradbury Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Shaz: Right arm, citizen!

LSD is the only thing I wish I had. After I bump the kit to 210, the need will be even more urgent. But it won't retrofit on my '04 :-(

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Dami Oct 15th, 2004 Link

I'm telling ya, that John Philips dude just came off some big-a$$ american sedan with big-a$$ V8 or some other luxury car with lots of low-end torque to say that MINI is torpid and that ride is pathetic. Also, when I was reading articles for my girlfriends new 2004 Toyota Solara V6, some guy just fot off 2004 Audi R6 and (of course) he said that Solara sucked – “bad rebound car”, as he called it. Well of course, comparing a $21K car to whatm $60-70K? Suure it's cheaper made and less power and everything. So I guess it's same here.

We're all MINI fans here, otherwise we wouldn't reed the motoringfile.com, right? :) So we cut some slack for the car. Personally I tell everyone that the ride is too stiff and I hope some of it will go away when I replace tires next spring. Second, all the interior (trunk and back panel especially) scratches way too easy. Other than that, car is perfect.

And, I'm “working” on my economy mode now, shifting up at about 2K RPM, trying to keep 6th gear as long as possible. So far, I'm getting 35.1MPG on OBC right now (probably about 32MPB real) on my 2004 MCS!!

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Melanie Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Thanks for the comments, guys. I found a good resource to be the Morth American Motoring site, it has a ton of comments from drivers all over the world about “wheels and tyres”. From skimming a number of the posts, it seems that the majority of drivers ended up switching from run-flats to non-run flats, because 1) the ride improved without the stiff sidewalls of the RFs, 2) tire wear was better (tires lasted longer)and 3) non RFs were WAY cheaper to replace and easier to find in a pinch. In lieu of having a spare, many said they carry a can of Fix a Flat (and some even carry a compressor in addition).

Per my order form and website, it states that the 17 inch 5 spoke bullet wheels come with “performance” tires. No mention of them being run-flats. Does anyone know what brand of tires come with these wheels? Are they NON run-flats, as the website implies? If so, I am going to keep the 17 inch and go with them for a while, and if I still can't stand the bumps, change to 16 inch wheels. I have a feeling that the change to non RFs will be sufficient improvement, tho.

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Melanie Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Sorry, wrong site – the one I meant was the British-based Mini forum, http://www.mini2.com. If you click on “forum” on the bottom of the home page, there are tons of topics to read comments about.

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Gabe Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Here are my thoughts on runflats from a year ago: News Flash: Runflats are Harsh.

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Gabe Oct 15th, 2004 Link

I really don't see any problem with calling John Philips on these comments. Many of us don't agree with them and we're happy to explain why. How that's childish I don't know.

TJKonarski put it well… “MotoringFile is a forum created for MINI owners by a MINI owner to debate, discuss, share, learn, teach, revel and enjoy. But also, it's a place where we can bitch and complain if we should see fit.”

Of course we also strive to make it a place where opinions are welcome and where the environment is open to different ideas.

Oh and MotoringFile isn't a forum – it's a News site and/or Weblog :) Sorry just my little pet peeve :)

Anyway please carry on with the conversation….

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Michael S. Oct 15th, 2004 Link

Ack, must we tear John Phillips apart over one comment in the logbook? When you drive a car for 40,000 miles, you're bound to have some bad days and annoyances. Frankly, I find C/D to be one of the 'better' magazines that incorporate driving fun and automotive enthusiasm into their reviews.

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michael Boice Oct 16th, 2004 Link

HEY! Look at all the attention we're getting!

My basic problem with any car magazine testing vehicles is a lack of real comparison context; I've been thinking about this for a while too. A base line for the best vehicle (a moving target) needs to be established every year. The baseline should include objective and subjective information. Then, there needs to be some way for scaling any car's performance against the benchmark car. Optomistaclly thinking, then, comments and comparisons will be made along side the benchmark car eliminating, hopefully, rogue and untrue comments.

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Melanie Oct 16th, 2004 Link

Gabe, Thanks for directing me to that archive. Helpful info. Does anyone have any comments on which type of tire is worse with respect to tramlining? run-flats vs. non-RF?

BTW, this is OT – and hopefully not taken as a personal plug for eBay, which it isn't – BUT, if any of you size 10-feet guys want a pair of the Mini Motion driving shoe by PUMA, there were a pair just posted on Ebay for 93 bucks, buy-it-now (search under PUMA MINI COOPER). The same seller sold another pair last night, they got snapped up about an hour after posting!

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Gabe Oct 23rd, 2004 Link

A few posts were removed due to complaints about language etc.

Let's try to keep it clean gents…

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michael Oct 23rd, 2004 Link

Gabe -

No obsene language was used in any of my posts.

By 'language' I assume a user who goes by 'RB' on this board didn't like the first three letters of the word 'japanese' being used to describe the country of origin for an automobile. So much for freedom of expression. It's a commonly used term and wasn't meant to be slant.

Gimme a break…geez!

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