MINI to drop Toyota diesel in 2008

Tom May 17th, 2004 Link

Is there any information out there of MINI bringing the diesel engine to the line-up in the U.S.?

raven34 May 17th, 2004 Link

…swapping a Toyota motor for a Ford/Citroen motor? That's sounds kinda crazy to me. Cummins makes pretty good diesels (for Ford) but when was the last time your drove a Citroen with a great motor? Yikes…

Gabriel Bridger May 17th, 2004 Link

Citroen actually makes some of the best diesels made. MINI would be lucky to have one of them.

Frank May 17th, 2004 Link

I hear ya Gabe, but the problem is that French cars in general have a rather dismal reliability record in North America. French products have never been able to demonstrate any lasting dependability. The last new French car sold in the US was in the year 1993 and I believe was the Peugeot 405 sedan (The 505 series were not imported any longer after '93-'94).

I have been to Europe many times (Including France) and have seen first hand the current generation of French cars…Renaults, Citroens and Peugeots. Very nice vehicles and seem to hold their own against what Germany and Japan have to offer but still within the realm of Europe, French and Italian cars are more troublesome than its Germanic counterparts.

My point is this: The French have to once and for all prove themselves here. Their cars and powertrains need to be equal or better than anything else being sold in this market.

I have no confidence at this point in a BMW-PSA developed engine just because of this dubious quality precedent.

Peugeot was suppossed to be back in US shores this year…what ever happened to thier plans to come back to America???

sid the squid May 17th, 2004 Link

any info on a hybrid engine or something other than gasoline coming soon?

Josh May 17th, 2004 Link

37mpg isn't enough? There is no room for a hybrid electric motor and I wouldn't want to sacrifice performance. This car is supposed to be sporty and fun, if you want better milleage a Honda Insight may be more appropriate.

Gabriel Bridger May 17th, 2004 Link

A modern well engineered diesel (like those currently found in PSA cars) is more efficient, cheaper, and more powerful than gasoline hybrids. It's really a no-brainer for BMW.

sid the squid May 18th, 2004 Link

Wow, 37 mpg. What items were removed from the car to get that kinda mileage? =:o

On the highway, I don't recall getting anything better than 32mpg.

Any word on when a diesel will make it here?

elecbluemcs May 18th, 2004 Link

“raven34 / May 17, 2004 4:26 PM
…swapping a Toyota motor for a Ford/Citroen motor? That's sounds kinda crazy to me. Cummins makes pretty good diesels (for Ford) but when was the last time your drove a Citroen with a great motor? Yikes…”

Check out the link below. These are defintely the guys we want to help develop a diesel for the MINI. Navistar/International Engines build one of the most powerful, fuel efficient diesels on the market, for light duty trucks; they are the ones who build the Powerstroke Diesel for Ford not Cummins.

http://www.powerstrokedieselstuff.com/

dgszweda1 May 18th, 2004 Link

This is pretty old news. While the statement had not been directly made, the fact that the joint venture back in 2002 stated that a new line of petrol and diesel engines would be manufactured by BMW/PSA to be used in the Mini and other Peugot cars. What may be interesting is to see if these engines appear in the BMW 1-series. Either early on, or later.

I think generally speaking PSA makes some pretty good diesel engines. Obviously Toyota thinks so to, as they have entered into an agreement to jointly make diesel engines with PSA. I think that PSA gets slighted because in general Puegot and Citroen cars have historically been unreliable. Most of the unreliability has been centered around other aspects and not the engines.

Gabriel Bridger May 18th, 2004 Link

I don't recall them mentioning anything about diesel powerplants back when they made the general announcement but I have misssed it. Regardless this is the first specific mention I've seen.

dgszweda1 May 18th, 2004 Link

It appears that the BMW will be responsible for R&D and that PSA will be responsible for manufacturing and procurement. This interesting, and will be interesting to see what BMW designs. Also, these engines will be used in Peugot automobiles as well. So it looks like BMW is designing them for not only the BMW but also the Peugot. Also, I read a notice that these will not be used in the 1-series. So I take back my statement earlier.

With the close of their deal with Chrsyler, it looks like the Brazilian plant will be closed down.

Gabriel Bridger May 18th, 2004 Link

Here's an article with a bunch more info: More Next Generation.

Huw May 18th, 2004 Link

“37mpg isnt enough?”

Not in the UK it isn't! When you can have hot diesel hatches such as the Skoda Fabia VRS over here returning figures not far from 60mpg yet still pushing out 130bhp, a good diesel engine in the MINI would make all the difference. I test drove the MINI oneD before opting for the coop. The salesmen were even slating the engine…

Josh May 18th, 2004 Link

I like the idea of a deisel in the US, just not a hybrid.

JORGE RODRIGUEZ Mar 17th, 2005 Link

I WOULDLIKE TO SEE TOYOTA SELLING CARS-
WITH DIESEL MOTOR.BEST MILEAGE AND DURA
BILITY…THE BEST…

Nicolas Mar 24th, 2005 Link

Hi, for all those who think that europeans engines are less reliable than american ones, they are right.
But their spécific power often higher coz we are taxed (at least in belgium) depending to the volume and the power of the engine SO BAD.
fuel is 1,4 dollar a litre, and the annual tax for a large engine as a 5litres il 5100 dollar a year. and there are still other taxes to pay.

So yes, it does’nt last so long as your’s, but it’s cheaper to use, and more ecologic.
have you got volkswagen lupo in us?
it burns 3,4 litres diesel/100Km

Peter G Mar 30th, 2005 Link

All your comments on the above about PSA engines and reliability is just crap to say the least. If they are serviced every 10,000 kms as the manufacturer states then you will not have a problem. I have run a Citroen diesel to 600,000kms not a problem just regular servcing, a Peugeot 405 diesel, still have it now 1.2 million kilometres - has had 2 clutches but has NEVER let me down. I bought a brand new mini cooper in 2002, this was the most unreliable car I have ever owned and then to pay $760-00 for the first service - you must be joking. I say go Mini and get your PSA engine. I may think then about buying another Mini but until then forget it.

sheraz butt Apr 7th, 2005 Link

toyota diesel engines are the best
engines in the world.ILOVE DISEL ENGINES

geoffhill Apr 16th, 2005 Link

hi all,
if you are in the uk,you would want the peugot/citroen 1.4 td.70 mpg.cruise quietly at 90 mph.i currently have two peugots,one 2 litre hdi,one 1.4 litre hdi.they are fantastic engines.thats why they want it in the mini.geoff

Olie Apr 17th, 2005 Link

I need information regarding the fual pump in my 1983 Toyota pick-up. I am getting air some place after it leaves the filter.——- Olie

arnold Dec 30th, 2005 Link

Way to kill the post, Olie.

Tachyon Jun 26th, 2006 Link

International makes the Powerjoke for Ford, not Cummins.
And it’s a terrible engine. Poor performance, poor quality. Not the kind of people that BMW ought to sully their reputation with.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t work with VW or Mercedes who actually know how to build great diesels. Heck, even BMW themselves make some pretty good diesels.
As for PSA, they are certainly better than International, but why not go right to PSA and not FORD?

Tachyon

Will Jul 4th, 2006 Link

Well obviously BMW knows more about THEIR industry than some novice posting their opnion on the net. BMW would NOT go with Ford if they were crap, think about it. They have a reputation to keep. I have and know many people with the Ford Powerstroke, that Navistar/International helps produce that are way over the 5, 6, and 7 hundred thousand mile range with nothing wrong with them! I do not see toyota diesels in commercial applications like Ford!

Howard Fuller Sep 24th, 2006 Link

I had a Toyota diesel when I lived in Ireland and wish I could have bvrought it back to the USA with me. I would love to have my Prius eqipped with a diesel. To my thinking, a hybrid diesel would be the best of both worlds. Performance of the hybrid and better economy of the diesel.

Jiffy Pop Oct 21st, 2006 Link

Not to wreck the site,but..
Hino merged with Toyota in 1982. They produce
commercial vehicles. What heavy duty commercial diesel
does FORD produce in house?? AND WHO CARES.

Zaphod Nov 23rd, 2006 Link

To all those that asked about whether this or that diesel car is sold in US.

Diesels that we have in eu are not sold in us (whell they are sold, but limited vers-s and there is a major problem with this). One of the main reason is that in US diesel eng. is popular mainly among the business vehicles, and those are much larger diesels, and far less precise than what we know from TDI, HDI, TdCI etc (the whole common rail and pump nozzle technology range).

So basically you cannot buy refined enough diesel fuel in us on the gas stations in order to run your diesel family car safely (for the motor).

And BTW - yes, diesel is proven the better choice to me compared to the hybrid cars.
I drive diesel (a PSA one in a matter of fact), and it runs like hell - compared to same size petrol engine, and consumes some 4 to 5 litres fuel less in the city compared again with the petrol counterpart. On the high way the difference is less obvious though - about 3 ltrs less, all i mean liters on 100km. (sorry I cant convert it easily to mpg, but it makes some 55-60 on highways??)

Take care,
Zaphod

Jan Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I thought the states were getting the better diesel, considering there are more diesel cars on the market. (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/93338/article.html)
It’s just crazy that we can’t get more economical cars over here. Not everyone wants to drive a gas guzzler. It’s crazy to think that a car that gets 26mpg is consider great, when it’s counterpart diesel engine can get up to 50mpg.

I also read somewhere that Mini can’t sell their diesel models in the states because of the Yaris…
Maybe another reason why they are changing manufactures?

Anyway, does anyone know how a gringo can buy a diesel and have it shipped here?

Robert Miller Jan 25th, 2007 Link

The Ford/Peugot/Citreon alliance is the best technical effort in diesel technology today. They are casting their engines with compacted graphic iron- a dramatically stronger material than grey iron. The casting control and matierals mixture has to be extroadinarily precise- its managed by a Swedish firm and implemented by Tupy foundry in Brazil. Standard machine tools will not machine compacted graphitic iron- you need the same rotary machining tools developed for milling titanium.

The engines are being finished (final machining) by Ford in England. So the opportunity for French fuckups are somewhat diminished. The specific power output, per kilogram and per displacement, of these diesel engines is unrivaled. Finally, Honda and Toyota have pursued aluminum/silicon engines- their present designs have maxed out their materials limits; at a level below that which can be acheived from CGI Iron blocks.

Tom Beck Mar 30th, 2007 Link

I drove a four door ford fiesta powered by a 1.6L turbodiesel in France recently and averaged 55 mpg in mixed city, highway, mountain driving over a two week period. The 5 speed it had was quite adequate, and the car had plenty of power to stay up with traffic or go up hills. If Mini ever sells a car in the US with that kind of set up I will beat a path to their door with checkbook in hand. I would prefer that over a hybrid.

Morry Korman Apr 9th, 2007 Link

I bought a new VW Rabbit diesel in 1970 and drove it 115,000 miles. No problems. Got 47 mph average over the 115,000 mile that I drove it. I would buy one again if available here in California. I am waiting for the new diesels that reportedly will be available in California in 2008 and 2009. I hope that Honda and Toyota are among them!